Does Colossians 2:16 abolish the Fourth Commandment?

[Soyeong]

As a shadow of a moral law (ceremonial) )They did nothing to the user .

It was a sign to the whole world not to their own dying flesh ,

God could use it as if it was a moral law to wake up the pew nappers . But the word rest is not a time sensitive word. According to Hebrew 4 its a 24\7 deal It should been given the english translation . Take away the confusion between the moral and the cerinimoinal .

What do you think the purpose of the ceremonial shadows is ? Buy one's way to heaven?

In Colossians 2:17, Paul said that God's holy days are foreshadows of what is to come, so we should live in a way that testifies about what is to come by continuing to observe them rather than a way that bears false witness against what is to come. In 1 Corinthians 5:6-8, Paul spoke in regard to how Passover foreshadowed Jesus by drawing the connection of him being our Passover Lamb, however, instead of concluding that we should no longer bother observing Passover, he concluded by saying that we should therefore continue to observe it.

In order to refer to the moral or ceremonial law, you should first show where the Bible refers to those as being a categories of law and then lists which laws belong in each of those categories because if you don't establish that your concept of the moral or ceremonial law is identical to a concept that the authors of the Bible had, then you are misinterpreting them by interpreting them as referring to a concept that you created.

To suggest that some of God's laws are not moral laws is to suggest that we can be acting morally while disobeying those laws, however, there is no example in the Bible where disobedience to any of God's laws was treated as being moral, nor do I see any reason to think that it can ever be moral to disobey God. Morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to obey God, so all of God's laws are inherently moral laws. Legislators give laws according to what they think ought to be done, so for someone to claim that some of God's laws are not moral laws is to claim that God made a moral error about what ought to be done when He gave those laws, and therefore to claim to have greater moral knowledge than God.

In Hebrews 4:9-11, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, we should rest from our works in accordance with how God rested from His works after six days of creation, and we should strive to enter into that rest so that no one may fall away by the same sort of disobedience, so Hebrews 4 does not support disobeying God's command to keep the 7th day holy, but just the opposite. We can't keep a principle while not keeping the examples that were given to testify about that principle.

 

[donadams]

The fourth commandment is “honor Thy father and mother”!

 

[Arial]

To explain why I disagree with what you've said.


In James 2:1-11, he was speaking to people who already sinned by showing favoritism, so he was not telling them that they needed to have perfect obedience because that would have already been too late and he was not trying to warn them away from choosing to obey God's law, but rather he was encouraging them to repent and to obey God's law more consistently. Walking in the Spirit by grace is never treated as an alternative to keeping God's law, but rather it is in accordance with keeping it, as I've shown with the verses that I've quoted where God is gracious to us by teaching us to obey it.

Likewise, in Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God. In John 16:!3, the Spirt has the role of leading us in truth, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, and in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of convicting us of sin, and in 1 John 3:4, sin is the transgression of God's law. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to God's law. In Galatians 5:19-23, every listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's law, while the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it. In Romans 2:25-29, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to God's law and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrasted with Acts 7:51-53, those who have uncircumcised hearts resit the Spirit and do not obey God's law.

So obedience to God's law is the way to worship Him in spirit and in truth and it is absurd to think that the kind of worshipers that the Father is looking for are those who refuse to follow His instructions for how to worship Him. It should not make sense to you to interpret the Bible as speaking against obeying what God has commanded or to think that God's commands lead us astray.

I asked this question before and it was never answered. And it is not directly answered here either. So I ask again, and in order for those who read your posts to have a clear picture of where you are coming from, and what you mean by keeping the law; do you keep portions of the Sinai covenant law, such as Sabbath keeping, the dietary laws, festival keeping? It is ok if you do if you feel not to would be sin. But if you do, do you also believe that all Christians are under this same obligation, and to not keep them is an indication of lack of faith?

 

[Soyeong]

No you can't. Words have meaning. You cannot agree with the statement while trying to apply a different meaning to what it actually says. Nowhere does it say the Law of the Spirit or the Law of Christ is the Mosaic Law. The Mosaic Law was given for a specific time to a specific people. So unless you are a Jew living between 1400bc to 30ad (approx) then you are not under the Mosaic Law.

Two people can agree that what the Bible says is true while disagreeing about how it should be interpreted. If I disagree with someone about what it means that Jesus came fulfill the law, then I am not disagreeing that Scripture says that he came to fulfill the law, so I can still agree with them that he fulfilled it.

Christ and the Spirit are God and the Law of Moses was given by God, so it is the Law of God/Christ/the Spirit, and it is referred to as the Law of God in verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:22-23. In Romans 7:25-8:2, Paul equated the Law of God with the Law of the Spirit of Life by contrasting them both with the law of sin and death, and in 1 Corinthians 9:21, Paul use a parallel statement to equate the Law of God with the Law of Christ. Christ was not in disagreement with what the Father commanded, so it does make sense to think that he gave his own law, especially when he said n John 14:24 that his teachings were not his own, but that of the Father.

While the Mosaic Law was specifically given to Israel, it was given to Israel to teach them how to have a relationship with the God of Israel and to equip them to be a light and a blessing to the nations by turning the nations from their wickedness and teaching them how to have a relationship with the God of Israel. It is contradictory for someone to want to have a relationship with the God of Israel while not wanting to follow His eternal instructions for how to do that.

No, not necessarily. People can obey instructions through fear of punishment or guilt or wanting to belong to a group. What motivates obedience to rules and regulations can have nothing to with faith in the one who set the rules. This is why we walk according to the Spirit by grace through faith and not according to rules and regulations. Following Christ is not a formula but a dynamic and living way. Anyone can follow a rule, few know how to rest in faith.

Granted people can have other motivations for doing something other than faith, but I was speaking about instructions where we are being taught to do something where following those instructions is about having faith in the one who taught us to correctly guide us. If I got lost and asked someone for directions, then by following their instructions I would be having faith in them to correctly guide me. While someone can have motivations other than faith for going through the motions of God's law, that is missing goal and is not really obeying it.

In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that tithing was something that they ought to be doing while not neglecting weightier matters of the law of justice, mercy, and faithfulness, so he was not in opposite to them following laws, but rather he was calling them to a fuller obedience to it in a manner that is in accordance with its weightier matters, which are aspects of God's nature that the Spirit has the role of leading us to express, but by expressing those aspects of God's nature, we are not doing something other than obeying God's law. I've cited verses that support that the Spirit has role of leading us to obey God's law, that God is gracious to us by teaching us to obey His law, and that obedience to God's law is the way to have faith, so walking in the Spirit by grace through faith does not refer to something other than following God's law, but it does refer to obeying it in a correct manner that is in accordance with its weightier matters.

Dispensationalism has nothing to do with the nature of God. It's about how He has dealt with people at different times throughout history. Was Noah under the Law? No, he wasn't, it was a different time (dispensation). It is the equivalent of how a parent treats a child of 2years compared to a 10yo. You have different expectations and different requirements for them to fulfill. In the same way God has dealt with humanity on the basis of different requirements over the course of history. Only the Jews were given the Mosaic Law. Sabbath keeping is part of that Law. Teaching Gentiles they have to keep the Sabbath is something even Moses did not do.

God's way is the way that He acts in accordance with His nature, such as by doing righteousness and justice (Genesis 18:19), and God's righteousness is eternal, so He has always dealt with people righteously throughout history and there are many verses that describe the Mosaic Law as being God's way, such as Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, 1 Kings 2:1-3, and Psalms 119:1-3, so the way to testify about God's righteousness is also eternal (Psalms 119:160).

In Psalms 119:29 and Exodus 33:13, they wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching them to walk in His way in obedience to His law. In Genesis 6:8-9, Noah found grace in the eyes of God, he was a righteous man, and he walked with God, so it was no accident that what he happened to be doing was righteous, but rather God was gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way in obedience to His law and he was righteous because he obeyed through faith. In Genesis 7:2, Noah was given instructions for what to do with clean and unclean animals without being told how to tell the difference, and in 8:20, he knew to offer a clean animal, so he must have been given laws in that regard.

The Sabbath is holy to God and what is holy God should not be profaned by man, so all of mankind would still be obligated to keep the Sabbath holy even if God had never commanded anyone to do that.

I have nothing more to say on the matter. Have a nice day

Have a nice day.

 

[Soyeong]

I asked this question before and it was never answered. And it is not directly answered here either. So I ask again, and in order for those who read your posts to have a clear picture of where you are coming from, and what you mean by keeping the law; do you keep portions of the Sinai covenant law, such as Sabbath keeping, the dietary laws, festival keeping? It is ok if you do if you feel not to would be sin.

Sorry if I missed your question. "God's law" straightforwardly refers to the laws that God has given. In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, Moses wrote down everything that God instructed without departing from it, so the Law of Moses is the Law of God and it is referred to as such in verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:22-23. Yes, I keep the Sabbath, dietary laws, and festivals as part of my obedience to God's law. It is by God's law that we ave knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20), so everyone who is required to refrain from sin is required to obey it.

But if you do, do you also believe that all Christians are under this same obligation, and to not keep them is an indication of lack of faith?

Yes, God is sovereign, so we are all under God's law and obligated to obey it. Let me put it like this: Do you think that we should rely on our own understanding of right and wrong by doing what is right in our own eyes or do you think that we should trust God with all of our heart to correctly divide between right and wrong through relying on what He has instructed (Proverbs 3:5-7)? God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust God is by trusting in what He has instructed while it is contradictory for someone to have faith in God while not having faith in what He has instructed. If someone does not have faith in what God has instructed, then they do not faith in Him.

The way that we choose to live expresses what we believe about the nature of who God is, so by doing good works in obedience to God's law we are testifying about God's goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5;16), which is also expressing the belief that God is good, in on other words, it is believing/trusting/having faith in Him. On the other hand, if someone chooses to refrain from doing good works, then they are living in a way that testifies that they believe that the God that they follow is not good, which is bearing false witness against the goodness of the God of Israel.

We see that God is wise by seeing that His followers are doing wise things in obedience to what He has instructed, and the same goes for things that are holy, righteous, good, just, merciful, loving, and so forth for other aspects of God's nature, so people who do those things are expressing that they believe that God is those things, which is trusting or having faith in Him. For example, if someone is not merciful, then they do not have faith in the mercy of God as the guide for how they should live, but if they believe that God is merciful, then they will be merciful to others.

 

[Arial]

Sorry if I missed your question. "God's law" straightforwardly refers to the laws that God has given. In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, Moses wrote down everything that God instructed without departing from it, so the Law of Moses is the Law of God and it is referred to as such in verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:22-23. Yes, I keep the Sabbath, dietary laws, and festivals as part of my obedience to God's law. It is by God's law that we ave knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20), so everyone who is required to refrain from sin is required to obey it.


Yes, God is sovereign, so we are all under God's law and obligated to obey it. Let me put it like this: Do you think that we should rely on our own understanding of right and wrong by doing what is right in our own eyes or do you think that we should trust God with all of our heart to correctly divide between right and wrong through relying on what He has instructed (Proverbs 3:5-7)? God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust God is by trusting in what He has instructed while it is contradictory for someone to have faith in God while not having faith in what He has instructed. If someone does not have faith in what God has instructed, then they do not faith in Him.

The way that we choose to live expresses what we believe about the nature of who God is, so by doing good works in obedience to God's law we are testifying about God's goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5;16), which is also expressing the belief that God is good, in on other words, it is believing/trusting/having faith in Him. On the other hand, if someone chooses to refrain from doing good works, then they are living in a way that testifies that they believe that the God that they follow is not good, which is bearing false witness against the goodness of the God of Israel.

We see that God is wise by seeing that His followers are doing wise things in obedience to what He has instructed, and the same goes for things that are holy, righteous, good, just, merciful, loving, and so forth for other aspects of God's nature, so people who do those things are expressing that they believe that God is those things, which is trusting or having faith in Him. For example, if someone is not merciful, then they do not have faith in the mercy of God as the guide for how they should live, but if they believe that God is merciful, then they will be merciful to others.

Thank you for answering the question.

 

[Soyeong]

The fourth commandment is “honor Thy father and mother”!

The principle of the fourth commandment to keep the Sabbath holy is the same as the principle of the ninth commandment against bearing false witness, whereas the principle of the fifth commandment to honor our parents is the same as the principle of the tenth Commandment against coveting in our hearts, but the principle of the commandment to honor our parents is not the same as the principle of the commandment against bearing false witness, so the structure of how you have ordered the commandments is incorrect.

 

[donadams]

The principle of the fourth commandment to keep the Sabbath holy is the same as the principle of the ninth commandment against bearing false witness, whereas the principle of the fifth commandment to honor our parents is the same as the principle of the tenth Commandment against coveting in our hearts, but the principle of the commandment to honor our parents is not the same as the principle of the commandment against bearing false witness, so the structure of how you have ordered the commandments is incorrect.

Who says? Scripture does not list them!

In context or subject matter there are nine commandments

Ten Commandments

Ex 20

Scripture has no list (1, 2, 3, etc.) of the Ten Commandments

According to subject matter or context:

First commandment: ex 20:2-6
One God

Second commandment: ex 20:7
God’s name

Third commandment: ex 20:8-11
God’s sabbath

Fourth commandment: ex 20:12
Parents

Fifth commandment: ex 20:13
Murder

Sixth commandment: ex 20:14
Adultery

Seventh commandment: ex 20:15
Theft

Eighth commandment: ex 20:16
Lying

Ninth commandment: ex 20:17
Coveting

Separating the two about coveting makes sense!

Ninth: Thou shalt not covet Thy neighbors goods.

Tenth: Thou shalt not covet Thy neighbor’s wife.

 

[Soyeong]

Who says? Scripture does not list them!

In context or subject matter there are nine commandments

Ten Commandments

Ex 20

Scripture has no list (1, 2, 3, etc.) of the Ten Commandments

According to subject matter or context:

First commandment: ex 20:2-6
One God

Second commandment: ex 20:7
God’s name

Third commandment: ex 20:8-11
God’s sabbath

Fourth commandment: ex 20:12
Parents

Fifth commandment: ex 20:13
Murder

Sixth commandment: ex 20:14
Adultery

Seventh commandment: ex 20:15
Theft

Eighth commandment: ex 20:16
Lying

Ninth commandment: ex 20:17
Coveting

Separating the two about coveting makes sense!

Ninth: Thou shalt not covet Thy neighbors goods.

Tenth: Thou shalt not covet Thy neighbor’s wife.

The first commandment is "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery", which is based structurally on the same principle as the sixth commandment against committing murder. The first five commandments are in regard to our relationship with our creators what the last five are in regard to our relationship with our neighbor, but you started counting after the second commandment and then split the tenth commandment against coveting into two commandments, which does not make any sense, especially because that destroys its parallel structure.

 

[donadams]

Who says you get to decide?

Your also in violation of context

 

[Soyeong]

Who says you get to decide?

Your also in violation of context

Who says you gets to decided?

There is one way of counting them that reveals an intentional parallel structure that clearly indicates how the author intended them to be counted, especially because the authors of the Bible were obsessive about its structure.

How am I in violation of context?

 

[donadams]

Who says you gets to decided?

There is one way of counting them that reveals an intentional parallel structure that clearly indicates how the author intended them to be counted, especially because the authors of the Bible were obsessive about its structure.

How am I in violation of context?

Subject matter of the first commandment is God and worship of God verses 2:6 next subject is the name of God etc.

 

[Soyeong]

Subject matter of the first commandment is God and worship of God verses 2:6 next subject is the name of God etc.

The subject matter of the 1st commandment is to value God and identify Him as a unique individual based on what He has done, which parallels the same principle as the six commandment against murder, which is a failure to recognize the value of our neighbor as a unique individual. Committing murder expresses the sentiment that they have no value and that we would be better off if they didn't exist, so while we can't murder God, we can fail to recognize Him as a unique individual and act like we would be better off if He didn't exist.

The second commandment is against idolatry, which is to our relationship with God what seventh commandment against adultery is to our relationship with our neighbor. However, you've combined the first two commandments and split the last commandment into two, which does not preserve the parallel structure that was intended by the author.

 

[Mr GLee]

In Hebrews 3:18-19, they did not enter into God's rest because of their unbelief/disobedience, and in Ezekiel 20:13, it specifically mentions that they greatly profaned God's Sabbaths, so someone refusing to keep the 7th day holy is hardening their heart.

Thanks, again the word rest is not a time sensitive word. Our source of rest is completed 7th day. Today if we mix faith with what we do then, any time we hear his voice and do not harden our heart but do what it says we have entered that eternal rest .No mixing of faith . . No rest it becomes a labor of one self-trying to enter rest or it would seem to.

Hebrews 4;1-2 King James Version Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it

Reasons are needed to be used as parables. . both examples same conclusion “rest”. . . . . not working to acquire rest. Work out, not work for. . For it is God who works in us empowering us who are powerless.

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Exodus the rest is in creation.

Deuteronomy 5 :11 15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day

He uses his rest to draw them out of bondage lighting their wilderness path toward the promised land.

I would think the word “rest” would be a better representative than word “sabbath”. The sabbat is not a work we work to receive it is a rest .

Remember Satan turns thing upside down earthly inspired after the things seen He is the god of this world in that way. Lust eye. . . lust flesh. . . false pride of life. If we think we can work to enter that rest it would seem to be to the father of lies dark approval .

My paraphrase of Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had did the sabbath work (rather than rested) from all his work which God created and made. . . . . . . .He rested the rest by finishing it.

Can you clarify this point please?

If a group of people were to create lists on which of God's laws they through were part of the ceremonial law, then there would be a wide variety of lists and none of those people should interpret the authors of the Bible as referring to a list that they just created. If by "the ceremonial law" someone has in mind a set of laws that is not identical to the list of laws that the authors of the Bible had in mind, then they misunderstanding them by interpreted them as referring to the ceremonial law, however, there is no way to establish that the authors of the Bible even considered to be the ceremonial law because the Bible never even refers to that as being a category of law

Thanks I can try.

Two kinds of laws the law of our Faithfull Creator “let there be” and it witnesses. . . God's unseen glory and goodness.

With that law he set up moral laws that need no reasoning explanation and in the same ten commandments which simply represents all the commandments. Ones given with reasons to be used as a parable again between the unseen things of God, His faith, his understanding. No mixing as in Hebrew 4 no gospel understanding..

Ceremonial laws are designed to teach comfort those who display them but are not a sign unto their own self’s (self-edifying) They are designed for a sign to the unbelieving world . Using signs to draw men to the light of His living word

Believer have prophecy sealed with 7 seals till the end of time .

Aaron two sons were put to death because they mocked God ceremony to the world .. . offering strange fire, foolish self-pride adding to the word of God, they received the sign of false prophets death .

All of the ceremonies began with the promise in Genesis 3:15 the coming of the suffering savior, The theme of the ceremonies “The suffering of the savor beforehand” It gave the believer a living hope as well as a sign to the whole dark world to search the scriptures

Receiving the end from the beginning by the powerful Spirit of a suffering savor they looked ahead to the falling of the shadows . . by the same spirit of faith yoked with Christ we look back to that glories demonstration of the father and the Son the shadow fell the time of reformation came.

Faith Christ labor of love . . . not of our own selves

1 Peter 1: 5-11 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Again we look back they look ahead by the same living word

 

[Arial]

The principle of the fourth commandment to keep the Sabbath holy is the same as the principle of the ninth commandment against bearing false witness, whereas the principle of the fifth commandment to honor our parents is the same as the principle of the tenth Commandment against coveting in our hearts, but the principle of the commandment to honor our parents is not the same as the principle of the commandment against bearing false witness, so the structure of how you have ordered the commandments is incorrect.

Interesting fact.

If we keep the first two commandments perfectly, we will automatically keep the rest. Of course the Israelites had to have them given to them from God through Moses, and fleshed out in the Law with Law. We have the record of it for our good. As to Sabbath keeping , and as it was laid out in the Law; it is God's rest as we see in Gen. For the Jew it was a memorial of His bringing them out of Egypt and giving them the land where they rested from bondage, and being their God. It is in effect, a symbol of being subjected to Him in obedience. God as the Creator (the Gen Sabbath) and they as the creature.

But there was still another rest to come. Heb 4.

5 And again in this passage he said,

“They shall not enter my rest.”
6 Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, 7 again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted,

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God[b] would not have spoken of another day later on. 9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10 for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.

4 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. 2 For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.[a] 3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said,

“As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not enter my rest,’”

Being in Christ through faith is the believer's Sabbath rest. We rest from all our work, we have been made whole by the righteousness of Christ. by His person and work. He rests from His work of purchasing a people for God.

 

[Soyeong]

Interesting fact.

If we the first two commandments, we will automatically keep the rest. Of course the Israelites had to have them given to them from God through Moses, and fleshed out in the Law with Law. We have the record of it for our good. As to Sabbath keeping , and as it was laid out in the Law; it is God's rest as we see in Gen. For the Jew it was a memorial of His bringing them out of Egypt and giving them the land where they rested from bondage, and being their God. It is in effect, a symbol of being subjected to Him in obedience. God as the Creator (the Gen Sabbath) and they as the creature.

But there was still another rest to come. Heb 4.

5 And again in this passage he said,

“They shall not enter my rest.”
6 Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, 7 again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted,

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God[b] would not have spoken of another day later on. 9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10 for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.

4 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. 2 For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.[a] 3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said,

“As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not enter my rest,’”

If God had given us a list of 100 examples of how to testify about His righteousness in various situations, then we could extrapolate a spiritual principle of righteousness that leads us to do what is righteous in accordance with those examples even in situations that are not one of the ones that God listed. Correctly understanding this spiritual principle will never lead us away from doing the things that God listed as examples of it.

Likewise, there is a spiritual principle of rest that is behind God's commands and correctly understanding this principle leads us to take actions that are examples of it in accordance with what God has commanded, but will never lead us away from taking those examples. In Hebrews 3:18-19, they did not enter into God's rest because of their disobedience/unbelief, and in Ezekiel 20:13, it specifically mentions that hey greatly profaned God's Sabbaths, so we should not think that it will be different for us where we can enter God's rest while profaning His Sabbaths. In Hebrews 4:11, it says that we should strive to enter into that rest so that no one may fall away by the same sort of disobedience, so entering into God's rest should not be used to justify the same sort of disobedience. In Jeremiah 6:16-19, God's law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls.

Keeping the 7th day holy bears witness that there is a Creator who created the world in six days, who rested on the seventh, who is holy, who sanctifies us, and who leads us out of bondage, so the way to believe in the truth of these things is by keeping the 7th day holy while the way to bear false witness against the truth of those things is by not keeping the 7th day holy. So the fourth commandment is connected with the ninth commandment against bearing false witness and is to our relationship with God what the ninth commandment is to our relationship with our neighbor.

Being in Christ through faith is the believer's Sabbath rest. We rest from all our work, we have been made whole by the righteousness of Christ. by His person and work. He rests from His work of purchasing a people for God.

Christ walked in obedience to God's law, including keeping the 7th day holy, and in 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, so we should testify about the rest that we have in Christ by keeping the 7th day holy rather than bearing false witness against the rest that we have in Christ.

 

[Mr GLee]

If we the first two commandments, we will automatically keep the rest. Of course the Israelites had to have them given to them from God through Moses, and fleshed out in the Law with Law. We have the record of it for our good. As to Sabbath keeping , and as it was laid out in the Law; it is God's rest as we see in Gen. For the Jew it was a memorial of His bringing them out of Egypt and giving them the land where they rested from bondage, and being their God. It is in effect, a symbol of being subjected to Him in obedience. God as the Creator (the Gen Sabbath) and they as the creature.

Two seems to be the number God has set aside to represent his law of faith. . . . . a labor of His love . (#1) the loving law "let there be" and (#2) and it was good .God using form to show his eternal power in pursuit of a bride .

The dynamic dual, the Father and the Son the promise of Genesis 3:15 the father and the son working as one. He made mankind one as if two two by two he sends out .two by two he called two by two into the ark . The law and the prophets or Moses and Elias to represent the law of the gospel (sola scriptura)

Seven represent complete perfect we rest in his perfectly complete love we do not work to gain it, it strengthens us .It opposes false prophets, false apostles that seek after a legion of disembodied gods with a familiar spirits. that some call patron saints .

Isaiah 8:19-20 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law and to the testimony:(the dynamic dual) if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

[Soyeong]

Thanks, again the word rest is not a time sensitive word. Our source of rest is completed 7th day. Today if we mix faith with what we do then, any time we hear his voice and do not harden our heart but do what it says we have entered that eternal rest .No mixing of faith . . No rest it becomes a labor of one self-trying to enter rest or it would seem to.

The issue of faith is whether we trust God with all of our heart to guide us in how to correctly live through obeying what He has instructed, which is why Hebrews 3:18-19 connects their unbelief with their disobedience. In Matthew 11:28-30 and Jeremiah 6:16-19, God's law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls. This rest for our souls comes from having faith in God to correctly guide us, not from the result of our self-effort.

Hebrews 4;1-2 King James Version Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and God's law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message, which was the Gospel that was preached to us as well as to them, but they did not repent by faith, so they did not enter God's rest.

Reasons are needed to be used as parables. . both examples same conclusion “rest”. . . . . not working to acquire rest. Work out, not work for. . For it is God who works in us empowering us who are powerless.

Obedience to God's law has nothing to do with working to acquire rest. To use an analogy, we are not required to have exercised a certain amount first in order to become stronger as the result as if it were earned as a wage, but rather exercising is intrinsically the way to become stronger.

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Exodus the rest is in creation.

Deuteronomy 5 :11 15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day

He uses his rest to draw them out of bondage lighting their wilderness path toward the promised land.

I would think the word “rest” would be a better representative than word “sabbath”. The sabbat is not a work we work to receive it is a rest .

The Sabbath is the way to experience rest, not the way to earn it. Keeping the Sabbath holy testifies that there is a Creator who created the world in six days, who rested on the seventh, who is holy, who sanctifies us, and who saves us out of bondage, so if we believe in the truth of these things, then we will keep the Sabbath holy.

Remember Satan turns thing upside down earthly inspired after the things seen He is the god of this world in that way. Lust eye. . . lust flesh. . . false pride of life. If we think we can work to enter that rest it would seem to be to the father of lies dark approval .

My paraphrase of Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had did the sabbath work (rather than rested) from all his work which God created and made. . . . . . . .He rested the rest by finishing it.

Satan does not have the role of leading us to obey what God has commanded. The word use refers to ceasing from creative activity.

Thanks I can try.

Two kinds of laws the law of our Faithfull Creator “let there be” and it witnesses. . . God's unseen glory and goodness.

With that law he set up moral laws that need no reasoning explanation and in the same ten commandments which simply represents all the commandments. Ones given with reasons to be used as a parable again between the unseen things of God, His faith, his understanding. No mixing as in Hebrew 4 no gospel understanding..

Ceremonial laws are designed to teach comfort those who display them but are not a sign unto their own self’s (self-edifying) They are designed for a sign to the unbelieving world . Using signs to draw men to the light of His living word

Believer have prophecy sealed with 7 seals till the end of time .

Aaron two sons were put to death because they mocked God ceremony to the world .. . offering strange fire, foolish self-pride adding to the word of God, they received the sign of false prophets death .

All of the ceremonies began with the promise in Genesis 3:15 the coming of the suffering savior, The theme of the ceremonies “The suffering of the savor beforehand” It gave the believer a living hope as well as a sign to the whole dark world to search the scriptures

Receiving the end from the beginning by the powerful Spirit of a suffering savor they looked ahead to the falling of the shadows . . by the same spirit of faith yoked with Christ we look back to that glories demonstration of the father and the Son the shadow fell the time of reformation came.

Faith Christ labor of love . . . not of our own selves

1 Peter 1: 5-11 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Again we look back they look ahead by the same living word

There is still the major problem that the Bible never refers to the categories of ceremonial or moral law and never lists which laws fit into which of those categories and the major problem of considering disobedience to any of God's commands to be moral. I could categorize God's laws based upon which part of the body is most commonly used to obey/disobey them, such as with the law against theft being a hand law, but the fact that I can do that does not establish that any of the authors of the Bible categorized God's laws in the same manner. So if I were to interpret the authors of the Bible as referring to the categories that I had created and were to create my own doctrine out of them, such as saying that hand laws were designed to comfort those who display them, then I would still be making far less of an error than you are because I would not be suggesting that it can be moral to disobey God.

 

[Red Baker]

So you keep all the Law with it's animal sacrifices? Or do you just pick and chose what parts of the Law to obey?

Sawdust, you got your answer! He picks and chooses. I have read most of these posts and will have some things to say tomorrow.

 

[Soyeong]

Sawdust, you got your answer! He picks and chooses. I have read most of these posts and will have some things to say tomorrow.

Can you not recognize the difference between someone not following laws in regard to having period or giving birth because they are a man or someone picking and choosing not to follow a law because they don't want to follow it?