For Whom Did Jesus Christ Die To Atone?

[Mr GLee]

The 37 'books' of the Hebrew Scripture of Law, Psalms, and Prophets says the Promised Deliverer, Redeemer, Savior, and King died for the children of Israel.
He was prophesied in the Torah:

15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Deut. 18:15.

18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. Deut. 18:17–18.

I would offer,

Just like he empowered Moses to signify our invisible head God Developing the priest hood of believers. sending out the apostle' Aaron to preach to all the nations.

A parable of the propmised three days and nights demonstration of the invisible head our Holy Father and the Son of man.

The Father bruising his heel crushing the head of the serpent the father of lies

The Holy Father working in the Son of man Jesus strengthening him to do His will . The prophet that all other prophets, prophesied of

Introducing the new kingdom of priests men and women prophets declaring the gospel from all the nations of the world after Judah to represent the church and not Levi the letter of taw (death) .

Exodus 7:1-3King James Version7 And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

The ministry of two working as one .Two, the one witness God has spoke .

 

[Arial]

If God wanted to atone for the sins of Gentiles, the time to pray for them was right here and now (Jn. 17.) But Jesus did not do that which continued to leave Gentiles without a prayer and without atonement.

You misidentify those who God gave Him. See how a wrong premise leads to an inability to interpret scripture correctly? YOu view has a Bible full of contradictions and totally unreliable. But you go right ahead and think that you are saved becasue somewhere in you ancient blood line you carry the DNA of Isaac.

These are those God gave to the Son.
Romans 8:29-30 For those he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those who he justified he also glorified.

You have already been shown that Gentiles have the same salvation through the same One and the same means, as Jews. That is precisely why it is called a New Covenant. It is not only with national Israel and Hebrews, but with all nations of the world.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Why don't you put that into the context of the whole chapter of Gal.? Do you not have a good study Bible that in chapter prefaces and footnotes gives the date and occasion of the writing, so you don't have to blindly guess who the writer is writing to and why. So you don't arrive at doctrines and ideas from a couple of scriptures isolated from all other parts of the letter, even the purpose of the letter?

And though you did not actually address what I asked you to in Eph 2, only pretended to but presented nothing but any number of fallacies, not the least of which was utter avoidance of presenting the meaning of those passages, and steering things a different direction, I will answer this one. In order to prove your sincerity in and out of respect I will ask again in a different way. Eph 2:11-22. Read it, study it at least a little, and then tell me in your own words what it says.

Galatians is written to a Gentile audience. There were no doubt some Jews present in the churches in Galatia, but the letter is aimed at Gentiles. Otherwise there would be no reason for Paul to be saying the things he said. It was written to address and answer specific problems in particular churches. This is important in understanding the epistle. Not long after the Galatians had accepted the gospel, agitators came in. They attacked Paul personally (4:17) and preached a distorted form of the gospel (1:6-7). Their gospel required circumcision for salvation (6:12). This is internal evidence that the audience was Gentile or they would have already been circumcised. It is likely they were attempting to convert these Gentiles to to Judaism under increasing pressure from nationalistic Jewish groups. According to Josephus (external source) the Jewish people were becoming increasingly intolerant of contact between Jews and Gentiles during the last half of the first century. (Sound like anyone you know?)

In chapters 1 and 2 Paul is defending himself against the accusations made against him. In chapter 3 he begins to denounce this perverted gospel that was being preached and proclaim that all, both Jew and Gentile are justified before God in only one way. Through faith in Christ, nothing added. ANd this is what he says in 3:19-29


19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. 20 Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.

21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave[a] nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

Do you really think that a few sentences later he contracted himself? So it is not only those who were born under the Law who are redeemed, for everyone is under the same curse of the Law, whether they were born into the Law or not.

"Under the same curse of the Law"? You mean the "curse of the Law" God says instructs in righteousness in 2 Tim. 3:16-17? That curse?
No, it is a "curse of the Law" for anyone who is an unborn-again person (unconverted) and in the flesh that tries to obey the Law externally in order to be righteous before God. It's impossible. That's why the "letter" kills.
But a born-again person is converted and not only has a new human spirit created for them but the Spirit of God dwells within that person. In other words, the Law was type and shadow of the Holy Spirit. That's why the Law killed and was a "curse." The spirit will always overcome or kill flesh. But once a person becomes born again, they are converted to a spiritual existence and the Law (Holy Spirit) now dwells within the spiritual person and the Law now guides, instructs, commands the believer from within and no more from without as the Law written on stone once did.

Why is it when you post a Scripture that it is sufficient, but when I post a Scripture, you refer to the whole chapter that I need to consider. Never mind.

Saul clearly states unequivocally that Christ came to redeem those that were under the Law, or under the Mosaic Covenant, that is, the children of Israel. Every one of them. Saul also says, "all Israel shall be saved" meaning everyone who is Hebrew and in the Abrahamic and Mosaic Covenants. The high priest killed the sacrifice yearly to atone for the sins of the people in covenant. There was no "accept Jesus into your heart" or "believe in your heart and confess with your mouth" in the Mosaic Covenant. But once the sacrifice was made Moses/.Aaron/high priest sprinkle the people with the blood in total. Just as the atonement that belongs to the children of Israel under the Mosaic Covenant, Jesus died to atone permanently for the sins of the people He came to save: His people (Matt. 1:21.)

The whole context of the Scripture from Genesis to Revelation is a revelation of God to the Hebrews. It is their history and their culture and their Messiah and Redeemer. Gentiles (non-Hebrews) are a necessary inclusion and only documents the Hebrews interaction with them but there is no covenant God has with Gentiles (non-Hebrews.) None. Nor does Jesus as High Priest "pray for the world (of non-Hebrews.) Actually, throughout Hebrew history God is at war with non-Hebrews (Gentiles) and at opportune times destroys them from out of the land or destroys them within their own encampments as God did with 185,000 Assyrians in one night. God uses non-Hebrews (Gentiles) to punish His people the Hebrews and when this is complete destroys those He used to attack His people. It's repetitive.

There was no "perverted" gospel being preached to the Jews/Jewish Christians because the Torah of God is NOT "perverted." And that was the "another gospel" that Judaizers were attempting to bring Jewish Christians back under: Judaism and circumcision. But to do that was "impossible" I(Heb. 6.) Returning to Judaism after becoming born-again just because the Jewish Christians were being persecuted first by the Jews and later by the Romans is impossible. As long as you interpret Matthew to Revelation as written to Gentiles you will not come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[jeremiah1five]

It does not say sent to Jews in Gentile lands, but to the Gentiles. And it is the gospel that was sent, not "Messiah had come," You show that you do not even know what the gospel is, and you do not know why Christ went to the cross or who He died for, that you do not know what the promise is, or that if there is a promise made by God, then there is a covenant. And yet here you are, claiming revelation by God and preaching against His word.

I am not going to bother with the rest of this post point by point. You are just repeating yourself, repeating your gross heresy, except to say that you also don't know what theology is. It is not the law. It is the study of God----something you do not even bother with.

Jesus is the Hebrew Messiah. The Hebrews were scattered throughout Gentile lands. Only a remnant of Jews returned to Israel. The majority remained in Gentile lands. Since Jesus is the Hebrew Messiah and Messiah had come and Gone God needed to let His people know this and the only way was sending messengers with a simple message: Your Promise Messiah had come, and God as always keeps His Promises.
So, let's leave God to His Chosen people and the apple of His eye to their Messiah and Gentiles need to stop stealing their covenants, their prophets and their prophecies, and their blessings and stop trying to steal THEIR inheritance.
It doesn't belong to Gentiles. Never has and never will.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Complete fabrication with no regard to God's word whatsoever.

Why do you use it then?

The ten commandments. The written Law given by Moses is simply expansion of them regarding the life and behavior of man towards God, man towards creation itself, man towards man, with boundaries set for the purpose of instruction in righteousness. They were to be different from the many god worshipers and amoral nations around them, and a witness to them.

That is not all He taught the Jews, not by a long shot. Guess you were absent on those days. The New Covenant is not a fulfillment of the Law, Jesus is. He fulfilled all righteousness that is encased in the Law, in order to be the substitute for sinners in His suffering and death, and not for Jews only, but for the whole world---meaning all the world, not all people without exception.

That post completely opposed the scripture that was given, Romans 9:22-26, and you did it without batting an eye or a twinge of conscience?

Do you know that? Why were they kicked out of the synagogues and being accused of preaching against the Law?

It is theory because it has been proven to be unsupportable by Scripture.

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth
the adoption,
and the glory,
and the covenants,
and the giving of the law,
and the service of God,
and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom. 9:4–5.

None of these things listed above are ever given to Gentiles (non-Hebrews.)


4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal. 4:3–5.

I know you've been raised on Constantinian Gentile theology that excluded the children of Israel and separated them from their covenants, their glory, their inheritance, etc., and you see the Hebrew Scriptures with a Gentile (non-Hebrew) perspective although all of Scripture is an history of the Hebrew people and their relationship with the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and that everything having to do with salvation is OF THE JEWS, but in time I know from God that will all change and one day yet future it will be Gentiles that will be blinded and when God turns His full attention back on His Chosen people this will cause a hatred and jealousy on the Gentiles (non-Hebrews) that will culminate on their joining the Gentile nations and attack Israel, but Christ returns to the mount
of Olives and from there joins with His people and beats back everyone God has caused to attack His people and will destroy them with the breath of His mouth and a two-edged sword in His hand. The armies of heaven will accompany Him and there will be a massacre beyond anything ever recorded in history of warfare and when the dust clears only Israel of twelve tribes will be left standing. Doesn't that excite you that Israel will finally destroy all her enemies? It excites me and I can hardly wait. I pray for that and for the peace for Jerusalem that will finally come about after Christ returns.
I support Israel.
No matter what they do.
And that's because everything taking place in the world is between God and His Chosen people and Gentiles (non-Hebrews) are NOT His Chosen people.

 

[Arial]

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth
the adoption,
and the glory,
and the covenants,
and the giving of the law,
and the service of God,
and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom. 9:4–5.

None of these things listed above are ever given to Gentiles (non-Hebrews.)

Not in the OT but that is not the end of the story. It is a progression of redemption. And all those things did not provide redemption, it established a relationship and a mission.

But why stop there. Let's continue. Verse 6-8 which immediately follows verses 4-5 and begins a conversation about God's sovereign election of who would be the Seed bearer of the Redeemer. But it is not as though the word of God has failed. Dr ot all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named." This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
Paul then expounds of that idea of the offspring of the promise using the children of Isaac and Rebekah, choosing not Esau, who is also a son of the flesh of Isaac, to Jacob, who we know is the one who fathers Judah. And of all the twelve sons of Jacob, descendants according to the flesh of the same Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, is the one who carries the seed of the promise. Though there are many promises given, this supreme promise to which all else in the story of redemption points and moves towards, is the one in Gen 3. It was said again to Abraham, in addition to the promise of possessing the land. "In you all the nations will be blessed." Righteousness counted as faith, faith in Christ counted as righteousness, Jesus the one who fulfilled all the righteousness of the Mosaic Law. And this is the promise Paul is referring to.

We know this to be the case, as in verses 19-26, Paul says this:





19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? 25 As indeed he says in Hosea,

“Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’
and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’”
26 “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”



30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness[d] did not succeed in reaching that law. 32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33 as it is written,

“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense;
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

You are stumbling over the same stumbling stone.

 

[Arial]

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal. 4:3–5.

I already addressed this. Post #34.

I know you've been raised on Constantinian Gentile theology that excluded the children of Israel and separated them from their covenants, their glory, their inheritance, etc., and you see the Hebrew Scriptures with a Gentile (non-Hebrew) perspective

You know absolutely wrong and you do not even know ME so don't presume what cannot know and call it what you do know. There is no such thing as Constantinian Gentile theology. If you mean the teachings and doctrines (not theology) of the RCC, I have never been inside a Catholic church, or been a student and follower of their teachings. I was born centuries after the reign of Constantine.

I have never excluded the children of Israel, have never separated them from their glory ( which is questionable given history. Their glory was not in them but in God who chose them.) Have never separated them from their covenants or thier inheritance. And I do not see the OT or the Law, or God's covenant with Israel from a non Hebrew perspective. I understand it for what it is. A very important chapter in God's plan of redemption. I see its purpose and I see where it led, and what it accomplished---for all His creation. I don't separate it from any other part of the Scriptures, but see the whole that begins with Gen 1 and the promise of redemption given in Gen 3. All of which are covenants btw, even "In the beginning GOD---".

although all of Scripture is an history of the Hebrew people and their relationship with the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and that everything having to do with salvation is OF THE JEWS,

How about the part before there were any "Jews?" Salvation is of the Jews---for a reason and it has nothing to do with DNA, or ethnicity---but it is not only for the Jews. Where is God in all your determining these things you say? No where. It is all about man, from beginning to end. The glory of man, and only a certain ethnic group.

but in time I know from God that will all change and one day yet future it will be Gentiles that will be blinded and when God turns His full attention back on His Chosen people this will cause a hatred and jealousy on the Gentiles (non-Hebrews) that will culminate on their joining the Gentile nations and attack Israel, but Christ returns to the mount
of Olives and from there joins with His people and beats back everyone God has caused to attack His people and will destroy them with the breath of His mouth and a two-edged sword in His hand.

You need to calm down, take a breath, and shorten your sentences. And stop shaking your fist at God for not being a bigot. God does not destroy those He places in Christ, and the epistles are all directed at those who are in Christ---believers----whether they be Jewish or non-Jewish. Whether they live in Israel (better make your plane reservations) or China, or NYC. Just as the Scriptures declare, and you have been shown. It is that you have been shown, and yet still present such anti-Christ drivel that I say you are shaking your fist at God.

The armies of heaven will accompany Him and there will be a massacre beyond anything ever recorded in history of warfare and when the dust clears only Israel of twelve tribes will be left standing. Doesn't that excite you that Israel will finally destroy all her enemies? It excites me and I can hardly wait. I pray for that and for the peace for Jerusalem that will finally come about after Christ returns.

That anyone would be excited by a massacre of non-Jew Christians, or a massacre of any sort, shows a deep and ugly, (dare I say psychopathic) disregard for life, especially human life. Sick, sick, sick, at it is likely to get you knocked off the forum, if you don't stop saying things like that.

 

[Arial]

but in time I know from God that will all change and one day yet future it will be Gentiles that will be blinded and when God turns His full attention back on His Chosen people this will cause a hatred and jealousy on the Gentiles (non-Hebrews) that will culminate on their joining the Gentile nations and attack Israel, but Christ returns to the mount
of Olives and from there joins with His people and beats back everyone God has caused to attack His people and will destroy them with the breath of His mouth and a two-edged sword in His hand. The armies of heaven will accompany Him and there will be a massacre beyond anything ever recorded in history of warfare and when the dust clears only Israel of twelve tribes will be left standing. Doesn't that excite you that Israel will finally destroy all her enemies? It excites me and I can hardly wait. I pray for that and for the peace for Jerusalem that will finally come about after Christ returns.

The audacity and arrogance of saying God told you those things! It is assuming that whatever you think is what God tells you. That God is the same as you. But what you say here, and attaching this massacre to non-Jewish believers is against what God has to say in His word. And that you have been shown.

And to be excited about it and look forward to it is to be without a speck of mercy. Chistian's, Jewish and non Jewish alike take no more delight in the destruction of the wicked (and it is the wicked, the non-believers, the servants of Satan, who will be destroyed)than God does. It gives them great angst and sorrow for those who are lost.

James 2:13-15 So you must show mercy to others, or God will not show mercy to you when he judges you But the person who shows mercy can stand without fear at the judgement.

Matt 5:7 Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.

 

[Arial]

Jesus is the Hebrew Messiah. The Hebrews were scattered throughout Gentile lands. Only a remnant of Jews returned to Israel. The majority remained in Gentile lands. Since Jesus is the Hebrew Messiah and Messiah had come and Gone God needed to let His people know this and the only way was sending messengers with a simple message: Your Promise Messiah had come, and God as always keeps His Promises.
So, let's leave God to His Chosen people and the apple of His eye to their Messiah and Gentiles need to stop stealing their covenants, their prophets and their prophecies, and their blessings and stop trying to steal THEIR inheritance.
It doesn't belong to Gentiles. Never has and never will.

You keep forgetting or ignoring the most important ingredient in the promises made to Abraham. "In your offspring all nations will be blessed." And you do not know or refuse to accept that that offspring is Christ---the one that would crush the serpent's head. And that Christ's victory was in His death. Why?

Because on the cross He was taking sins full punishment, something required by a just God who declared that the penalty for sin is death. And this death is not only a physical death, but an eternal one, with no hope of ever having God dwell them. Alienated from Him forever. At enmity with Him forever. So Jesus stood in the place of those who God was giving Him (John 6), a substitute, as a ransom. He bore their sins on His body and died their death. But He was raised to life, for there was no sin in Him. The just penalty for sin was paid, for the whole world, Scripture tells us. And obviously that does not mean every person without exception, so it means every place in the world, not just Israel. Since the penalty has been paid for those whom God gives to Him, and did so before the foundation of the world (a covenant with Father, Son, Holy Spirit, before God ever spoke the words "Let there be---." sin and death have no more power over them than they did over Jesus. He can no longer be condemned. He wears the robes, not of his own righteousness, but that of Christ's perfect righteousness. Messiah is true Israel, spiritual Israel, the people of God. Christ kept the Mosaic covenant, and is the only one who could.

Restored righteousness is the goal of redemption, not real estate, or genetic, etnic, components.

Gentiles are not stealing anything from anyone. The old covenant is obsolete, and that does not mean Jews have no covenant and no promises. It means the new covenant---which as Hebrews says means the old is no longer in effect----is now a covenant not with national Israel and the natural descendants of Abraham only, but with all nations. Just as was promised to Abraham. Salvation never did come through the Law. That is why the priests died and were replaced, and the sacrifice of atonement made year by year, (Hebrews). Salvation unto eternal life, the unrighteous made righteous through faith, and God again dwelling with mankind, comes only through the person and work of Christ. So you are wrong in your stance on why Messiah came.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Not in the OT but that is not the end of the story. It is a progression of redemption. And all those things did not provide redemption, it established a relationship and a mission.

But why stop there. Let's continue. Verse 6-8 which immediately follows verses 4-5 and begins a conversation about God's sovereign election of who would be the Seed bearer of the Redeemer. But it is not as though the word of God has failed. Dr ot all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named." This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
Paul then expounds of that idea of the offspring of the promise using the children of Isaac and Rebekah, choosing not Esau, who is also a son of the flesh of Isaac, to Jacob, who we know is the one who fathers Judah. And of all the twelve sons of Jacob, descendants according to the flesh of the same Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, is the one who carries the seed of the promise. Though there are many promises given, this supreme promise to which all else in the story of redemption points and moves towards, is the one in Gen 3. It was said again to Abraham, in addition to the promise of possessing the land. "In you all the nations will be blessed." Righteousness counted as faith, faith in Christ counted as righteousness, Jesus the one who fulfilled all the righteousness of the Mosaic Law. And this is the promise Paul is referring to.

We know this to be the case, as in verses 19-26, Paul says this:





19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? 25 As indeed he says in Hosea,

“Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’
and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’”
26 “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”



30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness[d] did not succeed in reaching that law. 32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33 as it is written,

“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense;
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

You are stumbling over the same stumbling stone.

Yes, there is always a twist, an interpretation, to use in order to reject what has been written and to make excuses for not obeying what is clearly written.

Given that the Samaritans were as half-Jew and half-Gentile they were still the seed of Abraham and STILL in the Abrahamic Covenant, required to obedience to the Mosaic Covenant, and eventually redeemed under the New Covenant which is the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled. The Last Supper for Christ was the first Passover meal for me. A new and living way as the mystery hid in the past is revealed to me today which is Christ in me.
So, are they REALLY Gentiles? Or are they some mix of Hebrew DNA and Gentile DNA since the northern kingdom was conquered and scattered and the southern kingdom was conquered and scattered and whether through intermarriage, rape, concubinage, or slavery the fact remains no matter what Saul or any of the other apostles may say, the Abrahamic Covenant is with his seed, and if one presumed Gentile has any Abrahamic DNA in them they are still in covenant with God.
So, check you ancestry. God keeps His promise to Abraham and to his seed.
And there was one more conquering and scattering. The Romans. I'd say it is reasonable that any presumed Gentiles who are born-again and saved just might have Abraham's seed in them somewhere in their family lines.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You keep forgetting or ignoring the most important ingredient in the promises made to Abraham. "In your offspring all nations will be blessed." And you do not know or refuse to accept that that offspring is Christ---the one that would crush the serpent's head. And that Christ's victory was in His death. Why?

Because on the cross He was taking sins full punishment, something required by a just God who declared that the penalty for sin is death. And this death is not only a physical death, but an eternal one, with no hope of ever having God dwell them. Alienated from Him forever. At enmity with Him forever. So Jesus stood in the place of those who God was giving Him (John 6), a substitute, as a ransom. He bore their sins on His body and died their death. But He was raised to life, for there was no sin in Him. The just penalty for sin was paid, for the whole world, Scripture tells us. And obviously that does not mean every person without exception, so it means every place in the world, not just Israel. Since the penalty has been paid for those whom God gives to Him, and did so before the foundation of the world (a covenant with Father, Son, Holy Spirit, before God ever spoke the words "Let there be---." sin and death have no more power over them than they did over Jesus. He can no longer be condemned. He wears the robes, not of his own righteousness, but that of Christ's perfect righteousness. Messiah is true Israel, spiritual Israel, the people of God. Christ kept the Mosaic covenant, and is the only one who could.

Restored righteousness is the goal of redemption, not real estate, or genetic, etnic, components.

Gentiles are not stealing anything from anyone. The old covenant is obsolete, and that does not mean Jews have no covenant and no promises. It means the new covenant---which as Hebrews says means the old is no longer in effect----is now a covenant not with national Israel and the natural descendants of Abraham only, but with all nations. Just as was promised to Abraham. Salvation never did come through the Law. That is why the priests died and were replaced, and the sacrifice of atonement made year by year, (Hebrews). Salvation unto eternal life, the unrighteous made righteous through faith, and God again dwelling with mankind, comes only through the person and work of Christ. So you are wrong in your stance on why Messiah came.

Gentiles (non-Hebrew) do not come "out of thee" (Abraham.)
There is Ishmael and Esau to consider as eventual nations and kings that DO "come out of thee."

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Gen. 17:5–6.

Gentiles do not come out of Abraham.
They came out of Ham and Japheth. They were solid non-Hebrew Gentiles.
But we're talking about a people that "come out of thee" (Abraham.)

 

[jeremiah1five]

Sick, sick, sick, at it is likely to get you knocked off the forum, if you don't stop saying things like that.

What are you? Woke? It's OK for Gentiles to say things against the Jews but when one stands up for Israel and has the Scripture to back me up you're ready to cancel me?

You want to cover the Scripture on the final destination of Gentiles? Post it.

 

[Arial]

What are you? Woke? It's OK for Gentiles to say things against the Jews but when one stands up for Israel and has the Scripture to back me up you're ready to cancel me?

You want to cover the Scripture on the final destination of Gentiles? Post it.

No one is saying anything against the Jews on the forum and if they said the things about Jews that you say about non-Jewish believers, they would meet the same response. No one is expressing an excitement and delight that someday God will slaughter all the Jews and certainly not Jewish believers. WHich is what prompted my statement and which you leave out of the quote. There is no need to say things like what you said and my position on this matter has nothing to do with the concept of being "woke."

 

[Arial]

Gentiles (non-Hebrew) do not come "out of thee" (Abraham.)
There is Ishmael and Esau to consider as eventual nations and kings that DO "come out of thee."

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Gen. 17:5–6.

Gentiles do not come out of Abraham.
They came out of Ham and Japheth. They were solid non-Hebrew Gentiles.
But we're talking about a people that "come out of thee" (Abraham.)

God also promised Abraham that all nations would be BLESSED through Abraham's offspring. And Paul clearly states what that means, which you still ignore even though it has been put in front of your face a number of times. Esau btw was just as "Hebrew" as Jacob was. So was Ishmael.

Hebrew originally did not even have a genetic component to its meaning, but had to do with a people who worshiped one God. Pagan, Gentile a people who worshiped many gods. So you see, even from the beginning God and His purpose in redemption was at the center of all that came to pass in history, just as He still is and always will be.

There is no such thing as a Gentile believer. Or Gentile Christians as you call them. Gentiles in the NT simple refers to nations that worshiped many God's----pagans in the OT. And it it true, and I have never said otherwise, that God did not covenant with them in the OT. His purpose in covenanting with one nation---a nation that did not exist until HE created it----was to reveal Himself to them as the one true living and sovereign God---sovereign over all creation. The nations---and Israel too eventually, who came out of over 400 years immersed in pagan beliefs and practices----had a god for every aspect of creation and life.

And His purpose of one nation with a covenant (personal) relationship with this one true and living and sovereign God, was to reveal Himself through them to the whole world. It had nothing to do with DNA, other than through the offspring of Abraham would come the One who would redeem the whole world from its apostate condition. That is why, when they failed miserably, God scattered them among the nations. It was both a judgement and grace---but not for them only.

So to use the term Gentile Christian is an oxymoron. And to use the term Jewish Christian simply means one of genetic Jewish descent who also has put their faith in Christ and not the Law and not in their DNA. A Gentile is not properly understood as simply meaning non-Jewish. Dispensationalists always fail in this. In the Bible, Gentiles and the OT word pagans, are those who do not worship the one true and living and sovereign God. After the death, resurrection, and ascension, they are the ones who reject Christ by not placing their faith in Him and His work of redemption. GOd has no covenant with an unbelieving Jew, and He has no covenant with an unbelieving non-Jew. He has a covenant (family relationship) with all who are members of His household---the house of Judah, which is the house of Christ. Not through DNA but through faith. He is their Father, and they are His children---just as Jesus taught, and as Paul makes absolutely clear. To say it does not matter what Paul said is to deny Christ. It was Christ who taught him and Christ who sent him to take this gospel to unbelievers, that they might hear it and believe,no matter what their DNA is.

 

[Arial]

Yes, there is always a twist, an interpretation, to use in order to reject what has been written and to make excuses for not obeying what is clearly written.

True, and you really should stop doing that.

A new and living way as the mystery hid in the past is revealed to me today which is Christ in me.
So, are they REALLY Gentiles? Or are they some mix of Hebrew DNA and Gentile DNA since the northern kingdom was conquered and scattered and the southern kingdom was conquered and scattered and whether through intermarriage, rape, concubinage, or slavery the fact remains no matter what Saul or any of the other apostles may say, the Abrahamic Covenant is with his seed, and if one presumed Gentile has any Abrahamic DNA in them they are still in covenant with God.

So now even the apostles must take a back seat to you and the utter nonsense of the above. Praise God for MY DNA!! Even though I cannot trace my heritage past Scotland, I must be have the DNA of Abraham and that is why have placed my faith in Christ!

Do you realize that Lot had the DNA of Abraham, as did Ishmael, Esau, and all the others you name as non-Hebrews?

I'd say it is reasonable that any presumed Gentiles who are born-again and saved just might have Abraham's seed in them somewhere in their family lines.

That is your idea of reasonable? See above.

 

[jeremiah1five]

No one is saying anything against the Jews on the forum and if they said the things about Jews that you say about Gentiles,they would meet the same response. There is no need to say things like what you said and my position on this matter has nothing to do with the concept of being "woke."

Let's be precise and clear as to what is really happening.
God does not lie. God cannot lie.
The Old Testament describes God's relationship with only one people: the Hebrews. The Old Testament is God's testimony of Himself and His relationship with this one people. God may address the peripherals such as non-Hebrews (Gentiles) and their interaction with the Hebrews, but the 37 'books' of the Old Testament are God's testimony of this people of whom He has covenant. To contradict what God has said in these 37 'books' of what we can call Hebrew history is to oppose God and in opposing God it is also opposition to what God has revealed concerning this people, and that His that Israel is His "Bride," His "Church," His holy people, and the apple of His eye.
The gospels are the continued testimony of God and His acts to redeem and save this people of whom He has covenant, and Saul's letter, Peter's letters, James' letters, and the rest of the New Covenant writings also known as the New Testament record spiritual Israel's attempts at searching the Old Testament in order to understand the New Covenant era of which Jesus Christ fulfilled the Mosaic Covenant and in doing so has taken the Hebrews into a new era in which He is the focal point of a transformative new relationship God has initiated with the Hebrews in accordance with the Scriptures.
So, to disbelieve or to contradict God's revelation of Himself and the relationship with He has with the Hebrews is to call God a liar. It is to speak against what God has done throughout human history to come to this one mystery which has been revealed, and that is, Christ (God) "in you" meaning the Hebrew people. The Old Testament is a record of God preparing Himself to meet His people, and the New Testament is a record of the preparation of God's people to meet Him. There is nothing else beyond this truth and the facts from Scripture from Genesis to Revelations that support the acts of God in fulfilling his Promise to Abraham and the children of Jacob/Israel that is more important let alone more evidenced than what God has done to and for this covenant people. Non-Hebrews (Gentiles) cannot claim what God has given to the Hebrews and though it appears as though Gentiles have stolen everything since the destruction of the Second Jewish Temple such theft will not finally succeed as God brings all human history to a close in the extremely near future and beyond.

I have said nothing that cannot be found in Scripture. And if I have it is only reasonable conclusions based upon the knowledge that God in this present day has chosen to reveal in the discussion of His Word and the things present God is doing in the world today. We are not at the end, but we are coming close upon that day, and as we do so, more and more of God's truth and our understanding of Scripture comes to light as He chooses to reveal it and to whom He chooses to reveal it to, we will only find a conclusion of everything God has promised the Hebrews and we will also come to understand the role non-Hebrews (Gentiles) have in relationship to those things yet future which are given to Israel.

The Scripture records Israel's Messiah coming to Israel the first time, and leaving with a message to all the twelve tribes of Israel sent to them of men to a people living scattered throughout Gentile lands this one message: Messiah had come, and God has kept His promise(s), and when I come again it will be to receive all Israel to Myself.
The Abrahamic Covenant is between God and Abraham and to his seed.
The Mosaic Covenant is between God and Abraham's seed, a people also known as the children of Jacob/Israel.
The New Covenant is between God and the total twelve tribes identified as the House of Israel (northern kingdom), and the House of Judah (southern kingdom.) I find no covenant between God and non-Hebrews (Gentiles.) As High Priest about to sacrifice Himself He prays for the children of Israel known as "them" in John 17, but He doesn't pray nor sacrifice Himself with the world of non-Hebrews (Gentiles), for if Gentiles were to be saved then the time to pray for this group of millions of people would be right then and there. But Messiah as High Priest doesn't do this, and Gentiles are left without sacrifice and without a prayer - unsanctified. When Jesus says, Father, forgive them" the "them" are identified in John 17 as those the Father has given the Son, and that dowry are a people called the children of Israel who are the children of Jacob who is the child of Isaac who is a son of Abraham. A Marriage and Supper is prophesied, and that prophecy belongs to Israel.
So, what's indicated?
Only the conclusion.

The conclusion that God has covenant with Abraham and NONE with Gentiles (non-Hebrew) and yet for at least 1900 years Gentiles have been born again and given the Holy Spirit of Promise that was promised to Israel. Since God has no covenant with Gentiles the only reasonable conclusion is that these Gentiles by virtue of God's covenant with Abraham MUST have Hebrew, Abrahamic DNA in their family ancestry, and ancestry that would require Hebrew lineage no matter the amount of dilution of Abraham's seed through intermarriages in human history. Three times God has scattered the Hebrews to the four winds and into Gentile lands of Ham and Japheth. It is not unreasonable to conclude that so-called and presumed Gentiles of recent past and today that have become born again MUST by virtue of God's unbroken promises that Hebrew blood MUST in their ancestry and be the only conclusion as to why they are saved. And I see the Samaritans as 'type and shadow' of this reality.

A couple of months ago I posted a question asking, "How far can 'you' trace your family line" and this was in preparation to bring out finally - and yes, to test - what I believe God has revealed to me and those things I have posted on. And although I realize such conclusions cannot be proved I also acknowledge they cannot be disproved. And so here I stand. God help me.

 

[Arial]

Let's be precise and clear as to what is really happening.
God does not lie. God cannot lie.
The Old Testament describes God's relationship with only one people: the Hebrews. The Old Testament is God's testimony of Himself and His relationship with this one people. God may address the peripherals such as non-Hebrews (Gentiles) and their interaction with the Hebrews, but the 37 'books' of the Old Testament are God's testimony of this people of whom He has covenant. To contradict what God has said in these 37 'books' of what we can call Hebrew history is to oppose God and in opposing God it is also opposition to what God has revealed concerning this people, and that His that Israel is His "Bride," His "Church," His holy people, and the apple of His eye.

Even though this has nothing whatsoever to do with the post of mine that you quote, I will respond to this moving the goal post, false dichotomy, strawman: No one, not even me, has denied any of that.

The gospels are the continued testimony of God and His acts to redeem and save this people of whom He has covenant, and Saul's letter, Peter's letters, James' letters, and the rest of the New Covenant writings also known as the New Testament record spiritual Israel's attempts at searching the Old Testament in order to understand the New Covenant era of which Jesus Christ fulfilled the Mosaic Covenant and in doing so has taken the Hebrews into a new era in which He is the focal point of a transformative new relationship God has initiated with the Hebrews in accordance with the Scriptures.

You have been shown with scripture that has no ambiguity or possibility of misinterpretation that this is not true. So your continuing to argue from this position of bigotry, assigning the bigotry to God Almighty, is pointless.

So, to disbelieve or to contradict God's revelation of Himself and the relationship with He has with the Hebrews is to call God a liar. It is to speak against what God has done throughout human history to come to this one mystery which has been revealed, and that is, Christ (God) "in you" meaning the Hebrew people.

The repetition of the same strawman. No one is speaking against God, the revelation of Himself in the OT, or what He has done throughout human history. The mistake is on your side. The mystery is that He united all things in Christ, tearing down the dividing wall, making of the two people, one. And those in Christ are whoever God gave to Him before the foundation of the WORLD, and those who He came for, and died for, and who God placed in Christ through faith, no matter what their DNA is. You are denying Christ when you say He did not do this.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Even though this has nothing whatsoever to do with the post of mine that you quote, I will respond to this moving the goal post, false dichotomy, strawman: No one, not even me, has denied any of that.

Oh no, you threaten to have me moved upon or removed because you think I am attacking Gentiles, hate Gentiles, are being derogatory towards Gentiles is in error, but you oppose God and His Word when the Scripture says only Abraham's seed is in covenant, I maintain Abraham's seed is in covenant, and I say God has no covenant with Gentiles and you see this as an attack upon Gentiles? You don't get it that if the Scripture says in Genesis 17 the Abrahamic Covenant is with Abraham and his seed (aka Jews) and that God has no covenant with Gentiles, by interpreting the New Testament in a way that seems to say Gentiles are in the Abrahamic Covenant when there is no mention of Gentiles in this covenant when God made the covenant then I'm the bad guy for maintaining this truth and say so? Scripture CANNOT be broken, changed by an apostle or one million apostles, by any prophet, not by Christ Himself, then it stands to reason that since there are no Gentiles in the Abrahamic Covenant mentioned that there are just no Gentiles in the Abrahamic Covenant. Peter knows this, the Pharisees know this, Jesus knows this and Saul knows this, so why do you and 1900 years of Gentile theology teach something which cannot be proved from Scripture where and when the covenants are made?
God used Moses to deliver HEBREWS from bondage and made continued covenant with the children of Israel - NOT THE CHILDREN OF GENTILES.
Jesus is the fulfillment of covenant and prophecy made between God and the Hebrews/Israel/Jews. Even Jesus said He was sent to ONLY the lost sheep of the House of Israel.
The animal sacrifices were made for the sins of the children of Israel, and Christ is the lamb of God which takes away the sins of the world of Jews. Christ came to do the Father's will and not even He can break Scripture at any time while on earth to include Gentiles in the Abrahamic, Mosaic, and New Covenants - ALL COVENANTS between God and the Hebrew people ONLY.
And by you trying to include Gentiles in any of the Hebrew Covenants is what God calls opposition to Him and His Word. IF GOD WANTED to include Gentiles in the Abrahamic or Mosaic or New Covenants it would CLEARLY be stated and mentioned but in my studies, I find no such covenant with Gentiles nor their inclusion in the covenants. And YOU want to call ME out as being derogatory or dissing Gentiles? The Great Disser of Gentiles is God Himself, but you can't ban Him from this site unless you ban the believer in which He dwells - which would be to oppose God Himself and an antichrist move.

You have been shown with scripture that has no ambiguity or possibility of misinterpretation that this is not true. So your continuing to argue from this position of bigotry, assigning the bigotry to God Almighty, is pointless.

For the Nth time, show me in the Abrahamic Covenant in Genesis 12, 15, and 17 where GFentiles are mentioned as clearly as God names Abraham and his seed.
YOU CAN'T.
Show me in the Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy where Gentiles are included and named in the Mosaic Covenant as clearly as the children of Israel are named and identified as being in this covenant.
YOIU CAN'T.
Show me in Jeremiah 31:31-34 where Gentiles are named and mentioned as being in the New Covenant as clearly as God names and mentions the House of Israel and Judah.
YOU CAN'T.
And you want to threaten me?

The repetition of the same strawman. No one is speaking against God, the revelation of Himself in the OT, or what He has done throughout human history. The mistake is on your side. The mystery is that He united all things in Christ, tearing down the dividing wall, making of the two people, one. And those in Christ are whoever God gave to Him before the foundation of the WORLD, and those who He came for, and died for, and who God placed in Christ through faith, no matter what their DNA is. You are denying Christ when you say He did not do this.

When someone cannot prove their argument, they attempt to twist Scripture, add to Scripture, misinterpret Scripture, ignore the Scripture, or flat out call something strawman.
Since you have the power - but not the authority from God - to excommunicate true born believers in whom Christ dwells from fellowship for no real sin - I'm going to step away from interacting with you because once the seed for banning or removal has entered the mind it's just one small itch before one acts on it.

 

[Arial]

Oh no, you threaten to have me moved upon or removed because you think I am attacking Gentiles, hate Gentiles, are being derogatory towards Gentiles is in error,

Someone who says they are excited and can't wait for Jesus to return and destroy all the Gentile Christians is being hateful and derogatory towards them. You can believe whatever you want, and can think and feel such things all you want, but keep it to yourself. It is for that that I said if you kept it up you would be removed. Now you are simply gaslighting. Trying to turn it around on me and present me as the one who is stepping out of line and abusing my authority. How up in arms would you be if I wrote the same paragraph long sentence of hate towards Jews that you did towards "Gentile believers?" The fact is, as Christians and human beings, we should not feel that way about anyone.

but you oppose God and His Word when the Scripture says only Abraham's seed is in covenant,

It isn't me who opposes it, it is Paul. I simply gave you his words, words that I believe, and you reject. You have even gone so far as to say you don't care what Paul or anyone else says about it, you are right, they are wrong.

I maintain Abraham's seed is in covenant, and I say God has no covenant with Gentiles and you see this as an attack upon Gentiles?

It is an attack of Jesus if you want to know the truth about it. But that is not what prompted my telling you that you were crossing the line. It is when you said you were excited, could hardly wait, until Jesus returned and slaughtered them all. It is when you said they, the "Gentile Christians" were going to gather together against the Jews, and Jesus was going to massacre them. So, let's keep that straight.

You don't get it that if the Scripture says in Genesis 17 the Abrahamic Covenant is with Abraham and his seed (aka Jews) and that God has no covenant with Gentiles, by interpreting the New Testament in a way that seems to say Gentiles are in the Abrahamic Covenant when there is no mention of Gentiles in this covenant when God made the covenant then I'm the bad guy for maintaining this truth and say so?

It isn't a matter of interpreting the NT scriptures in a certain way. It is what it says, no ambiguity about it. In Eph 2, Paul is writing to Gentiles. 11.Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh--- called "the uncircumcision" by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands---12. remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated form the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world, 13. But now in Christ Jesus you who were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. (the blood of the covenant) 14. For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15. by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility, 17. And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near, 18. For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20. built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21. in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

That is a covenant, and it is with Jew and Gentile alike, and it cannot be successfully argued against. The word of God cannot be broken. There were two covenants with Abraham and his offspring. One concerning the land and God as there God, which was serving the purpose of the other. All nations being blessed. Abraham's offspring refers to both aspects as Paul tells us in Romans, and I have shown you at least twice. One offspring was of the flesh only, the other was Christ, promised in Gen 3, long before Gen 17. You simply do not see Redemption as a whole but only in one small part, and you do not see the purpose of that one small part, and call it the whole. That is what you are doing.

since there are no Gentiles in the Abrahamic Covenant mentioned that there are just no Gentiles in the Abrahamic Covenant. Peter knows this, the Pharisees know this, Jesus knows this and Saul knows this, so why do you and 1900 years of Gentile theology teach something which cannot be proved from Scripture where and when the covenants are made?

They taught the exact opposite of what you say. Jesus died to destroy your false theory, and tear down the wall you keep rebuilding. The old covenant was with Israel alone. The NEW covenant is with believers in all nations. That is what is new about it---one of the things, the main one.

 

[Arial]

God used Moses to deliver HEBREWS from bondage and made continued covenant with the children of Israel - NOT THE CHILDREN OF GENTILES.
Jesus is the fulfillment of covenant and prophecy made between God and the Hebrews/Israel/Jews. Even Jesus said He was sent to ONLY the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

He is the fulfillment of righteousness that is in the covenant Law. Restoration to righteousness with which man was created to be and failed, is the goal in redemption. Not Law, and not Israel alone. God is restoring all of creation not just the descendants of Abraham according to the flesh. (Romans 8:18-25; Romans 9:6-26) The fact that Jesus only went to the lost sheep of Israel, does not mean that He did not come for those who are in Him through faith of all ethnic persuasions in all nations. He could not go to them until Israel had first received this good news. It did not become for other nations until after His death, resurrection, and ascension. It was through those things that He defeated the power of the enemy (crushed the serpent's head) for all who come to Him in faith. (Your faith shall be counted as righteousness, God says to Abraham and promises to bless all nations through this Seed that crushed the serpent's head.) Before His ascension He charged His disciples to take this good news to all the nations. And we see in the Scriptures, if one does not turn a blind and bigoted mind to it, that Gentiles were adopted into His household through faith in the person and work of Jesus.

And by you trying to include Gentiles in any of the Hebrew Covenants is what God calls opposition to Him and His Word.

Well I am not and never was. Straw man. Gentiles are included in the New Covenant which is with BELIEVERS, not Jews only. You don't believe that, you break the word of God, making God to be a liar, when you refuse to believe it, and denigrate Christ. Which is the same as not having faith in Him.

IF GOD WANTED to include Gentiles in the Abrahamic or Mosaic or New Covenants it would CLEARLY be stated and mentioned but in my studies, I find no such covenant with Gentiles nor their inclusion in the covenants. And YOU want to call ME out as being derogatory or dissing Gentiles?

It is clearly stated that they could be a part of the Mosaic covenant, and were, even though they had no Hebrew blood, and clearly stated that they are in covenant with God in the New Covenant through faith in the person and work of Christ.

The Great Disser of Gentiles is God Himself, but you can't ban Him from this site unless you ban the believer in which He dwells - which would be to oppose God Himself and an antichrist move.

God was not "dissing" the pagans, later known as Gentiles. He was using the Israelites to show them that there are not many god's, there is only one God. And that He is that God, who created everything, in which everything lives, and moves, and has its very existence. That He is sovereign over and controls everything that they have god's of. (They had a god for everything. One for fertility, the land, the crops, the sun, moon, stars, war, victory etc, etc) God, through the Israelites and to them, (for they had been surrounded and immersed in these many gods for over four hundred years. They eventually fell back into trusting them, worshiping them and God) was showing that their gods could do nothing. They were deaf, and dumb, could not move, could not act, had no power whatsoever. They were just lumps of wood made in the image of man. ) God showed Himself, through Israel, to be a God who acts in history, and for and with His covenant people (not just Israel but all who HE brings into a covenant relationship.) You have missed that completely and it has distorted everything for you. So study differently.

but you can't ban Him from this site unless you ban the believer in which He dwells - which would be to oppose God Himself and an antichrist move.

I am simply going by what He says instead of what I want Him to be saying. God is not dwelling in a person who denigrates the work of Christ. But just to keep the record straight, I did not warn you of a reason for banning because of your beliefs, but because of something you said, which I will quote below.

but in time I know from God that will all change and one day yet future it will be Gentiles that will be blinded and when God turns His full attention back on His Chosen people this will cause a hatred and jealousy on the Gentiles (non-Hebrews) that will culminate on their joining the Gentile nations and attack Israel, but Christ returns to the mount
of Olives and from there joins with His people and beats back everyone God has caused to attack His people and will destroy them with the breath of His mouth and a two-edged sword in His hand. The armies of heaven will accompany Him and there will be a massacre beyond anything ever recorded in history of warfare and when the dust clears only Israel of twelve tribes will be left standing. Doesn't that excite you that Israel will finally destroy all her enemies? It excites me and I can hardly wait. I pray for that and for the peace for Jerusalem that will finally come about after Christ returns.