Does, or can, our eschatological beliefs have an effect on our soteriology?

[Carbon]

Yes

Some thin it is by being baptized in water or
Going to Church or confessing every sin you commit or taking communion or religious sacraments

Right, some do indeed. What do you think it is?

They will beg Jesus and Jesus will say depart for I never knew you

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Right, some do indeed. What do you think it is?

I go back to cain, then If you look at Paganism or babylonialism, it’s all about good works. Jews got caught up in it. Catholics followed right behind.

Look at every major religion on earth. Its all about works..

I believe (i could be wrong) satan had a lot to do with it. Religious feels good to our human nature.. so its easy to fall for its trap

 

[Carbon]

I go back to cain, then If you look at Paganism or babylonialism, it’s all about good works. Jews got caught up in it. Catholics followed right behind.

Look at every major religion on earth. Its all about works..

I believe (i could be wrong) satan had a lot to do with it. Religious feels good to our human nature.. so its easy to fall for its trap

Okay, thanks. Nothing specific, no examples?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Okay, thanks. Nothing specific, no examples?

Cain used human good.. And it was rejected by God. Abel did what God commanded. Cain Got angry and killed him.

Babylon was a works based religion. Sacrifices appeased the angry Gods

The jews not only played the harlot with these, But they thought their religion, or works of the law is what made them right with God.

Like I said there is a sect of christianity that believes we must be immersed in water to be saved. Much like many jews believed you had to have faith plus circumcision

A largest church I believe in the last 2000 years teaches we get to heaven via a sacramental system of works. And acts of penants.

Those that teach we are saved by Grace through faith alone in the work of God alobe are so few and far between.. is this what you’re looking for?

 

[Carbon]

Cain used him an good.. And it was rejected by God. Abel did what God commanded. Cain God angry and killed him.

Babylon was a works based religion. Sacrifices appeased the angry Gods

The jews not only played the harlot with these, But they thought their religion, or works of the law is what made them right with God.

Like I said there is a sect of christianity that believes we must be immersed in water to be saved. Much like many jews believed you had to have faith plus circumcision

A largest church I believe in the last 2000 years teaches we get to heaven v=ia a sacramental system of works. And acts of penants.

Those that teach we are saved by Grace through faith alone in the work of God alobne are so few and far between.. is this what you’re looking for?

Thanks.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Thanks.

YW. Sorry for all the misspellings. I am trying to do this on my phone. I usually catch them after the fact..lol

 

[Carbon]

YW. Sorry for all the misspellings. I am trying to do this on my phone. I usually catch them after the fact..lol

No problem, and I do the same thing.

 

[TMSO]

Thanks for explaining a bit about God's supposed 2 plans.

Just understand that calling the times of the Gentiles a parenthesis, is not creating another plan. It is showing that the times of the Gentiles is a gap/time frame where Daniel 9 is on pause, while Jesus gathers the flock of another fold that isn't His. That is to say, the one's who "are His" are those of Israel, since Israel is God's chosen people. He made them His. It is in name only, while only those who are descendants of Abraham through Isaac are His adopted children in Israel. His elect within the nation of Israel.

Again, there is only ONE PLAN. Why would you say that a fellow brother, saved by the blood of Christ, believes there is more than one way of salvation? Slander them who are just as saved as you are, by saying they are heretics because of some supposed belief that they believe God has two plans of redemption, with only one being through Christ?

 

[TMSO]

Yes. And then all isreal will be saved. And this world will have been spared an extinction event and all who endure (Jew and gentile) will witness Jesus return and praise God. Will
The unbelieving will be killed

We differ only slightly. I believe the unbelieving will be dead, as they will have died when Jesus returned. My understanding is that all unbelievers will be a part of the beasts armies, and none of them survive. The 2/3rds of Israel will perish, and all that remain are the 1/3rd that are purged and purified. (Zechariah). The return to Israel will be personal, as we see in Zechariah. The final redemption of the elect of Israel. The last part of the single plan of redemption. Everyone else alive is already saved/redeemed. God planned out a special show in the final redemption of the elect of Israel. He remains faithful to Israel to the end, and He shows it to them visibly. I think that is part of the reason they mourn in the end.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

We differ only slightly. I believe the unbelieving will be dead, as they will have died when Jesus returned.

I agree..

My understanding is that all unbelievers will be a part of the beasts armies, and none of them survive. The 2/3rds of Israel will perish, and all that remain are the 1/3rd that are purged and purified. (Zechariah). The return to Israel will be personal, as we see in Zechariah. The final redemption of the elect of Israel. The last part of the single plan of redemption. Everyone else alive is already saved/redeemed. God planned out a special show in the final redemption of the elect of Israel. He remains faithful to Israel to the end, and He shows it to them visibly. I think that is part of the reason they mourn in the end.

hmm. I read in romans 11 all Israel will be saved. Can you show give more detailed verse that shows 3/2 will perish? I would like to research this some more

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Just understand that calling the times of the Gentiles a parenthesis, is not creating another plan. It is showing that the times of the Gentiles is a gap/time frame where Daniel 9 is on pause, while Jesus gathers the flock of another fold that isn't His. That is to say, the one's who "are His" are those of Israel, since Israel is God's chosen people. He made them His. It is in name only, while only those who are descendants of Abraham through Isaac are His adopted children in Israel. His elect within the nation of Israel.

Again, there is only ONE PLAN. Why would you say that a fellow brother, saved by the blood of Christ, believes there is more than one way of salvation? Slander them who are just as saved as you are, by saying they are heretics because of some supposed belief that they believe God has two plans of redemption, with only one being through Christ?

I see the time of the gentiles the fulfillment of Dan 2 and Dan 7. when the final gentile beast is destroyed at the return of Christ. and yes, also the end of Daniels 70th week of Dan 9

 

[Eleanor]

Well, they are obsessed with taking everything literal.

But God said he gave prophecy in riddles not clearly understood (Nu 12:6-8).

 

[Eleanor]

Not everything. Only prophecy

And yet God said he gives prophecy in riddles, and not clearly (Nu 12:6-8).

"Houston, we have a problem."

 

[Arial]

And yet God said he gives prophecy in riddles, and not clearly (Nu 12:6-8).

"Houston, we have a problem."

Do you ever get the feeling from responses that people are not carefully reading what you say?

 

[Eleanor]

Everyone is saved by grace
Lev 26 gives gods requirement for God to remember his Promise

Lev 26 contains the covenant blessings for obedience (Lev 26:4-13), the covenant curses for disobedience (Lev 26:14-39), the remedy to remove the curses (Lev 26:40-41) and the mercies they would receive upon their repentance (Lev 26:42-45)..

They Must not only confess their sins but the sins of the fathers

Because they were in agreement with them.
They must also humble their hearts and submit to God's justice as penalty for their sin (Lev 26:41)

and confess Jesus punished them because of their sins

There was no Jesus in the time of Leviticus.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Numbers 12: 6 - 8

6 Then He said,

“Hear now My words:
If there is a prophet among you, I, the Lord, make Myself known to him in a vision; I speak to him in a dream.
7 Not so with My servant Moses; He is faithful in all My house. 8 I speak with him face to face, Even plainly dark sayings; And he sees the form of the Lord. Why then were you not afraid To speak against My servant Moses?”

This does not say God speaks to anyone in riddles. it says he speaks to prophets in a dream. He spoke to Moses face to face.

If a thing any prophet says does not come to pass. God calls him a false prophet. and he should not be listened too

Deuteronomy 18:22
when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

Prophecy is God declaring things before they occur.

Is 42: 9 Behold, the former things have come to pass,
And new things I declare; Before they spring forth I tell you of them.”

What I said before. they have come to pass. i tell you new things before they happen. and they too will come to pass

Is 44:
“This is what the Lord says—
Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty:
I am the first and I am the last;
apart from me there is no God.
7 Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it.
Let him declare and lay out before me
what has happened since I established my ancient people,
and what is yet to come—
yes, let them foretell what will come.
8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid.
Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago?
You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me?
No, there is no other Rock; I know not one.”

here is the most direct purpose of prophecy as spoken of By God.

1. I am the first and last (alpha and Omega)
2. WHo is like me? Let HIM proclaim, and lay out to the world what has happened to Israel and what WILL happen, (What will be yet to come)
3. Let them FORETELL WHAT WILL COME
4. Did I not foretell it long ago. Is there a God like me, there is non like me..

If prophecy is not taken literally. Then we have no proof that God said a thing.. Any God can make it appear he can predict the future (nostridomus as an example) but only God says things before they happen, and they happen

 

[Eleanor]

Do you ever get the feeling from responses that people are not carefully reading what you say?

And don't really have a grasp of the issues?

 

[Eleanor]

Numbers 12: 6 - 8

6 Then He said,

“Hear now My words:
If there is a prophet among you, I, the Lord, make Myself known to him in a vision; I speak to him in a dream.
7 Not so with My servant Moses; He is faithful in all My house. 8 I speak with him face to face, Even plainly dark sayings;

1) Why did you alter v. 8 which reads:
"With him (Moses) I speak mouth to mouth (face to face), even apparently (plainly) and not in dark sayings."

And he sees the form of the Lord. Why then were you not afraid To speak against My servant Moses?”

This does not say God speaks to anyone in riddles. it says he speaks to prophets in a dream. He spoke to Moses face to face.

What do you think God means when in Nu 12:6-8 he contrasts the way he speaks
to Moses - "plainly and not in dark sayings," ("riddles" is a good description of "dark--unable to see into--sayings") but
to all other prophets - "in visions. . .dreams" (subject to more than one interpretation)?

 

[TMSO]

I agree..

hmm. I read in romans 11 all Israel will be saved. Can you show give more detailed verse that shows 3/2 will perish? I would like to research this some more

2/3rds perish in the Great Tribulation. Zechariah says that the population will be divided in thirds, 2/3rds will perish, 1/3rd will be purged.

Zechariah 13:8 "“And it will come about in all the land,” Declares the LORD, “That two parts in it will be cut off and perish; But the third will be left in it."

The third left are the ones who are saved. Remember, Paul said not all who are Israel are of Israel. It is those who are of Israel that are covered by "all Israel will be saved." It is the remnant that is actually Israel. I beleive at the end of Revelation 19, when Jesus comes to Jersualem and is recognized as King, that the only ones still alive are the remnant/elect of the time. They will be saved there personally by Jesus, like when Jesus saved Paul, except this will be a large number of people.

 

[TMSO]

I see the time of the gentiles the fulfillment of Dan 2 and Dan 7. when the final gentile beast is destroyed at the return of Christ. and yes, also the end of Daniels 70th week of Dan 9

I see it in Luke where Jesus says the Gentiles will trample on Jerusalem until the end. It also says that the Jews will be scattered throughout the nations. I see that as an exile that finds the beginning of its end in 1948. Jerusalem is still trampled on (so to speak), but God has gathered the Jews back to Israel for the beginning of the end.