Does, or can, our eschatological beliefs have an effect on our soteriology?

[makesends]

it seems odd to say, since we all are the body of Christ. But I think it effects many things. and can even effect the way we walk

It has been said by some scientist in the field of 'Science of Probability' (or something like that), that every thing affects everything! Actually, I don't believe in 'probability', except, as RC Sproul says, "Chance is a shortcut for 'I don't know.'", but it is interesting how causation works. There's always more we don't know.

But, I expect you were talking about the way we walk with Christ, and you are right, there:

The dispensationalist may be motivated by the urgency of the near coming of Christ, while the Amillennialist may be motivated by the urgency of killing of the 'Old Man'. (The Arminian/Pelagian may walk in willed self-denial, 'because it is the way' to walk, while the Calvinist may walk in the confidence and relief of dependence on God's mercy.)

So to me, while one's Eschatological view may affect everything else they believe and choose and do, it is more, what is behind that view, or better, what mindset that enabled or induced that view, that affects the way they walk.

 

[Eleanor]

I have asked this question elsewhere, but here it is again.
Can our prophetic interpretation influence or condition our understanding of salvation by faith?

If it's not salvation by faith in the person and atoning work of Jesus Christ for the remission of our sin, it can.

Doesn’t each eschatological system have its own form of hermeneutical methods? I believe they do and effect how we understand scripture in general.
Can our view affect the way we view and understand God’s wrath on Christ on the cross?

 

[Eleanor]

A few thoughts to start with this.
In dispensationalism, God has two plans for to peoples.
One plan for Israel and another for the church.
I believe looking at the cross in the dipsy way could influence one’s beliefs on this.
Are the sacrifices something that will, after Christ returns be re-established in the 1000-year earthly millennium?
Or, we’re these sacrifices types and shadows, which are fulfilled in Christ?

The mistake is interpreting prophetic (Rev 1:3) riddles (Nu 12:6-8) literally, even when it contradicts authoritative NT apostolic teaching (Lk 10:16).

For the most part, they are obsessed with prophetic riddles over (NT) stated doctrine.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

It has been said by some scientist in the field of 'Science of Probability' (or something like that), that every thing affects everything! Actually, I don't believe in 'probability', except, as RC Sproul says, "Chance is a shortcut for 'I don't know.'", but it is interesting how causation works. There's always more we don't know.

But, I expect you were talking about the way we walk with Christ, and you are right, there:

The dispensationalist may be motivated by the urgency of the near coming of Christ, while the Amillennialist may be motivated by the urgency of killing of the 'Old Man'. (The Arminian/Pelagian may walk in willed self-denial, 'because it is the way' to walk, while the Calvinist may walk in the confidence and relief of dependence on God's mercy.)

So to me, while one's Eschatological view may affect everything else they believe and choose and do, it is more, what is behind that view, or better, what mindset that enabled or induced that view, that affects the way they walk.

Dispensations, or ages.

Dispensationalist try to put all of human history into ages, or different categories in an attempt to help the child of God to understand different things in these ages.

The age of innocence for example. It is different than the age after the fall. If we try to interpret what happened in the time of innocence. By using things that happened after the fall. We will not be able to really understand.

We are currently in the age, or dispensational of the church. Again, if we try to interpret things in this age, by trying to use things that happened in the age of Israel or the law. we will not be able to understand things in this age.

We also look at prophecy as God foretelling this which will happen. God uses this as a tool for those alive when these things are fulfilled (much like the time of Christ. The jews whould have recognized the time, and events, because prophecy was being fulfilled

Now using this, there is prophecy by which has not been fulfilled. Events which have not happened in all history.

The dispensation ist would say these are future events, we interpret all prophecy, be it the prophecy of the suffering servant, or the nation of Israel which has been fulfilled the same, using presidents. If all prophecy fulfilled were literally completed when and how God said, then all prophecy should be the same

Sadly, once again, A lot of people think they know what we believe, But I think it is by what they have been taught we believe, not by actually talking to us.. (i know I have done this myself in the past_

 

[Eleanor]

Dispensations, or ages.
Dispensationalist try to put all of human history into ages, or different categories in an attempt to help the child of God to understand different things in these ages.
The age of innocence for example. It is different than the age after the fall. If we try to interpret what happened in the time of innocence. By using things that happened after the fall. We will not be able to really understand.
We are currently in the age, or dispensational of the church. Again, if we try to interpret things in this age, by trying to use things that happened in the age of Israel or the law. we will not be able to understand things in this age.
We also look at prophecy as God foretelling this which will happen. God uses this as a tool for those alive when these things are fulfilled (much like the time of Christ. The jews whould have recognized the time, and events, because prophecy was being fulfilled
Now using this, there is prophecy by which has not been fulfilled. Events which have not happened in all history.
The dispensation ist would say these are future events, we interpret all prophecy, be it the prophecy of the suffering servant, or the nation of Israel which has been fulfilled the same, using presidents. If all prophecy fulfilled were literally completed when and how God said, then all prophecy should be the same

Sadly, once again, A lot of people think they know what we believe, But I think it is by what they have been taught we believe, not by actually talking to us.. (i know I have done this myself in the past_

Do dispensationalists not believe in
1) a future "millennial" kingdom on earth, thereby necessitating
2) two second comings, two first resurrections, two last trumpets (each before and the after the "tribulation"),
3) two bodies of Christ, one on earth during the "tribulation," and the other in heaven,
4) two temporal Messianic kingdoms, the one Christ inaugurates at his first coming (Da 2:44, Lk 11:20, Jn 18:36, Ro 14:17) and
the one dispensationalism inaugurates at Christ's second second; i.e., third, coming,
5) two final world battles and two final judgments following the two temporal Messianic kingdoms, all the above being
the one presented in NT apostolic teaching and the other presented in personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly (Nu 12:6-8)?

 

[Arial]

Sadly, once again, A lot of people think they know what we believe, But I think it is by what they have been taught we believe, not by actually talking to us.. (i know I have done this myself in the past_

A great many of us here, possibly all, who disagree with Dispensationalism, began steeped in only that "ism". So we do know what it teaches. We have lived it.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Satan has never been bound. If we look at the world. and think satan has been or is bound, and read the prophecies concerning this time, and the peace that Jesus will bring with it. We can not come to the conclusion satan is or ever has been bound.

Christ contradicts your viewpoint. He said in Mark 3:27 and Matthew 12:29 that the very reason why He was able to cast devils out of people in those days was evidence that Satan had already "FIRST" been bound, even before Christ's earthly ministry began. The "strong man" in Christ's illustration (meaning Satan) had "FIRST" been bound, and THEN as proof of Satan having already been bound, his "goods" were being spoiled by Christ casting out devils from those in Israel during His earthly ministry.

This means the millennium of Satan's deception of the nations being bound had already begun, even before Christ's earthly ministry. That literal thousand-year millennium ENDED with the "First resurrection", as John wrote in Revelation 20:5. The literal millennium is a PAST period of time, ending in AD 33 with Christ's resurrection (and that of the Matthew 27:52-53 saints).

There is no two sided salvation system. Dispensational theology (mainstream) does not teach this. it is an offshoot of the mainstream that are few in number.

Of course, I agree that God never designed a two-sided salvation system. The means of salvation has always been "Christ in you, the hope of glory", from Adam onward. Paul said this was a mystery that was hidden from past ages, but was revealed in New Testament times.

But in actuality, Premil-disp. adherents do teach a two-sided salvation system with their continued segregated treatment of Jews and Gentiles - categories that are not included in the revelation of the New Covenant where there is only "One New Man", with "One fold, and One Shepherd".

When did this happen.
will this happen,
if you do not think it will. why not?

Zech 14: 16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

I realize this was addressed to Carbon, but this Zechariah 14:16 passage is NOT describing Rev. 20 millennial conditions. It is describing life on earth AFTER Christ's AD 70 bodily return to the Mount of Olives, AFTER the Zechariah chapter 12-14 "siege both against Judah and Jerusalem" back in AD 66-70. We today are currently living in this "year to year" period of history following Christ's second coming described in Zechariah 14:4-5.

Anybody from any nation who refuses to worship Christ Jesus, the Lord of hosts in this NEW Jerusalem reality which has been established will not receive the blessing of righteousness - which is what the "rain" represents. "Rain" was used to portray the blessing of righteousness from God back in the OT (Hosea 10:12, Isaiah 45:8, for example). "Egypt" in these Zechariah 14:18-19 verses is merely one of the pejorative spiritual titles which was given to Old Jerusalem (Revelation 11:8), the city where our Lord was crucified.

The Zechariah 14:16-19 mention of the Feast of Tabernacles is NOT teaching a restoration of animal sacrifices, or of the Old Covenant rituals. It is a sort of "save-the-date" alert for believers to mark on their calendars. It predicts the exact time of year in our future when Christ will stage His next return to this planet for the culmination of fallen mankind's history with the final judgment and the third bodily resurrection event.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

A great many of us here, possibly all, who disagree with Dispensationalism, began steeped in only that "ism". So we do know what it teaches. We have lived it.

Yet they claimed things which dispensationalism does not teach

Kind of hard to say you lived it then show you do not understand it

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Christ contradicts your viewpoint. He said in Mark 3:27 and Matthew 12:29 that the very reason why He was able to cast devils out of people in those days was evidence that Satan had already "FIRST" been bound, even before Christ's earthly ministry began. The "strong man" in Christ's illustration (meaning Satan) had "FIRST" been bound, and THEN as proof of Satan having already been bound, his "goods" were being spoiled by Christ casting out devils from those in Israel during His earthly ministry.

satan is not deceiving nations anymore and has not for the past 2000 years?

Please do not say you want me to believe this.

 

[Arial]

Yet they claimed things which dispensationalism does not teach

Like what? And who claimed it? Without that information, how can we know the truthfulness of the statement?

 

[3 Resurrections]

satan is not deceiving nations anymore and has not for the past 2000 years?

Please do not say you want me to believe this.

Satan and the entire realm of devils and unclean spirits are all as dead as a doornail since God destroyed them entirely in Jerusalem's AD 70 Lake of Fire, as scripture predicted He would do. It is your choice whether or not you choose to believe the OT and NT scriptures which teach this.

Any evil committed on earth since AD 70 and the destruction of the entire Satanic realm has been solely due to the wicked impulses emerging from the hearts of fallen mankind. Just as Christ once said, "For FROM WITHIN, OUT OF THE HEART OF MEN, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, DECEIT, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: ALL these evil things come FROM WITHIN, and defile the man." (Mark 7 :21-22). No Satanic contribution mentioned here AT ALL.

Satan with his temptation of the original pair got the ball roling with rebellion against God back in the Garden of Eden, but since then, fallen mankind has been completely capable of performing and imagining all sorts of evil by themselves. People seek to pass the buck to Satan for their sinful proclivities, but since AD 70, that is not even possible anymore. Humanity has no one to blame but themselves for any deception occurring in this world at present.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Satan and the entire realm of devils and unclean spirits are all as dead as a doornail since God destroyed them entirely in Jerusalem's AD 70 Lake of Fire, as scripture predicted He would do. It is your

Yet we are warned satan is like a touring lion seeking who to devour

If you think satan is bound your not helping a brother who may be influenced by him

 

[Hazelelponi]

For those dedicated to learning, here is a lovely MP3 audio series here, it's a Voddie Baucham sermon series expositing through the book of Revelation.

Exposition of the Book of Revelation (MP3 Series) by Voddie Baucham | Monergism

Voddie Baucham wears many hats. He is a husband, father, pastor, author, professor, conference speaker and church planter. He currently serves as Pastor of

www.monergism.com

And here's a link with an introduction about the Covenants

Reformed Theology Is Covenant Theology by Richard Pratt Jr.

Reformed theology is often associated with “covenant theology.” If you listen carefully, you’ll often hear pastors and teachers describe themselves as “Reformed

learn.ligonier.org

Our God is a God of Covenants, if I was an ethnic Hebrew I would still be under the same covenant as you, (there's only one in our time, it's the Covenant in Christs blood, or the New Covenant) if I happened to be saved, or I would need to become saved by faith in order to enter into Covenant with God. Blood no longer matters in that sense.

It's now a relationship, a Covenant, that transcends blood, because it was written in Christ's and He bought us all, all God's children from every nation and tribe.

There's no dispensations called church age etc. God is a God of Covenants and He doesn't change.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Yet we are warned satan is like a touring lion seeking who to devour

Correction: 1 Peter 5:8 was warning his own first-century generation that Satan THEN was walking about as a roaring lion, seeking those whom he could devour with his deception. That was a wrathful, released Satan who was THEN operating during that predicted "little season" and "short time" after the millennium had ended in AD 33. He and his devils had been cast out of heaven down to earth at that point after he had lost the war in heaven with Michael and his angels (Revelation 12:12). The newly-ascended Christ in AD 33 was responsible for Satan losing his ability to accuse the brethren at that point in time when the millennium had ended in AD 33.

Naturally, since Satan realized he had only a "short time" left to operate in this world, his anger against mankind on earth was accelerated greatly back then, just as Christ had forewarned His own first-century generation of Jewish brethren that demonic activity would return in seven-fold numbers more wicked than before, so that Israel's "last state" would be worse than its "first state" when Christ had been casting out devils from them (Matthew 12:43-45).

If you think satan is bound your not helping a brother who may be influenced by him

On the contrary, I am helping believers to realize just which enemy they no longer have to contend with in this world. This is good news that God has already destroyed this our great enemy for us. God prophesied that He would slay that Dragon with His great and strong sword (Isaiah 27:1). He also told that formerly anointed cherub who had been in Eden that He would bring a fire out of him and burn him to ashes upon the earth so that "never shalt thou exist anymore" (Ezekiel 28:18-19).

What believers have left to contend with is wicked fallen humanity which Christ once called "the children of the devil", and the evil impulses of our own nature which Paul said caused himself so much conflict.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Correction: 1 Peter 5:8 was warning his own first-century generation that Satan THEN was walking about as a roaring lion, seeking those whom he could devour with his deception. That was a wrathful, released Satan who was THEN operating during that predicted "little season" and "short time" after the millennium had ended in AD 33. He and his devils had been cast out of heaven down to earth at that point after he had lost the war in heaven with Michael and his angels (Revelation 12:12). The newly-ascended Christ in AD 33 was responsible for Satan losing his ability to accuse the brethren at that point in time when the millennium had ended in AD 33.

Naturally, since Satan realized he had only a "short time" left to operate in this world, his anger against mankind on earth was accelerated greatly back then, just as Christ had forewarned His own first-century generation of Jewish brethren that demonic activity would return in seven-fold numbers more wicked than before, so that Israel's "last state" would be worse than its "first state" when Christ had been casting out devils from them (Matthew 12:43-45).


On the contrary, I am helping believers to realize just which enemy they no longer have to contend with in this world. This is good news that God has already destroyed this our great enemy for us. God prophesied that He would slay that Dragon with His great and strong sword (Isaiah 27:1). He also told that formerly anointed cherub who had been in Eden that He would bring a fire out of him and burn him to ashes upon the earth so that "never shalt thou exist anymore" (Ezekiel 28:18-19).

What believers have left to contend with is wicked fallen humanity which Christ once called "the children of the devil", and the evil impulses of our own nature which Paul said caused himself so much conflict.

I do not see how you can look in the world and not see satans influence in the world.

The OT states when satan is bound there will be peace.

If the last 2 thousand years has been peace. I do not think I have much to look forward to in the future.

Stan was not bound in 70 AD (Although I will say, your the first person I ever heard say this, most amill believers say he was bound at the cross)

 

[3 Resurrections]

I do not see how you can look in the world and not see satans influence in the world.

I look at the conditions in the world today, and see evidence of the evil which Satan's Garden of Eden temptation jumpstarted. Humanity by succumbing to that temptation became fully capable of exercising and imagining every sort of evil that is committed today in this world. Neither Satan's influence nor his presence are REQUIRED for evil to be perpetuated by mankind.

The OT states when satan is bound there will be peace.

The stipulations for the Revelation 20 millennium only state that Satan's deception of the nations would be bound for that specific period. That is the only characteristic mentioned for this span of time. The literal thousand-year millennium began with the foundation stone of Solomon's temple being laid down in 968 / 967 BC. But if you want to press the point, Solomon's very name means "peace", does it not?

God gave the nation of Israel peace from the wars which saturated Kind David's reign, so that the fame of Solomon's kingdom and the magnificent temple which he built would spread the knowledge of the God of Israel among all the nations at that time. THAT is how Satan's deception of the nations was bound from that launching point until AD 33 when the millennium ended - a literal thousand-year period of a God-sanctioned physical temple worship system. This merely provided a precursor to the spiritual temple not made with hands, with Christ established on His resurrection-day ascension in AD 33 as the spiritual temple's true foundation stone - the "chief cornerstone" which the builders had rejected.

If the last 2 thousand years has been peace. I do not think I have much to look forward to in the future.

Have you forgotten the prophecy concerning Christ - that "of the increase of His government and of HIS PEACE there shall be no end"? This is not worldly peace such as the world gives. It is "peace that passeth understanding". It is peace between God and man, which has steadily increased with every conversion which God brings about.

Stan was not bound in 70 AD (Although I will say, your the first person I ever heard say this, most amill believers say he was bound at the cross)

You are right - I did not say that Satan was bound in AD 70. Neither was he bound at the cross. His millennial "chain" was removed at the resurrection-day ascension of Christ. After Satan's "short time" of release began in AD 33, he was DESTROYED in AD 70 so that "never shalt thou exist anymore", as God predicted for that formerly anointed cherub (Ez. 28:18-19).

We can know from comparing scripture (Rev. 12:12) and Christ's statements (such as John 12:31 and John 14:30) that Satan was going to be cast out of heaven down to the earth to oppress humankind for only a "short time" AFTER Christ's resurrection-day ascension to the Father. That "short time" and "little season" of Satan's renewed deception of the nations was launched when the millennium "expired" after that "First resurrection" in AD 33. Satan's ability to accuse the brethren in heaven was annulled that day, but God allowed a cast-out Satan that brief interval on earth between AD 33 and AD 70 to harass and deceive the inhabitants of the world once more, before He destroyed Satan and his entire evil angelic realm in Jerusalem's Lake of Fire when the city was dying its "second death".

The literal millennium is a past period of time, ever since it "expired" in AD 33, and Satan's entire evil angelic realm is a past, dead enemy since AD 70.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I do not see how you can look in the world and not see satans influence in the world.

The OT states when satan is bound there will be peace.

If the last 2 thousand years has been peace. I do not think I have much to look forward to in the future.

Stan was not bound in 70 AD (Although I will say, your the first person I ever heard say this, most amill believers say he was bound at the cross)

We were never promised worldly peace, though we pray for it and it's lovely to have. A true blessing from God when it exists. But the history of mankind is war, and so long as we have fallen man and fallen flesh, we will continue to have war and have to deal with it.

The peace we have is in Christ - it's always in Him.

When I was first saved the first verses I saw as most important was Deuteronomy, that was most important.

"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart." (Deuteronomy 6:4-6)

Next was the verses from Jeremiah 31:31-33

"Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people."

And the third is this one:

"Why do you say, O Jacob,
and speak, O Israel,
“My way is hidden from the Lord,
and my right is disregarded by my God”

"28 Have you not known? Have you not heard? The Lord is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary; his understanding is unsearchable. 29 He gives power to the faint and to him who has no might he increases strength.30 Even youths shall faint and be weary, and young men shall fall exhausted; 31 but they who wait for the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles; they shall run and not be weary; they shall walk and not faint."

These are mine. These are the most important verses to me.

In the New Covenant, we have an amazing amazing relationship with God.

And even more amazing is that after we pass from this life to the next and truly stand before God in the fullness of His presence, physical pain and weakness long forgotten... It's going to be something beyond words or descriptions, but in His presence, perhaps just perhaps we can express the fullness of our gratitude and thankfulness for His Mercy shown.

We don't need ease here, we need to be preparing ourselves and others to stand in the fullness of His presence without dying, which is to say, share the Gospel and any good advice we might have.

Why don't we need ease. Because we are here to truly know God, to witness the Majesty of His Glory and sing the praises of His Glory that we ourselves have witnessed. This is why we are stood upon this earth.

And, while that's a theme from 2 Peter 1:16-18 We are still witnessing because this is how we overcome the world, by the word of our testimony and God has done a mighty work in creation, and an utter miracle in our re-creation.

We don't need a Satan free world, he is prevented from deceiving the nations until the end, not from tempting us. But we have power in Christ. Satan might bite, but the second death is all that matters, and Satan has no witness against us, Christ is our mediator before God - rendering Satan utterly powerless.

We don't need patches of dirt, we need Christ. The dirt is just a place to worship God from until we meet Him again, and Christ already owns it. It is to Him to do with it as He will, and to us to follow His will only.

 

[Eleanor]

I have asked this question elsewhere, but here it is again.

Can our prophetic interpretation influence or condition our understanding of salvation by faith?

It can affect your Christology regarding 2 Co 1:20, Col 2:17, Gal 3:16, 22, 28-29.

Doesn’t each eschatological system have its own form of hermeneutical methods? I believe they do and effect how we understand scripture in general.

Can our view affect the way we view and understand God’s wrath on Christ on the cross?

 

[Arial]

The OT states when satan is bound there will be peace.

Where does it state that? My Bible says there will be peace when Christ returns, destroys Satan rather than bind him, and all who follow him, the lion lies down with the lamb, and the bear grazes as the ox, all tears are wiped away, no more sorrow or death, and most amazing of all, God will dwell with us. He will be our God and we will be his people.

Rev tells us that Satan is bound for a thousand years from doing a particular thing. Deceiving the nations. Given that we know God will be gather his elect until the last one comes in, and then Christ returns; and given that between his resurrection and ascension and his return, his people are being gathered through the preaching of the saints, and to all nations; it is most likely that a thousand, as in years, is representative language. Revelation is written in symbols and representatives that appear in the visions. A thousand is used elsewhere in the Bible as figurative for a long period of time without the end boundary being set, and as an uncountable multitude.

It stands to reason then that Satan is bound from stopping the gospel going to all nations, from stopping the ingathering of his people. When he is released for a short time, if one is left alive when that happens, they better hope they were not counting on being raptured out of here. It is likely to become a world wide (nations) persecution of Christians and Christian institutions. They better hope that they had not been so attuned to the signs they see in the world to interpret his coming, that they did not neglect him, but have grown instead in trusting that, God is able to send ravens to feed the starving, bring water out of a stone, be very present if it is death or denial of Christ, to hold them steady and carry them through to the other side. That they have spent their time well in learning of him and leaning in so, if it comes to that, and in all the "smaller" ways that are simply compromising with the world in order to hide from persecution, (which many to right now and every day) we will be able to stand as Polycarp did when he was tied to a stake and covered with oil over the funeral pyre.

Polycarp’s Last Words​

“O Lord God Almighty, the Father of Your beloved and blessed Son Jesus Christ, by whom we have received the knowledge of You, the God of angels and powers, and of every creature, and of the whole race of the righteous who live before you, I give thanks that You have counted me, worthy of this day and this hour, that I should have a part in the number of Thy martyrs, in the cup of thy Christ, to the resurrection of eternal life, both of soul and body, through the incorruption imparted by the Holy Ghost. Among whom may I be accepted this day before You as a fat and acceptable sacrifice, just as You, the ever-truthful God, hast fore-ordained, by reveling it beforehand to me, and now fulfilling. Because of this I also praise You for all things, I bless You, I glorify Thee, along with the everlasting and heavenly Jesus Christ, Your beloved Son, with whom, to You, and the Holy Ghost, be glory both now and to all coming ages. Amen.”

 

[Hazelelponi]

@Arial

And it will get much much worse for God's people before this is finished. I definitely agree...