End-Time Prophets & Prophecies

[Buff Scott Jr.]

End-Time Prophets &
Prophecies
​

Of all the End-Time prophets through the centuries who have prophesied certain dates and seasons for Jesus’ return to “establish His kingdom,” how many have been correct? Not one. Jesus’ reign [kingdom] is already 2,000 years old. I’m convinced our End-Time prophets are chasing after the wind. In their Seminars and Conventions we hear the same prophetic utterances over and over. We listen to the same scriptures that supposedly apply to each prophecy, many of which appear to be misapplied and even distorted, and we walk away with nothing new or divinely sensational.

The apostle Paul noted that the Word is more than milk. As for me, I have better things to do than set a date or time, even an approximate time or season, for Jesus’ return and the end of all terrestrial things as we know them. No human mind possesses that knowledge.

These brothers—and they are my spiritual brothers in spite of their point of view—see almost all symbolisms and figures of speech with a terrestrial, materialistic mindset. Bless their hearts, it’s as though they can’t see above the clouds! They see Jesus’ kingdom as being of this world, yet Jesus Himself declared, “My kingdom is not of this world” [John 18:36]. If Jesus’ kingdom [reign)] is yet future and will be of this world, as the advocates of a future earthly reign contend, Jesus must have been mistaken when He answered Pilate.

Jesus’ kingdom is spiritual in nature, as opposed to its being like worldly governments. The early believers were citizens of His kingdom [reign]. So are we. When the end comes, or when Jesus makes His final advent, the current reign—the era of grace—will be delivered “back to God the Father” [1 Cor. 15:24]. Jesus’ current kingdom—the community of the redeemed—cannot be destroyed, defeated, overran, negotiated with, and the gates of Hell cannot prevail against it. It will last forever.

The fallen kingdoms of Egypt, under the pharaohs, were observable and transitory. The kingdom of Babylon, under King Nebuchadnezzar, was materialistic and earthly. During its tenure it was viewed, visited, negotiated with, and finally destroyed. The kingdom of the Messiah is different. It is not, nor will it be, earthly and transitory. It will never be destroyed [Dan. 2:44]. Heaven is an extension of this eternal kingdom [2 Peter 1:11]. That is why Daniel said it will last forever!

On the other hand, earthly kingdoms exist for only a season before they’re toppled. They engage in military combat, winning some battles while losing others, are finally overran, never to rise again. Now we know why Jesus told Pilate His kingdom [reign] was not of this world. We ponder, then, why our Earth-First and End-Time prophets would have it of this world.

Jesus— “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed, nor will they say. ‘Look, here it is!’ Or ‘There it is.’ For behold the kingdom of God is in the midst of you” [Luke 17:20].​

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

End-Time Prophets &
Prophecies
​

Of all the End-Time prophets through the centuries who have prophesied certain dates and seasons for Jesus’ return to “establish His kingdom,” how many have been correct? Not one. Jesus’ reign [kingdom] is already 2,000 years old. I’m convinced our End-Time prophets are chasing after the wind. In their Seminars and Conventions we hear the same prophetic utterances over and over. We listen to the same scriptures that supposedly apply to each prophecy, many of which appear to be misapplied and even distorted, and we walk away with nothing new or divinely sensational.

The apostle Paul noted that the Word is more than milk. As for me, I have better things to do than set a date or time, even an approximate time or season, for Jesus’ return and the end of all terrestrial things as we know them. No human mind possesses that knowledge.

These brothers—and they are my spiritual brothers in spite of their point of view—see almost all symbolisms and figures of speech with a terrestrial, materialistic mindset. Bless their hearts, it’s as though they can’t see above the clouds! They see Jesus’ kingdom as being of this world, yet Jesus Himself declared, “My kingdom is not of this world” [John 18:36]. If Jesus’ kingdom [reign)] is yet future and will be of this world, as the advocates of a future earthly reign contend, Jesus must have been mistaken when He answered Pilate.

Jesus’ kingdom is spiritual in nature, as opposed to its being like worldly governments. The early believers were citizens of His kingdom [reign]. So are we. When the end comes, or when Jesus makes His final advent, the current reign—the era of grace—will be delivered “back to God the Father” [1 Cor. 15:24]. Jesus’ current kingdom—the community of the redeemed—cannot be destroyed, defeated, overran, negotiated with, and the gates of Hell cannot prevail against it. It will last forever.

The fallen kingdoms of Egypt, under the pharaohs, were observable and transitory. The kingdom of Babylon, under King Nebuchadnezzar, was materialistic and earthly. During its tenure it was viewed, visited, negotiated with, and finally destroyed. The kingdom of the Messiah is different. It is not, nor will it be, earthly and transitory. It will never be destroyed [Dan. 2:44]. Heaven is an extension of this eternal kingdom [2 Peter 1:11]. That is why Daniel said it will last forever!

On the other hand, earthly kingdoms exist for only a season before they’re toppled. They engage in military combat, winning some battles while losing others, are finally overran, never to rise again. Now we know why Jesus told Pilate His kingdom [reign] was not of this world. We ponder, then, why our Earth-First and End-Time prophets would have it of this world.

Jesus— “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed, nor will they say. ‘Look, here it is!’ Or ‘There it is.’ For behold the kingdom of God is in the midst of you” [Luke 17:20].​

Interesting you take the single verse Luke 17:20 out of context. How about addressing what Jesus then said next - from verses 20-37 - a lot more than just a single verse.

 

[Josheb]

End-Time Prophets &
Prophecies
​

Of all the End-Time prophets through the centuries who have prophesied certain dates and seasons for Jesus’ return to “establish His kingdom,” how many have been correct? Not one.....

Jesus— “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed, nor will they say. ‘Look, here it is!’ Or ‘There it is.’ For behold the kingdom of God is in the midst of you” [Luke 17:20].​

Very good post.

I'll add a few germane observations.

• No one New Testament mention of the kingdom should be used to define or explain the kingdom. They should all be considered as a whole to understand the kingdom. Few do that.
• Just because Christ's kingdom is not of the world does not mean it is not in or on the world.
• There is only one modern eschatological point of view that continuously propagates false prognosticators in the last two hundred years. They do, as the op has observed, ALL have a 100% fail rate. Note a single one of their predictions has ever come true. That viewpoint is Dispensational Premillennialism, or more generically, modern futurism. We should, therefore, ask ourselves whether, or to what degree we want to give any credence to a theology that fosters false teaching.
• It does not happen only in "their Seminars and Conventions." It can be heard everyday on Christian radio. The problem is real, substantive, and pervasive and it leads many astray.
• Time-frame setting is no more valid, veracious, or efficacious than specific date-setting.
• Remember Whose you are, @Buff Scott Jr., because the critics are going to make it personal and digress (observe Post 2). Do not take the bait.

Just saying

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

Very good post.

I'll add a few germane observations.

• No one New Testament mention of the kingdom should be used to define or explain the kingdom. They should all be considered as a whole to understand the kingdom. Few do that.
• Just because Christ's kingdom is not of the world does not mean it is not in or on the world.
• There is only one modern eschatological point of view that continuously propagates false prognosticators in the last two hundred years. They do, as the op has observed, ALL have a 100% fail rate. Note a single one of their predictions has ever come true. That viewpoint is Dispensational Premillennialism, or more generically, modern futurism. We should, therefore, ask ourselves whether, or to what degree we want to give any credence to a theology that fosters false teaching.
• It does not happen only in "their Seminars and Conventions." It can be heard everyday on Christian radio. The problem is real, substantive, and pervasive and it leads many astray.
• Time-frame setting is no more valid, veracious, or efficacious than specific date-setting.
• Remember Whose you are, @Buff Scott Jr., because the critics are going to make it personal and digress (observe Post 2). Do not take the bait.

Just saying

Throw the baby out with the bath water. That's a great way to do Biblical study. Real "Berean" of you.

 

[Josheb]

Throw the baby out with the bath water. That's a great way to do Biblical study. Real "Berean" of you.

Just so you know for now and future reference. I find the rhetoric of Post #4 meaningless, indicative of a wanting intellect, a waste of both our time and effort, and I have no respect and little tolerance for it - especially if after reading what I just wrote more of it persists instead of a godlier and more functional alternative.


If disagreement is found with another's post, then state the specific point of disagreement and provide some semblance of scripturally informed support for the dissent.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

Just so you know for now and future reference. I find the rhetoric of Post #4 meaningless, indicative of a wanting intellect, a waste of both our time and effort, and I have no respect and little tolerance for it - especially if after reading what I just wrote more of it persists instead of a godlier and more functional alternative.


If disagreement is found with another's post, then state the specific point of disagreement and provide some semblance of scripturally informed support for the dissent.

Your observations have no scripture support to them and so they are quite useless.

 

[Josheb]

Your observations have no scripture support to them and so they are quite useless.

Prove it.

Note: Only two of the six points had anything to do with scripture and even those two points have more to do with proper exegesis than specific statements in scripture. The other four were observations about contemporary history. Post 6 has nothing to do with the op or Post 3, so I am going to ask you, once again, to specify your disagreement.

For example. The first point speaks to the very common malpractice called "proof-texting," or the selection of one single verse, removed from its context and used to form doctrine in neglect of all else that scripture states on the subject. Proof-texting is not good practice, and it invariably leads to bad thinking, bad conclusions, bad doctrine, and further bad practice. If you think that observation has "no scripture support" and therefore is "quite useless," then please BY ALL MEANS make that case because I will read it, give it consideration, and then affirm it if correct and refute it if incorrect.

Stop wasting my time with meaningless protest. Specify your disagreement and make the case for it. Use scripture where appropriate and possible.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

Prove it.

Note: Only two of the six points had anything to do with scripture and even those two points have more to do with proper exegesis than specific statements in scripture. The other four were observations about contemporary history. Post 6 has nothing to do with the op or Post 3, so I am going to ask you, once again, to specify your disagreement.

For example. The first point speaks to the very common malpractice called "proof-texting," or the selection of one single verse, removed from its context and used to form doctrine in neglect of all else that scripture states on the subject. Proof-texting is not good practice, and it invariably leads to bad thinking, bad conclusions, bad doctrine, and further bad practice. If you think that observation has "no scripture support" and therefore is "quite useless," then please BY ALL MEANS make that case because I will read it, give it consideration, and then affirm it if correct and refute it if incorrect.

Stop wasting my time with meaningless protest. Specify your disagreement and make the case for it. Use scripture where appropriate and possible.

Exactly! That is what I pointed out in my comment about Luke 17:20. Trying to prove something from one verse and yet ignoring 20 more right after that disprove the entire argument.

Yes, please stop wasting our time with your silly observations that have no Scriptural support. Throwing the baby out with the bath water is not how you study prophecy - or any Scripture, for that matter.

 

[EarlyActs]

End-Time Prophets &
Prophecies
​

Of all the End-Time prophets through the centuries who have prophesied certain dates and seasons for Jesus’ return to “establish His kingdom,” how many have been correct? Not one. Jesus’ reign [kingdom] is already 2,000 years old. I’m convinced our End-Time prophets are chasing after the wind. In their Seminars and Conventions we hear the same prophetic utterances over and over. We listen to the same scriptures that supposedly apply to each prophecy, many of which appear to be misapplied and even distorted, and we walk away with nothing new or divinely sensational.

The apostle Paul noted that the Word is more than milk. As for me, I have better things to do than set a date or time, even an approximate time or season, for Jesus’ return and the end of all terrestrial things as we know them. No human mind possesses that knowledge.

These brothers—and they are my spiritual brothers in spite of their point of view—see almost all symbolisms and figures of speech with a terrestrial, materialistic mindset. Bless their hearts, it’s as though they can’t see above the clouds! They see Jesus’ kingdom as being of this world, yet Jesus Himself declared, “My kingdom is not of this world” [John 18:36]. If Jesus’ kingdom [reign)] is yet future and will be of this world, as the advocates of a future earthly reign contend, Jesus must have been mistaken when He answered Pilate.

Jesus’ kingdom is spiritual in nature, as opposed to its being like worldly governments. The early believers were citizens of His kingdom [reign]. So are we. When the end comes, or when Jesus makes His final advent, the current reign—the era of grace—will be delivered “back to God the Father” [1 Cor. 15:24]. Jesus’ current kingdom—the community of the redeemed—cannot be destroyed, defeated, overran, negotiated with, and the gates of Hell cannot prevail against it. It will last forever.

The fallen kingdoms of Egypt, under the pharaohs, were observable and transitory. The kingdom of Babylon, under King Nebuchadnezzar, was materialistic and earthly. During its tenure it was viewed, visited, negotiated with, and finally destroyed. The kingdom of the Messiah is different. It is not, nor will it be, earthly and transitory. It will never be destroyed [Dan. 2:44]. Heaven is an extension of this eternal kingdom [2 Peter 1:11]. That is why Daniel said it will last forever!

On the other hand, earthly kingdoms exist for only a season before they’re toppled. They engage in military combat, winning some battles while losing others, are finally overran, never to rise again. Now we know why Jesus told Pilate His kingdom [reign] was not of this world. We ponder, then, why our Earth-First and End-Time prophets would have it of this world.

Jesus— “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed, nor will they say. ‘Look, here it is!’ Or ‘There it is.’ For behold the kingdom of God is in the midst of you” [Luke 17:20].​

This is important to know, but there is maybe a better term for the kingdom: that it is imperative. This means it is present and is to be honored, submitted to. But people don't, to their peril. So if "spiritual" has this actual moral force, to it, fine. The literalists don't like it but they also don't clarify that true spiritual reality is a good thing; to listen to them, you would think it is awful.

Another question is the moment of enthronement. It is the resurrection. The resurrection is to be understood as exalting Christ above all names and placing him in this place. Acts 2-4, Rom 1, Eph 1, Phil 2, Heb 1 all say this is an established Christian doctrine. Not that evil is all finished, for the Father will make his enemies a place for his feetcushion. So we should not be walking around saying 'God is in control' which is not the meaning of the NT at all.

 

[EarlyActs]

Interesting you take the single verse Luke 17:20 out of context. How about addressing what Jesus then said next - from verses 20-37 - a lot more than just a single verse.

It is not at all out of context. It is anticipating the mistakes of the times, of the zealots and of the people who will do the same thing during the Jewish revolt of 66+. There will be a continual pursuit for a regular kingdom, the idea that no Messiah could fail to have a Davidic reign like the one in the historic past.

 

[Buff Scott Jr.]

Interesting you take the single verse Luke 17:20 out of context. How about addressing what Jesus then said next - from verses 20-37 - a lot more than just a single verse.

Eclipse, what follows Luke 17:20 is Jesus' description of the results of the Roman/Jewish War in A. D. 67-70. That description does not in any was reduce the meaning of verse 20 - simply, Jesus' reign is not earthly-founded. It is in the midst, the hearts, of believers.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

No, the preterist view can not be supported.

 

[Josheb]

Exactly! That is what I pointed out in my comment about Luke 17:20. Trying to prove something from one verse and yet ignoring 20 more right after that disprove the entire argument.

Yes, please stop wasting our time with your silly observations that have no Scriptural support. Throwing the baby out with the bath water is not how you study prophecy - or any Scripture, for that matter.

Trolling

 

[Josheb]

No, the preterist view can not be supported.

Prove it.

 

[EarlyActs]

Eclipse, what follows Luke 17:20 is Jesus' description of the results of the Roman/Jewish War in A. D. 67-70. That description does not in any was reduce the meaning of verse 20 - simply, Jesus' reign is not earthly-founded. It is in the midst, the hearts, of believers.

It is in their hearts, but don't neglect the objective element: that the resurrection is the enthronement of Christ, acc. to Acts 2-4, 13, Eph 1, Rom 1, Phil 2, Heb 1. That does not mean a change of the world, but rather that it is an imperative kingdom: man should obey the Son or be dashed to pieces. This is what we should preach, not 'prophecy-expertisms'.