FOR or BECAUSE OF the forgiveness of your sins, (Acts 2:38)

[Arial]

so if you don't get circumcised God said you were still in the covenant doesn't seem likely to me then it is more than just a sign it is the terms of the covenant wouldn't it be? How can it be a sign if you refuse to do what you were told

The two covenants are not the same type of covenant and were not serving the same purpose. The first is a step in redemption that reveals God to humanity in ways that nature cannot. It establishes law that reflects his moral character and his governance and power. This law becomes the standard by which the Redeemer must be perfectly righteous so that he qualifies as a substitute, ransom, and propitiation for those he came to redeem.

The second is the Redeemer redeeming. There are no Jew and Gentile, male and female in the New Covenant. All are equal. There are no works that must be kept in order for God to be their God as in the Old.

Circumcision in the Old did not redeem one single person. It did not forgive sin. It was a sign of covenant membership.

Baptism in the New Covenant does not remove one single sin. It is the work of Christ applied to a person by the Holy Spirit, by grace and through faith, that remits sin. Baptism is the covenant expression of that faith and union. It is a visible, acted out, confession of faith and union with Christ. It is the faith and union with Christ that remits sin.

Baptism is commanded because:

• Jesus commanded it as an ordinance of his church.

Baptism marks entry into the New Covenant community.

• Baptism does not replace circumcision in a one-to-one fleshly sense. It fulfills its covenantal function, marking those who belong to God's visible people.

Therefore, it is:

• Public
• Initiatory
• Once-for-all

Baptism is commanded because God has appointed it to visibly portray the gospel.

• Death with Christ
• Burial with Christ
• Resurrection with Christ.

It is the appointed response to the gospel call (Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16) Peter is speaking covenantal, not mechanistically

 

[BillyBob65]

Okay now we are getting closer to fully understanding the purpose of baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.
First regardless of whether you think it is for the forgiveness of sin as stated in the bible can we agree that it is a must be? Can we agree that it is commanded and we must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Now if we agree so far to the above and we both agree it is what one does to enter into the new covenant of grace maybe we can see how.

Baptism is commanded because God has appointed it to visibly portray the gospel.

• Death with Christ
• Burial with Christ
• Resurrection with Christ.

It is the appointed response to the gospel call (Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16)

If it is to visibly portray this shouldn't this visibility be the reality of what God is doing to us through the act? You have just describe what baptism does to the person as Paul did in Romans 6. While the picture shows the reality of Gods work in baptism. Why it is the entry point of the new covenant.

 

[Carbon]

Okay now we are getting closer to fully understanding the purpose of baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.
First regardless of whether you think it is for the forgiveness of sin as stated in the bible can we agree that it is a must be? Can we agree that it is commanded and we must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Now if we agree so far to the above and we both agree it is what one does to enter into the new covenant of grace maybe we can see how.

If it is to visibly portray this shouldn't this visibility be the reality of what God is doing to us through the act? You have just describe what baptism does to the person as Paul did in Romans 6. While the picture shows the reality of Gods work in baptism. Why it is the entry point of the new covenant.

What you should be getting closer to fully understanding is, your not going to fool and or deceive genuine Christian’s that we are saved by anything besides Christ himself. It’s not Christ plus works. Etc…
But go right ahead keep trying.

 

[CrowCross]

Debatable

Then debate it.....it's why you made this forum...right?

 

[Carbon]

Then debate it.....it's why you made this forum...right?

Bro, calm down. All in good time.

 

[CrowCross]

Bro, calm down. All in good time.

Then debate it.....it's why you made this forum...right?

 

[Carbon]

Then debate it.....it's why you made this forum...right?

don’t you think there’s enough going on at the moment with dispensationalism?

 

[BillyBob65]

What you should be getting closer to fully understanding is, your not going to fool and or deceive genuine Christian’s that we are saved by anything besides Christ himself. It’s not Christ plus works. Etc…
But go right ahead keep trying.

I am not trying to convince anybody of anything I am just showing you what the scriptures say and the scriptures say that you are wrong baptism is clearly stated in Acts 2:38 as for the remission of sin and verified as that index 22:16 I'm only showing you what Chris scriptures say it's not for me to make you to believe it that's on your own

 

[Carbon]

I am not trying to convince anybody of anything I am just showing you what the scriptures say and the scriptures say that you are wrong baptism is clearly stated in Acts 2:38 as for the remission of sin and verified as that index 22:16 I'm only showing you what Chris scriptures say it's not for me to make you to believe it that's on your own

I don’t think you are able to rightly divide the word. Maybe if you keep trying? There is always hope

 

[JesusFan]

What I am asking is for you to point out in the book of Acts where a conversion is mentioned that doesn't mention baptism.

You gave Acts 2 but that chapter does command one to be baptized in Christ name

You said that calling on the name of the Lord excluded the command to be baptized so I showed you a parallel verse showing that the Bible (Paul spoke what the spirit gave him to say) said calling on the name of the Lord was through baptism in Acts 22:16.

Did they water baptize in just name of Jesus, or into all persons of the trinity there?

 

[JesusFan]

Well, Paul told the Philippian jailer to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. It was only after they had believed that the jailer and his household were baptized:

“And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized. Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.” (Ac 16:33-34 NKJV)

Same thing happened to the Ethiopian official with phillip, as was water Baptized as a sign and confession to his faith already in Lord Jesus as Son of God

 

[JesusFan]

Yes have you ever heard of anyone being baptized with out believing? Baptism is the expected response to the gospel call. When one comes to belief then and only then are they able to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin as seen in Acts 2. and just as in Acts 2 these heard the gospel and responded to the call with baptism in Christ name for the remission of sin just as in Acts 2 connect the dots it is spelled out so you can read and have faith in what is being taught.

Ask yourself a serious question and be honest with your answer. If baptism in Christ name is not for the remission of sin and the receiving of the holy ghost as it clearly says in Acts 2:38 then why was it important to get everyone baptized in Christ name?

To obey the Command of Jesus to get water Baptized after believing in Him as your Savior and Lord

 

[JesusFan]

Yes circumcision of the foreskin in the Old testament was the way they entered into the Old testament covenant in the New testament we are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ to enter into the New testament covenant so yes there is a connection there of the similarity both of them is the way you enter into the covenants

The entry way into the new Covenant is thru the Person of Jesus Christ, NOT thru any rite or sacrament

 

[JesusFan]

Baptism, though it is a sign of covenant membership, is similar in principle with circumcision in the Old Covenant, but it is not exactly the same. One is of the earth; the other is of heaven. The two covenants are not the same. Of interest to note, Abram's name was changed t Abraham when God made the covenant with him. Abram means exalted father. Abraham means father of a multitude. The command to circumcise was not given until 13 years later.

One became a member of the covenant community of God's people under the Old Covenant, and the sign was circumcision, but circumcision did nothing to change a heart. True circumcision is that of the heart. Faith and faithfulness in God. And note too, that only the males were circumcised and yet all the household was a part of the community.

What is different about baptism under the New Covenant is that it is a sign of a changed heart. But it is not baptism that changes the heart, it is the power of the Holy Spirit circumcising the heat, bringing it to faith in the person and work of Christ. It is this faith in Christ that remits sin. Baptism is the outward physical confession of that faith.

The real baptism that counts is the one that the Holy Spirit does on and he very moment received Jesus as savior and Lord thru faith, as he then indwells seals us into Jesus and the body in a spiritual union sense, and that is NOT when we get water baptized

 

[JesusFan]

I am not trying to convince anybody of anything I am just showing you what the scriptures say and the scriptures say that you are wrong baptism is clearly stated in Acts 2:38 as for the remission of sin and verified as that index 22:16 I'm only showing you what Chris scriptures say it's not for me to make you to believe it that's on your own

Have you yet tried to get your theology directly out form the Greek NT text itself though, as it cannot be found in there

 

[JesusFan]

Okay now we are getting closer to fully understanding the purpose of baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.
First regardless of whether you think it is for the forgiveness of sin as stated in the bible can we agree that it is a must be? Can we agree that it is commanded and we must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Now if we agree so far to the above and we both agree it is what one does to enter into the new covenant of grace maybe we can see how.

If it is to visibly portray this shouldn't this visibility be the reality of what God is doing to us through the act? You have just describe what baptism does to the person as Paul did in Romans 6. While the picture shows the reality of Gods work in baptism. Why it is the entry point of the new covenant.

Water Baptism saved no lost sinner, but it does point towards the One who did save us from our sins

 

[Carbon]

Water Baptism saved no lost sinner, but it does point towards the One who did save us from our sins

According to scripture anyway.

 

[Arial]

The real baptism that counts is the one that the Holy Spirit does on and he very moment received Jesus as savior and Lord thru faith, as he then indwells seals us into Jesus and the body in a spiritual union sense, and that is NOT when we get water baptized

So you have adjusted your view. That is good. However, one slight correction, A person believes because they have been baptized by the Holy Spirit as per John 3. The new birth also known as regeneration.

 

[JesusFan]

So you have adjusted your view. That is good. However, one slight correction, A person believes because they have been baptized by the Holy Spirit as per John 3. The new birth also known as regeneration.

Regenerated unto salvation and having eternal life in Christ

 

[JesusFan]

According to scripture anyway.

However we understand Acts 2:38, it must be seen in the framework of all scriptures regarding salvation, and cannot violate the truth of saved by grace alone received thru faith alone