Entering His Rest

[Alive]

Romans 8:29-30 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Philippians 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

John 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.

Rest.

Amen…the crux of this is that it is God’s work. I can swing a hammer and do lots of other earthly work, but I am limited in that realm. And even there, I need Christ.

 

[Arial]

Amen…the crux of this is that it is God’s work. I can swing a hammer and do lots of other earthly work, but I am limited in that realm. And even there, I need Christ.

Yup. There is just no way around the fact that it is in God we live. We move. We have our being. We aren't even for ourselves but for the glory of God.

 

[Biblelesson]

Obedience in the Holy Spirit is the result of saving faith.

A lifestyle of sin demonstrates that one does not have saving faith, even though he claims to believe, rather his faith is counterfeit, as in the tares (Mt 13:24-30).

The Holy Spirit doesn't just drop sanctification down from the sky into us.
He transforms us through our obedience to the word of God in the Scriptures (Ro 6:16, 19).
No obedience in the Holy Spirit = no transformation in the Holy Spirit = counterfeit faith revealed.

Can you give an example of obedience in the Holy Spirit that results in saving faith?

Also, we all have lived a lifestyle of sin. All have fallen short. That’s why we are commanded not to judge. Christians are no different from sinners except righteousness has been imputed on the believer because he/she believed on Christ. It’s Christ righteousness that makes the believer righteousness, not anything the believer brings to the table.

We must be careful about looking outward at someone’s behavior, because we really don’t know if the Holy Spirit is working on him/her. Only God searches the reigns of the heart, Jeremiah 17:10 KJV.

Also, you said, “The Holy Spirit doesn't just drop sanctification down from the sky into us,” BUT, this is exactly what happens - not from the sky, but from heaven, as these scripture says,

Acts 2:17 KJV and Joel 2:28 KJV, “And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:”

God gives the believer the Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands when baptized -
Acts 8:17 KJV, “Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.”

The Spirit that God pours done on us bears witness with with our spirit that we are sons of God.

So, in fact, God does pour down from heaven His Spirit onto/into us - this is the regeneration of our dead spirit unto life in Christ Jesus.

We can’t do acts of obedience; we are made righteousness through our faith.

 

[Eleanor]

Obedience in the Holy Spirit is the result of saving faith.

A lifestyle of sin demonstrates that one does not have saving faith, even though he claims to believe, rather his faith is counterfeit, as in the tares (Mt 13:24-30).

The Holy Spirit doesn't just drop sanctification down from the sky into us.
He transforms us through our obedience to the word of God in the Scriptures (Ro 6:16, 19).
No obedience in the Holy Spirit = no transformation in the Holy Spirit = counterfeit faith revealed.

Can you give an example of obedience in the Holy Spirit that results in saving faith?

Obedience is the result of saving faith.

Obedience comes from saving faith.

 

[Biblelesson]

Obedience is the result of saving faith.

Obedience comes from saving faith.

Where does the saving faith come from if it results in obedience?

 

[Eleanor]

Where does the saving faith come from if it results in obedience?

It is a gift of the Holy Spirit (Php 1:29, Ac 13:48, 18:27, 2 Pe 1:1, Ro 12:3) who also gives the new birth (Jn 3:3-5).

 

[Biblelesson]

It is a gift of the Holy Spirit (Php 1:29, Ac 13:48, 18:27, 2 Pe 1:1, Ro 12:3) who also gives the new birth (Jn 3:3-5).

Amen! Just one thing. The Holy Spirit does not give the new birth, but we are born of the Spirit.

Just like a human child is born of a man;
To be reborn is to be BORN OF the Spirit making us children. Just like Christ who was BORN OF the Spirit; Christ being the first born of many brethren- Romans 8:29 KJV

 

[Eleanor]

Amen! Just one thing. The Holy Spirit does not give the new birth,

Then who gives the new birth?

but we are born of the Spirit.

Just like a human child is born of a man;
To be reborn is to be BORN OF the Spirit making us children. Just like Christ who was BORN OF the Spirit; Christ being the first born of many brethren- Romans 8:29 KJV

Are we not born of woman, who gives birth to us?

"Born of" does not mean "give birth to"?

Is conception not the result of man, while the birth is of woman?

 

[Biblelesson]

Then who gives the new birth?

Are we not born of woman, who gives birth to us?

"Born of" does not mean "give birth to"?

Is conception not the result of man, while the birth is of woman?

Humans are born of man, into the family of man, thus we are the children of men.
Are you not a man? or are you a bird or a fish?

Regarding the new birth, we are born of God, born into the family of God by the Holy Spirit, thus we are children of God!

 

[Eleanor]

Humans are born of man, into the family of man. Are you not a man? or are you a bird or a fish?

Regarding the new birth, we are born of God, born into the family of God by the Holy Spirit. Thus we are children of God!

So what does "born. . .by the Holy Spirit" mean, if not "give birth to," whereby we are children of God?

Does it mean the Holy Spirit causes the new birth "apart from himself"?
How are we children of God if we are not reborn by the divine?

 

[Biblelesson]

So what does "born. . .by the Holy Spirit" mean, if not "give birth to," whereby we are children of God?

Does it mean the Holy Spirit causes the new birth "apart from himself"?
How are we children of God if we are not reborn by the divine?

Very good question!

God established his children at the new birth based on His Seed. Just like a human child has the seed of their father making them that father’s son or daughter, the born again has the seed of the God.
1 John 3:9 KJV, “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”

The Holy Spirit is that seed. Without Christ no man can be born again, because it’s through Christ we receive the Holy Spirit, Who is the seed of God, and having received the seed of God in us, we are born again - bringing us into the family of God, Christ being the firstborn of many brethren.

For God to accomplish our new birth, the first man to receive God’s Seed was Christ: Mary being a virgin only carried an egg. No human man could fertilized Mary’s egg to produce a child. So, for Jesus to be born, the Holy Spirit - the seed of God, came upon her, and the power of the Highest overshadow her, working into her body the seed of David, thus God fertilized Mary’s egg. Luke 1:35 KJV.

Jesus was born a man and God: He possessed in His body attributes of man and God. He did not possess the seed of sinful man Adam, but a holy seed of God - therefore sin was not in Him.

So now, God sent His Son to be born in this manner to redeem us. Now through Jesus, we receive this same seed, the Holy Spirit, when we believe on Him placing us in the Kingdom of God as His children. God pours out His Sprit - his seed - the same Spirit in Christ on the believer causing the new birth!

Our bodies will be quickens by this same Spirit that’s in Christ,
Romans 8:11 KJV
“But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.”

 

[Eleanor]

Very good question!

God established his children at the new birth based on His Seed. Just like a human child has the seed of their father making them that father’s son or daughter, the born again has the seed of the God.
1 John 3:9 KJV, “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”

Born again (Jn 3:3), born of God (Jn 1:13), born of the Spirit (Jn 3:6) all mean the same thing, and all are as physical birth; i.e.,
a new (spiritual) life is born, which will grow and have the characteristics of whomever gave it birth (the Holy Spirit of God).

The Holy Spirit is that seed.

Actually, eternal life; i.e., God's life, is that seed, given in the re-birth of the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:3-5).

Without Christ no man can be born again, because it’s through Christ we receive the Holy Spirit,

But is it not through the sovereign rebirth of the Holy Spirit into eternal life that one can even see the kingdom of God (Jn 3:3-5),
much less believe in Christ (who is the kingdom of God, Mt 12:28, Lk 11:20, which kingdom is spiritual--hidden and within, Lk 17:20-21),
until one is born again of the Holy Spirit?
How then can one be in the kingdom of God; i.e., Christ, apart from rebirth of the Holy Spirit whereby he is able to see and, therefore, believe in Christ?
One is in Christ, instead of condemnation (Ro 5:18), only by faith in Christ.

There is no being in Christ apart from saving faith in Christ.

 

[Biblelesson]

Born again (Jn 3:3), born of God (Jn 1:13), born of the Spirit (Jn 3:6) all mean the same thing, and all are as physical birth; i.e.,
a new (spiritual) life is born, which will grow and have the characteristics of whomever gave it birth (the Holy Spirit of God).

Actually, eternal life; i.e., God's life, is that seed, given in the re-birth of the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:3-5).

But is it not through the sovereign rebirth of the Holy Spirit into eternal life that one can even see the kingdom of God (Jn 3:3-5),
much less believe in Christ (who is the kingdom of God, Mt 12:28, Lk 11:20, which kingdom is spiritual--hidden and within, Lk 17:20-21),
until one is born again of the Holy Spirit?
How then can one be in the kingdom of God; i.e., Christ, apart from rebirth of the Holy Spirit whereby he is able to see and, therefore, believe in Christ?
One is in Christ, instead of condemnation (Ro 5:18), only by faith in Christ.

There is no being in Christ apart from saving faith in Christ.

But without Christ’s death on the cross, none of this would be possible - there would be no saving faith! Christ is all in all and is the fullness of the Godhead boldly possessing God the Father and the Holy Spirit. It is only through Christ that one might be saved - there is no rebirth without Christ!

My post started with explaining God’s plan to save mankind through Jesus who was born man and God. I was explaining how through Christ birth, we receive the same Spirit, holy seed of God, thus giving life to our mortal bodies, whereby we are born again, and are children of God.

 

[Eleanor]

But without Christ’s death on the cross, none of this would be possible - there would be no saving faith!

Agreed. . .

But unregenerate (without the Holy Spirit) man cannot see the things of the kingdom of God (Jn 3:3-5),
he cannot understand them for they are foolishness to him (1 Co 2:14),
he must first be born again (regenerated) before he can even recognize Christ as who he says he is, what he has done, and believe in him.

There is no faith without the sovereign rebirth of the Holy Spirit, which rebirth is as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:6-8).

Christ is all in all and is the fullness of the Godhead boldly possessing God the Father and the Holy Spirit. It is only through Christ that one might be saved - there is no rebirth without Christ!

My post started with explaining God’s plan to save mankind through Jesus who was born man and God. I was explaining how through Christ birth, we receive the same Spirit, holy seed of God, thus giving life to our mortal bodies, whereby we are born again, and are children of God.

Our mortal bodies have human life from birth.
The life we receive in the new birth is eternal life in our spirit, by the sovereign Holy Spirit.
Only then do we have eyes that can see the kingdom of God (Jesus Christ, who is the kingdom of God, Mt 12:28, Lk 11:20), and believe.

 

[Alive]

We all, while living in this earthen vessel are tempted in many ways, to slip back onto our neck the burden of the principle of law and works. It’s easy to do, because the flesh wants to be pre-imminent.
There is another law or principle that we have ‘In Christ’.
We see it here…
“For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.”

(Romans 8:2 NAS20)

This is where we find rest. Just as gravity is a law or principle that is real and persistent, the Law or principle of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus is a real and persistent actual force…all we need do is stop abiding in the fleshly dictates and rest in Him by faith.
Believe it.
In experience, The Lord Helps is with this by taking us through a period of much ‘effort’ or ‘struggle’ with the flesh until we are worn out. He shows us, how much better off we are by allowing Him to work in us.
We thus weaken and decrease, as He increases in us.
We enter the Land of Rest having Left Egypt..the land of toil and bondage.

 

[Eleanor]

We all, while living in this earthen vessel are tempted in many ways, to slip back onto our neck the burden of the principle of law and works. It’s easy to do, because the flesh wants to be pre-imminent.
There is another law or principle that we have ‘In Christ’.
We see it here…
“For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.”
(Romans 8:2 NAS20)
This is where we find rest. Just as gravity is a law or principle that is real and persistent, the Law or principle of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus is a real and persistent actual force…all we need do is stop abiding in the fleshly dictates and rest in Him by faith.
Believe it.

In experience, The Lord Helps is with this by taking us through a period of much ‘effort’ or ‘struggle’ with the flesh until we are worn out. He shows us, how much better off we are by allowing Him to work in us.
We thus weaken and decrease, as He increases in us.
We enter the Land of Rest having Left Egypt..the land of toil and bondage.

God's full-time Sabbath rest in Jesus Christ (Heb 4:3-7).

 

[Biblelesson]

Agreed. . .

But unregenerate (without the Holy Spirit) man cannot see the things of the kingdom of God (Jn 3:3-5),
he cannot understand them for they are foolishness to him (1 Co 2:14),
he must first be born again (regenerated) before he can even recognize Christ as who he says he is, what he has done, and believe in him.

There is no faith without the sovereign rebirth of the Holy Spirit, which rebirth is as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:6-8).

Our mortal bodies have human life from birth.
The life we receive in the new birth is eternal life in our spirit, by the sovereign Holy Spirit.
Only then do we have eyes that can see the kingdom of God (Jesus Christ, who is the kingdom of God, Mt 12:28, Lk 11:20), and believe.

Giving life to our mortal bodies is biblical. Here is the verse: Romans 8:11 KJV, “But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.”

Quicken means to make alive.

At the time of Matthew 12:28 KJV, and Luke 11:20 KJV, the new birth was not yet, as the
Holy Spirit had not been given yet, because Jesus had not died, John 7:38-39,
38 “He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”

 

[makesends]

Giving life to our mortal bodies is biblical. Here is the verse: Romans 8:11 KJV, “But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.”

Quicken means to make alive.

At the time of Matthew 12:28 KJV, and Luke 11:20 KJV, the new birth was not yet, as the
Holy Spirit had not been given yet, because Jesus had not died, John 7:38-39,
38 “He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”

You seem to miss the question: If the "Holy Ghost was not yet [in any way] given", how was regeneration possible?, or more directly to the point, how was salvific faith possible?

Nobody is debating the veracity of the statement of Scripture concerning the seeming displacement principle —that Christ had to go for the Spirit to come. What is being looked at is the nature of this coming and what it implies, and whether it really means that something salvific is new as compared to pre-Pentecost.

 

[Biblelesson]

You seem to miss the question: If the "Holy Ghost was not yet [in any way] given", how was regeneration possible?, or more directly to the point, how was salvific faith possible?

Nobody is debating the veracity of the statement of Scripture concerning the seeming displacement principle —that Christ had to go for the Spirit to come. What is being looked at is the nature of this coming and what it implies, and whether it really means that something salvific is new as compared to pre-Pentecost.

I have no I idea what you are saying. Please provide scripture!

 

[ShepherdsPie]

Early morning greetings. . .

God’s Elect have been justified by faith before the foundation of the world (from eternity past).

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. - Romans 5:1-2 (NKJV)

Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. - Romans 8:30 (NKJV)

My question is—Has God not regenerated His Elect from before the foundation of the world? And if this is true, the Elect then are not born spiritually dead? And so when we hear the gospel for the very first time, will we not leap for joy and run into the arms of our Shepherd?

~Pie
Jesus is our Rest