Entering His Rest

[Alive]

“For this reason I too, having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which exists among you and your love for all the saints, do not cease giving thanks for you, while making mention of you in my prayers; that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him. I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the boundless greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and made Him head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

And you were dead in your offenses and sins, in which you previously walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all previously lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our wrongdoings, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the boundless riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.”

(Ephesians 1:15-2:10 NAS20)

Accordance

accordance.bible

 

[Arial]

My question is—Has God not regenerated His Elect from before the foundation of the world?

No. He elected them and predestined them to come to Christ in faith and to be conformed to His image. But they are born the same natural birth in Adam as everyone else. When the time is right, (and it is in God's time) He sends the Holy Spirit to bring about the new birth, a change of the heart from stony and hard against God, to one that is soft and moldable in His hands. The elect must hear and believe. (Romans 10:14) The different between the elect and the non-elect is that the elect hear and believe and the non-elect hear and do not believe. It is a work of God in the elect.

And if this is true, the Elect then are not born spiritually dead?

They are born in Adam the same as everyone. They must be brought to life in Christ by God. Eph 2. It is a marvelous thing!

And so when we hear the gospel for the very first time, will we not leap for joy and run into the arms of our Shepherd?

For some this is probably true but not for all. I heard my brother preach the gospel to me for seven years straight and I did not believe. I found it foolish and the preaching of it irritating. Until I didn't, and then, yes I leaped for joy.

 

[Mr GLee]

Early morning greetings. . .

God’s Elect have been justified by faith before the foundation of the world (from eternity past).

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. - Romans 5:1-2 (NKJV)

Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. - Romans 8:30 (NKJV)

My question is—Has God not regenerated His Elect from before the foundation of the world? And if this is true, the Elect then are not born spiritually dead? And so when we hear the gospel for the very first time, will we not leap for joy and run into the arms of our Shepherd?

~Pie
Jesus is our Rest

I would offer. Spiritually dead carrying out the wage of death in dying one will come to a end of spirit life The temporal spirit given under the letter of the law "death" (thou shalt not or you are dead never to rise) the dead earthen bodies return to the dust and temporal spirit to the Father Christ of all spirit life .

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Delivered by a new law not according to the things seen the temporal but the unseen things the law of faith, power God revealing His understanding as it is written

Romans 7:5-7King James Version. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet

In that we have the power of his faithful labor of love that can work in believer making the loads lighter. . . but they would never say it was of us . Jesus, the Son of man declared; Abba Father not as I will (no power) but you Father (all power)

2 Corinthians 4:6-7 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[Eleanor]

Giving life to our mortal bodies is biblical. Here is the verse: Romans 8:11 KJV, “But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.”

Ro 8:11 is referring to the resurrection, not natural birth.

 

[ShepherdsPie]

No. He elected them and predestined them to come to Christ in faith and to be conformed to His image. But they are born the same natural birth in Adam as everyone else. When the time is right, (and it is in God's time) He sends the Holy Spirit to bring about the new birth, a change of the heart from stony and hard against God, to one that is soft and moldable in His hands. The elect must hear and believe. (Romans 10:14) The different between the elect and the non-elect is that the elect hear and believe and the non-elect hear and do not believe. It is a work of God in the elect.

They are born in Adam the same as everyone. They must be brought to life in Christ by God. Eph 2. It is a marvelous thing!

For some this is probably true but not for all. I heard my brother preach the gospel to me for seven years straight and I did not believe. I found it foolish and the preaching of it irritating. Until I didn't, and then, yes I leaped for joy.

Thanks, Arial.

~Pie

 

[Biblelesson]

Giving life to our mortal bodies is biblical. Here is the verse: Romans 8:11 KJV, “But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.”

Ro 8:11 is referring to the resurrection, not natural birth.

You are misleading -

My listing Romans 8:11 KJV was not to show natural birth, which you cleverly twisted my intentions - to look important no doubt - I will call it like I see it.

However, there is a natural birth and there is a spiritual birth. Romans 8:11 KJV is referring to spiritual birth - born again. When we are born again by the Spirit, the Spirit quickens us, makes us alive in Christ. This quickening process, done the the Holy Spirit, is called regeneration,
Titus 3:5 KJV
“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;”

I will no longer respond to comments that deliberately twist scripture for their own gain! But those who express the truth of the gospel such as Ariel and others like Ariel, it is a welcome sight to read their post.

 

[Eleanor]

You are misleading -

My listing Romans 8:11 KJV was not to show natural birth, which you cleverly twisted my intentions - to look important no doubt - I will call it like I see it.
However, there is a natural birth and there is a spiritual birth. Romans 8:11 KJV is referring to spiritual birth - born again. When we are born again by the Spirit, the Spirit quickens us, makes us alive in Christ. This quickening process, done the the Holy Spirit, is called regeneration,
Titus 3:5 KJV
“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;”
I will no longer respond to comments that deliberately twist scripture for their own gain! But those who express the truth of the gospel such as Ariel and others like Ariel, it is a welcome sight to read their post.

Then check it out with Arial.

Is Ro 8:11 referring to the resurrection?

Is the resurrection a birth?

I know she can explain it in a way you can understand.

 

[Biblelesson]

Then check it out with Arial.

Is Ro 8:11 referring to the resurrection?

Is the resurrection a birth?

I know she can explain it in a way you can understand.

Eleanor, I apologize for my frustration. I can point to scripture that can explain, but maybe Ariel can answer both questions with some clarity!

 

[Alive]

Eleanor, I apologize for my frustration. I can point to scripture that can explain, but maybe Ariel can answer both questions with some clarity!

If I may…Paul is referring to our future resurrection as a result of being in Christ and sealed with the Holy Spirit as a guarantee.

 

[Eleanor]

Eleanor, I apologize for my frustration. I can point to scripture that can explain, but maybe Ariel can answer both questions with some clarity!

I understand, and am sorry for frustrating you.

It's all good.

 

[Alive]

I am feeling all fuzzy!
Lol

 

[Arial]

Eleanor, I apologize for my frustration. I can point to scripture that can explain, but maybe Ariel can answer both questions with some clarity!

Well, I think @Eleanor does a good job herself.

Romans 8:9-11 You however are not in the flesh but in the Spirit if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you, Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him, But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

However, there is a natural birth and there is a spiritual birth. Romans 8:11 KJV is referring to spiritual birth - born again. When we are born again by the Spirit, the Spirit quickens us, makes us alive in Christ. This quickening process, done the the Holy Spirit, is called regeneration,

The Spirit in us is a result of regeneration but when it says "he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies..." it is referring to the resurrection of the dead when Christ returns.

 

[Arial]

you cleverly twisted my intentions - to look important no doubt -

Please do not speak to other members in this way. Thanks.

 

[makesends]

Biblelesson said:
However, there is a natural birth and there is a spiritual birth. Romans 8:11 KJV is referring to spiritual birth - born again. When we are born again by the Spirit, the Spirit quickens us, makes us alive in Christ. This quickening process, done the the Holy Spirit, is called regeneration,

The Spirit in us is a result of regeneration but when it says "he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies..." it is referring to the resurrection of the dead when Christ returns.

@Arial, you say, "The Spirit in us is a result of regeneration...". Is this a typo? This seems to me almost backwards from your usual stance. Regeneration is the necessary effect of the Spirit 'moving into us', taking up residence, we thus becoming "IN HIM", no? At least, I have thought you (and pretty much all Reformed/Calvinists agreed with me that regeneration and its accompanying salvific faith are a product of the Spirit having moved in, (as far as causal sequence is concerned). Otherwise, what is the difference between Reformed and Arminian, but that the Reformed always claim monergism? But this is a different monergism, done by the Spirit of God to us, but not in us? I don't get it.

Is this how the Reformed see the OT saints' faith too? Not quite by the Spirit's having become one with us, but only by its moving upon us?

I know it's kinda off topic, so forgive me for needing to ask this, as I have already asked in different places in different ways, but I'm never quite sure of the answers I'm getting, because of the seeming inconsistency. I have not been trained by anyone in Reformed theology, but came upon it after hearing that what I have come to believe was the same as..., so once in a while I run into nuances that don't quite do it for me.

 

[Biblelesson]

he Spirit in us is a result of regeneration but when it says "he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies..." it is referring to the resurrection of the dead when Christ returns.

The scripture is referring to the life given by the Spirit in us prior to resurrection, which regenerates the believer, and which makes resurrection possible for the believer. Without having been given life by the Spirit - to our mortal bodies, new birth, a believer cannot be resurrected at Christ’s second coming.

 

[makesends]

makesends said:
You seem to miss the question: If the "Holy Ghost was not yet [in any way] given", how was regeneration possible?, or more directly to the point, how was salvific faith possible?

Nobody is debating the veracity of the statement of Scripture concerning the seeming displacement principle —that Christ had to go for the Spirit to come. What is being looked at is the nature of this coming and what it implies, and whether it really means that something salvific is new as compared to pre-Pentecost.

I have no I idea what you are saying. Please provide scripture!

Provide Scripture as to what?

The question was, "If the 'Holy Ghost was not yet given', how was regeneration possible?". Are you asking for Scripture demonstrating that there is no regeneration apart from the Holy Spirit? Or, are you asking for Scripture demonstrating that that was the question? Or are you asking for scripture demonstrating that Christ had to go for the Spirit to come? Or what?

 

[Eleanor]

Early morning greetings. . .

God’s Elect have been justified by faith before the foundation of the world (from eternity past).
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. - Romans 5:1-2 (NKJV)
Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. - Romans 8:30 (NKJV)

My question is—Has God not regenerated His Elect from before the foundation of the world? And if this is true, the Elect then are not born spiritually dead? And so when we hear the gospel for the very first time, will we not leap for joy and run into the arms of our Shepherd?
~Pie
Jesus is our Rest

No, God has decreed from before the foundation of the world that in the realm of time they shall be regenerated at his appointed time for them. . .
and, therefore, they shall be regenerated.

And what God decrees is as good as already done.

 

[makesends]

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.”

Side issue, I guess, but I don't see starting a new thread over it: I love the construct, "that we would walk in them (the good works prepared beforehand)." The Bible has several such uses of "walking with" and "walking in". All of them, to me, mean more than simple obedience to what we know to be good or right. It has everything to do with what I refer to by, "We do so because it is so." Being IN CHRIST is not simply reorganizing our allegiances and priorities. It has to do with being utterly changed. We are no longer merely self, with certain superpositions acting upon us or toward us.

 

[Mr GLee]

No, God has decreed from before the foundation of the world that in the realm of time they shall be regenerated at his appointed time for them. . .
and, therefore, they shall be regenerated.

And what God decrees is as good as already done.

Names written down during the 6 days when Christ the lamb was slain. Two books will be opened names will be erased from one.

 

[Arial]

The scripture is referring to the life given by the Spirit in us prior to resurrection, which regenerates the believer, and which makes resurrection possible for the believer. Without having been given life by the Spirit - to our mortal bodies, new birth, a believer cannot be resurrected at Christ’s second coming.

It is making reference to two different things. The Spirit indwelling the believer which is regeneration, but when it uses the word resurrection it is not referring to the new birth but the resurrection of the body. The subject is not regeneration.