Does Colossians 2:16 abolish the Fourth Commandment?

[Hobie]

Many people claim that the verse Colossians 2:16 abolishes the Fourth Commandment of Gods eternal Ten Commandments which deals with the keeping of Gods seventh day Sabbath, but something that most Christians are also NOT taught is that there are two distinctly separate sets of laws in the Holy Bible. Those laws were the Ten Commandments of God himself, and the Law of Moses, also known as the 'ceremonial law'.

We will first look at the verse itself, then study the bible to see which law the author of the verse is referring too.

Colossians 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

We notice that this verse along with mentioning the 'sabbath days' also mentions 'meat', 'drink', 'a holy day' and 'the new moon'. If we study Gods Ten Commandments we will notice that none of the commandments have anything to do with meat, drink, a holy day or the new moon. These things all had to do with the festival days kept in the Ceremonial Law of Moses. The Ceremonial Law of Moses had 7 Festival Days that were also known as 'Sabbaths'. So this becomes a definite clue as to which law this particular verse belongs too.

Another clue as to which law this verse is referring to can be found just two verses earlier in Colossians 2:14 which reads:

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Notice in this verse it specifically states that it was the 'handwriting of ordinances that was against us' that was nailed to the cross.

To better understand what the 'handwriting of ordinances against us' is lets study how each law came into being. First we will look at the Ten Commandments of God. The bible tells us that:
Exodus 31:18
And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

In this verse we specifically see that the Ten Commandments were written by God himself. God had engraved the commandments in stone with His own finger, they were not 'handwritten' by men. It should also be pointed out here that the Ten Commandments are the only part of the bible that God took the time to write Himself. These alone were written upon the tables, so this should be an indication of their importance to Him.

Next lets look at how the Ceremonial Law of Moses came into existence. In Deuteronomy 31:24-26 we read:

Deuteronomy 31:24-26
24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying,
26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

Notice that it was the ceremonial law that was dictated to and handwritten by Moses that was placed beside the Ark of the Covenant as a witness 'against us', not the Ten Commandments of God. Gods Ten Commandments have never been 'against us'. If we believe that Colossians 2:14 above is actually a depiction of the Ten Commandments being nailed to the cross we have to ask ourselves why would God nail a law to the cross and 'take it out of the way' if that law stated that He was the only God? Also, if we believe that it was the Ten Commandments that were nailed to the cross we also must believe that the commandments concerning murder, theft, adultery, idol worship and others have also been removed, which simply would not make any sense.

Therefore it becomes easy to see with honest and accurate bible study that the law that was nailed to the cross and taken out of our way was the Ceremonial Law of Moses, NOT the Ten Commandments of God or any part of the Ten Commandments, because it was the Ceremonial Law of Moses that was the handwritten witness against us, which Colossians 2:14 shows as being nailed to the cross.

Applying any part of Colossians 2:14 or 2:16 to the Ten Commandments uses both verses completely out of context because the law that is a witness 'against us' is easily defined in the bible as the Ceremonial Law of Moses and also the 'Sabbath days' mentioned in Colossians 2:16 could only refer to the Festival Days of the Ceremonial law and still be used in context with the rest of that verse also.

It is also important to mention that the phrase 'Sabbath days' is used in its plural form to show a multiple set of days as you only find in the Ceremonial Law, whereas in the Ten Commandments there is only one singular Sabbath day.

It makes perfect sense that the Ceremonial Law would be nailed to the cross as it mainly pointed forward to the coming and sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross, and also the Ceremonial Law dealt with sacrifices and other rituals of atonement that Israel had to carry out until the crucifixion. But once Jesus died on the cross sacrifices were no longer necessary and the Ceremonial Law was done away with forever and 'nailed to the cross'.

About His Ten Commandment God explicitly states:

Deuteronomy 5:29
O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

He states His commandments are to last forever. And when He was on earth, Jesus also confirms for us:

Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Have Heaven and Earth 'passed away'? Obviously not, so how can any of the Law of God, His Ten Commandments have changed? Unless we wish to believe Jesus lied or was mistaken we can only accept that Gods Law has never changed. Jesus said none of the Law of God would change. Actually Heaven and Earth are just going to be recreated, they will never actually and cease to exist. What Jesus is saying is just another way to drive the point home that Gods law will last forever since Heaven and Earth will never truly cease to exist. As we can confirm in this next verse:

Isaiah 66:22-23
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

Notice that this verse takes place in the future, after judgment day, when Heaven and Earth have been recreated. They have not ceased to exist but will continue on for eternity. Also notice the verse boldly states that 'all flesh', not just Jews, will be expected to 'come to worship' before God from one Sabbath to another.

If Colossians 2:16 nailed the Ten Commandments and more precisely the Fourth Commandment Sabbath day to the cross, why is God telling us here that we are expected to keep it forever?

Remember the bible tells us in the New Testament book of Revelation that:

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[prism]

The Sabbath rest commands were to typify our rest in Christ's Work and cease from our own. (see Heb chaps 3&4)

 

[sawdust]

Many people claim that the verse Colossians 2:16 abolishes the Fourth Commandment of Gods eternal Ten Commandments which deals with the keeping of Gods seventh day Sabbath, but something that most Christians are also NOT taught is that there are two distinctly separate sets of laws in the Holy Bible. Those laws were the Ten Commandments of God himself, and the Law of Moses, also known as the 'ceremonial law'.

We will first look at the verse itself, then study the bible to see which law the author of the verse is referring too.

Colossians 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

We notice that this verse along with mentioning the 'sabbath days' also mentions 'meat', 'drink', 'a holy day' and 'the new moon'. If we study Gods Ten Commandments we will notice that none of the commandments have anything to do with meat, drink, a holy day or the new moon. These things all had to do with the festival days kept in the Ceremonial Law of Moses. The Ceremonial Law of Moses had 7 Festival Days that were also known as 'Sabbaths'. So this becomes a definite clue as to which law this particular verse belongs too.

Another clue as to which law this verse is referring to can be found just two verses earlier in Colossians 2:14 which reads:

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Notice in this verse it specifically states that it was the 'handwriting of ordinances that was against us' that was nailed to the cross.

To better understand what the 'handwriting of ordinances against us' is lets study how each law came into being. First we will look at the Ten Commandments of God. The bible tells us that:
Exodus 31:18
And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

In this verse we specifically see that the Ten Commandments were written by God himself. God had engraved the commandments in stone with His own finger, they were not 'handwritten' by men. It should also be pointed out here that the Ten Commandments are the only part of the bible that God took the time to write Himself. These alone were written upon the tables, so this should be an indication of their importance to Him.

Next lets look at how the Ceremonial Law of Moses came into existence. In Deuteronomy 31:24-26 we read:

Deuteronomy 31:24-26
24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying,
26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

Notice that it was the ceremonial law that was dictated to and handwritten by Moses that was placed beside the Ark of the Covenant as a witness 'against us', not the Ten Commandments of God. Gods Ten Commandments have never been 'against us'. If we believe that Colossians 2:14 above is actually a depiction of the Ten Commandments being nailed to the cross we have to ask ourselves why would God nail a law to the cross and 'take it out of the way' if that law stated that He was the only God? Also, if we believe that it was the Ten Commandments that were nailed to the cross we also must believe that the commandments concerning murder, theft, adultery, idol worship and others have also been removed, which simply would not make any sense.

Therefore it becomes easy to see with honest and accurate bible study that the law that was nailed to the cross and taken out of our way was the Ceremonial Law of Moses, NOT the Ten Commandments of God or any part of the Ten Commandments, because it was the Ceremonial Law of Moses that was the handwritten witness against us, which Colossians 2:14 shows as being nailed to the cross.

Applying any part of Colossians 2:14 or 2:16 to the Ten Commandments uses both verses completely out of context because the law that is a witness 'against us' is easily defined in the bible as the Ceremonial Law of Moses and also the 'Sabbath days' mentioned in Colossians 2:16 could only refer to the Festival Days of the Ceremonial law and still be used in context with the rest of that verse also.

It is also important to mention that the phrase 'Sabbath days' is used in its plural form to show a multiple set of days as you only find in the Ceremonial Law, whereas in the Ten Commandments there is only one singular Sabbath day.

It makes perfect sense that the Ceremonial Law would be nailed to the cross as it mainly pointed forward to the coming and sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross, and also the Ceremonial Law dealt with sacrifices and other rituals of atonement that Israel had to carry out until the crucifixion. But once Jesus died on the cross sacrifices were no longer necessary and the Ceremonial Law was done away with forever and 'nailed to the cross'.

About His Ten Commandment God explicitly states:

Deuteronomy 5:29
O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

He states His commandments are to last forever. And when He was on earth, Jesus also confirms for us:

Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Have Heaven and Earth 'passed away'? Obviously not, so how can any of the Law of God, His Ten Commandments have changed? Unless we wish to believe Jesus lied or was mistaken we can only accept that Gods Law has never changed. Jesus said none of the Law of God would change. Actually Heaven and Earth are just going to be recreated, they will never actually and cease to exist. What Jesus is saying is just another way to drive the point home that Gods law will last forever since Heaven and Earth will never truly cease to exist. As we can confirm in this next verse:

Isaiah 66:22-23
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

Notice that this verse takes place in the future, after judgment day, when Heaven and Earth have been recreated. They have not ceased to exist but will continue on for eternity. Also notice the verse boldly states that 'all flesh', not just Jews, will be expected to 'come to worship' before God from one Sabbath to another.

If Colossians 2:16 nailed the Ten Commandments and more precisely the Fourth Commandment Sabbath day to the cross, why is God telling us here that we are expected to keep it forever?

Remember the bible tells us in the New Testament book of Revelation that:

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

The Law was never done away with, it was fulfilled in Christ. We who are in Christ fulfill the Law when we walk according to the Spirit for it is Christ who lives in us.

 

[Hobie]

The Law was never done away with, it was fulfilled in Christ. We who are in Christ fulfill the Law when we walk according to the Spirit for it is Christ who lives in us.

So do you 'walk according to the Spirit' when you break Gods Ten Commandments, got to think that one over..

 

[sawdust]

So do you 'walk according to the Spirit' when you break Gods Ten Commandments, got to think that one over..

No. Those who live to obey the Law have gone astray. I live by grace. What do you live by? (rhetorical question)

Galatians 5:4
Some of you are trying to be made right with God by obeying the law. You have been separated from Christ. You have fallen away from God’s grace.

 

[sawdust]

So do you 'walk according to the Spirit' when you break Gods Ten Commandments, got to think that one over..

And as I said, Christ fulfilled the Law and we fulfill the law when we walk according to the Spirit for it is His life in us that is being expressed.

Romans 10:4
Christ has fulfilled everything the law was meant to do. So now everyone who believes can be right with God.

 

[Soyeong]

The Law was never done away with, it was fulfilled in Christ. We who are in Christ fulfill the Law when we walk according to the Spirit for it is Christ who lives in us.

"To fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will (as made known through His law) to be obeyed as to be obeyed as it should be. After Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law, proceeded to fulfill it six times throughout the rest of the chapter by teaching how to correctly obey it as it should be. In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, so those who are in Christ fulfill the law by correctly following his example of how to walk in obedience to it. Likewise, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, and in Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to His law. Christ lived in obedience to God's law, so that is also the way that we live when he is living in us.

No. Those who live to obey the Law have gone astray. I live by grace. What do you live by? (rhetorical question)

Galatians 5:4
Some of you are trying to be made right with God by obeying the law. You have been separated from Christ. You have fallen away from God’s grace.

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he might know Him and Israel too, in 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught how to walk in His way through his law, and in John 17:3, eternal life is knowing God and Jesus, which again is salvation by grace through faith. In Genesis 6:8-9, Noah found grace in the eyes of God, he was a righteous man, and he walked with God, so God was gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way in obedience to His law and he was righteous because he obeyed through faith. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so God graciously teaching us to obey His law is part of the content of His gift of salvation and this is what it means to be by grace, not the way to fall from it.

All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law and even Christ began his ministry with that message, so it would be absurd to interpret Galatians 5:4 as Paul warning us against doing that and warning us that we will be cut off from Christ if we follow Christ. Paul's problem in Galatians was not with those who were teaching Gentiles how to follow Christ, but with those who were wanting to require Gentiles to obey works of the law in order to become justified. To claim that those to live to obey God's law have gone astray is to claim that God has led us astray by commanding His law.

And as I said, Christ fulfilled the Law and we fulfill the law when we walk according to the Spirit for it is His life in us that is being expressed.

Romans 10:4
Christ has fulfilled everything the law was meant to do. So now everyone who believes can be right with God.

In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the law, which again is eternal life.

In Romans 9:30-10:4, they had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowing him, so they failed to attain righteousness because they misunderstood the goal of the law by pursuing it as through righteousness were earned as the result of their works in order to establish their own instead of pursing the law as through righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 3:21-22, the only way to become righteous that is testified about by the Law and the Prophets is through faith in Christ, so having faith in God by obeying His law has always been the way to be right with God.

 

[sawdust]

"To fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will (as made known through His law) to be obeyed as to be obeyed as it should be. After Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law, proceeded to fulfill it six times throughout the rest of the chapter by teaching how to correctly obey it as it should be. In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, so those who are in Christ fulfill the law by correctly following his example of how to walk in obedience to it. Likewise, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, and in Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to His law. Christ lived in obedience to God's law, so that is also the way that we live when he is living in us.


In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he might know Him and Israel too, in 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught how to walk in His way through his law, and in John 17:3, eternal life is knowing God and Jesus, which again is salvation by grace through faith. In Genesis 6:8-9, Noah found grace in the eyes of God, he was a righteous man, and he walked with God, so God was gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way in obedience to His law and he was righteous because he obeyed through faith. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so God graciously teaching us to obey His law is part of the content of His gift of salvation and this is what it means to be by grace, not the way to fall from it.

All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law and even Christ began his ministry with that message, so it would be absurd to interpret Galatians 5:4 as Paul warning us against doing that and warning us that we will be cut off from Christ if we follow Christ. Paul's problem in Galatians was not with those who were teaching Gentiles how to follow Christ, but with those who were wanting to require Gentiles to obey works of the law in order to become justified. To claim that those to live to obey God's law have gone astray is to claim that God has led us astray by commanding His law.


In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the law, which again is eternal life.

In Romans 9:30-10:4, they had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowing him, so they failed to attain righteousness because they misunderstood the goal of the law by pursuing it as through righteousness were earned as the result of their works in order to establish their own instead of pursing the law as through righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 3:21-22, the only way to become righteous that is testified about by the Law and the Prophets is through faith in Christ, so having faith in God by obeying His law has always been the way to be right with God.

And your point is .... ???

You keep the Sabbath? You keep the festivals and sacrifices too? To break one part of the law is to break it all.

James 2:10
Suppose you keep the whole law but trip over just one part of it. Then you are guilty of breaking all of it.

You can't just pick and choose what parts of the Law you want to keep and throw the rest away. Keep it all or walk in the Spirit by grace.

John 4:23
But a new time is coming. In fact, it is already here. True worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth. They are the kind of worshipers the Father is looking for.

 

[Soyeong]

And your point is .... ???

To explain why I disagree with what you've said.

You keep the Sabbath? You keep the festivals and sacrifices too? To break one part of the law is to break it all.

James 2:10
Suppose you keep the whole law but trip over just one part of it. Then you are guilty of breaking all of it.

You can't just pick and choose what parts of the Law you want to keep and throw the rest away. Keep it all or walk in the Spirit by grace.

John 4:23
But a new time is coming. In fact, it is already here. True worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth. They are the kind of worshipers the Father is looking for.

In James 2:1-11, he was speaking to people who already sinned by showing favoritism, so he was not telling them that they needed to have perfect obedience because that would have already been too late and he was not trying to warn them away from choosing to obey God's law, but rather he was encouraging them to repent and to obey God's law more consistently. Walking in the Spirit by grace is never treated as an alternative to keeping God's law, but rather it is in accordance with keeping it, as I've shown with the verses that I've quoted where God is gracious to us by teaching us to obey it.

Likewise, in Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God. In John 16:!3, the Spirt has the role of leading us in truth, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, and in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of convicting us of sin, and in 1 John 3:4, sin is the transgression of God's law. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to God's law. In Galatians 5:19-23, every listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's law, while the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it. In Romans 2:25-29, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to God's law and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrasted with Acts 7:51-53, those who have uncircumcised hearts resit the Spirit and do not obey God's law.

So obedience to God's law is the way to worship Him in spirit and in truth and it is absurd to think that the kind of worshipers that the Father is looking for are those who refuse to follow His instructions for how to worship Him. It should not make sense to you to interpret the Bible as speaking against obeying what God has commanded or to think that God's commands lead us astray.

 

[sawdust]

To explain why I disagree with what you've said.


In James 2:1-11, he was speaking to people who already sinned by showing favoritism, so he was not telling them that they needed to have perfect obedience because that would have already been too late and he was not trying to warn them away from choosing to obey God's law, but rather he was encouraging them to repent and to obey God's law more consistently. Walking in the Spirit by grace is never treated as an alternative to keeping God's law, but rather it is in accordance with keeping it, as I've shown with the verses that I've quoted where God is gracious to us by teaching us to obey it.

Likewise, in Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God. In John 16:!3, the Spirt has the role of leading us in truth, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, and in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of convicting us of sin, and in 1 John 3:4, sin is the transgression of God's law. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to God's law. In Galatians 5:19-23, every listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's law, while the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it. In Romans 2:25-29, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to God's law and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrasted with Acts 7:51-53, those who have uncircumcised hearts resit the Spirit and do not obey God's law.

So obedience to God's law is the way to worship Him in spirit and in truth and it is absurd to think that the kind of worshipers that the Father is looking for are those who refuse to follow His instructions for how to worship Him. It should not make sense to you to interpret the Bible as speaking against obeying what God has commanded or to think that God's commands lead us astray.

So you keep all the Law with it's animal sacrifices? Or do you just pick and chose what parts of the Law to obey?

 

[Soyeong]

So you keep all the Law with it's animal sacrifices? Or do you just pick and chose what parts of the Law to obey?

Whether I happen to be keeping God's law correctly is independent of the issue of whether followers of God should follow what God has commanded in accordance with the example that we should follow. Even if I were the world's greatest hypocrite, then that would just mean that I would need to repent, not that I was wrong about whether we should obey what God has commanded.

There can be legitimate reasons for not following a particular law and James 2:10 is only speaking in regard to illegitimate reasons. For example, the Israelites were given a number of laws that had the condition "when you enter the land..." while they were still wandering the wilderness for 40 years, so if a law can't be followed under the current conditions, then that is a legitimate reason for not following it. Likewise, laws in regard to temple practice should only be followed when there is a temple in which to practice them. The condition for the Israelites to return to the land was to first return to obedience to God's law, which includes laws that required them to have access to the temple in order to obey, which they did not have access to while they were in exile, so they were not required to obey those laws in order to return to the land.

Even when the law was first given to Israel, there was not a single person who was required to obey every single law and not even Jesus was required to obey the laws in regard to having a period or to giving birth. Some laws were only for the King, the High Priest, priests, judges, men, women, children, those who are married, who are widows, those who have servants, those who have animals, those who have crops, those who have tzaraat, those who are living in the land, and those who are strangers living among them while others were given to everyone. So there are legitimate reasons for not following a particular law, which is not picking or choosing based upon whether or not we want to follow it.

 

[sawdust]

Whether I happen to be keeping God's law correctly

The only way to keep God's law correctly is by grace through faith. The law was given to point to Christ and our need for Him. He fulfilled the law. We abide by the law of the Spirit (also known as the law of Christ) now which is to love others.

Galatians 5:14
The whole law is fulfilled by obeying this one command. “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.”

If you think obedience to rules and regulations is the Way then you have missed the point of the Law.

If you want to keep Saturday as a day of no work? Go right ahead, millions of Jews do it every week to absolutely no avail.

If you want to do the work of God? Then you will need to believe in the One that was sent.

John 6:29
Jesus answered, “God’s work is to believe in the one he has sent.”

Choice is yours. Rest one day a week or rest 24/7 in the One who is our Sabbath.

 

[Mr GLee]

It is also important to mention that the phrase 'Sabbath days' is used in its plural form to show a multiple set of days as you only find in the Ceremonial Law, whereas in the Ten Commandments there is only one singular Sabbath day.

It makes perfect sense that the Ceremonial Law would be nailed to the cross as it mainly pointed forward to the coming and sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross, and also the Ceremonial Law dealt with sacrifices and other rituals of atonement that Israel had to carry out until the crucifixion. But once Jesus died on the cross sacrifices were no longer necessary and the Ceremonial Law was done away with forever and 'nailed to the cross'.

About His Ten Commandment God explicitly states:

From my experiences many miss the law. The word rest sabbath. It is not a time sensitive word.

It would be like a couple word that remain in their original they can cause confusion. like Angel . . or Apostle.

Satan has his hand in it.. Change the meaning of one word change the authorship therefore. . . violating the warning in respect to a word (single) Deuteronomy 4:2



According to Hebrew 4 our rest (sabbath) it last as long as we do not harden our hearts.

Making the ceremonial law (shadow of the perfect to come) the object like the ceremonial baptism or any kind of supposed sign gift (I did it. it proved it must make the word rest (sabbath) time sensitive to fulfil the empty boast .

 

[Soyeong]

The only way to keep God's law correctly is by grace through faith. The law was given to point to Christ and our need for Him.

He fulfilled the law. We abide by the law of the Spirit (also known as the law of Christ) now which is to love others.

Galatians 5:14
The whole law is fulfilled by obeying this one command. “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.”

If you think obedience to rules and regulations is the Way then you have missed the point of the Law.

Agreed. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he might know Him and Israel too, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the point of the law is to teach us how to know God and Jesus, which is eternal life (John 17:3), which is also why Jesus said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments (Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:25-28)

"To fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will (as made know through His law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo). After Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in Matthew 5:17-20, he then proceeded to fulfill it six times throughout the rest of the chapter by teaching how to correctly obey it. In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus summarizes the law as being about how to love God and our neighbors, so love fulfills the law because it shows a correct understanding of what it is about how to do. Moreover, the fact that anyone can fulfill the entire law by loving their neighbor means that countless people have fulfilled the law. God is not in disagreement with Himself about which laws we should follow, so the Law of Christ is the same as the Law of the Spirit and the Law of the Father, which was given to Moses, which is not different than loving others.

If you want to keep Saturday as a day of no work? Go right ahead, millions of Jews do it every week to absolutely no avail.

God's word does not return void.

If you want to do the work of God? Then you will need to believe in the One that was sent.

John 6:29
Jesus answered, “God’s work is to believe in the one he has sent.”

Choice is yours. Rest one day a week or rest 24/7 in the One who is our Sabbath.

The work is of God is straightforwardly to do the works that God has commanded in His word, especially because God's word is instructions for how to believe in God's word made flesh. We can't believe in God's word made flesh by refusing to obey God's word. In Hebrews 4:11, it says to strive to enter into God's rest so that no one may fall away by the same sort of disobedience, so using entering into God's rest to justify the same sort of disobedience is exactly the opposite of what was being said.

 

[Soyeong]

From my experiences many miss the law. The word rest sabbath. It is not a time sensitive word.

It would be like a couple word that remain in their original they can cause confusion. like Angel . . or Apostle.

Satan has his hand in it.. Change the meaning of one word change the authorship therefore. . . violating the warning in respect to a word (single) Deuteronomy 4:2



According to Hebrew 4 our rest (sabbath) it last as long as we do not harden our hearts.

In Hebrews 3:18-19, they did not enter into God's rest because of their unbelief/disobedience, and in Ezekiel 20:13, it specifically mentions that they greatly profaned God's Sabbaths, so someone refusing to keep the 7th day holy is hardening their heart.

Making the ceremonial law (shadow of the perfect to come) the object like the ceremonial baptism or any kind of supposed sign gift (I did it. it proved it must make the word rest (sabbath) time sensitive to fulfil the empty boast .

Can you clarify this point please?

If a group of people were to create lists on which of God's laws they through were part of the ceremonial law, then there would be a wide variety of lists and none of those people should interpret the authors of the Bible as referring to a list that they just created. If by "the ceremonial law" someone has in mind a set of laws that is not identical to the list of laws that the authors of the Bible had in mind, then they misunderstanding them by interpreted them as referring to the ceremonial law, however, there is no way to establish that the authors of the Bible even considered to be the ceremonial law because the Bible never even refers to that as being a category of law.

 

[Soyeong]

Many people claim that the verse Colossians 2:16 abolishes the Fourth Commandment of Gods eternal Ten Commandments which deals with the keeping of Gods seventh day Sabbath, but something that most Christians are also NOT taught is that there are two distinctly separate sets of laws in the Holy Bible. Those laws were the Ten Commandments of God himself, and the Law of Moses, also known as the 'ceremonial law'.

In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, Moses wrote down everything that God commanded without departing from it, so all of the Law of Moses was commanded by God Himself, which is why the Law of Moses is referred to as the Law of God in verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:22-23. So the Law of Moses refers to all of the laws that God gave to Israel through Moses as a mediator, which is commonly counted as 613 laws, which includes the Ten Commandments. Moreover, the Bible never refers to the other 603 laws as being the ceremonial law and many of them have nothing in particular to do with ceremony, such as with the laws against, rape, kidnapping, favoritism, and the greatest two commandments.

We will first look at the verse itself, then study the bible to see which law the author of the verse is referring too.

Colossians 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

We notice that this verse along with mentioning the 'sabbath days' also mentions 'meat', 'drink', 'a holy day' and 'the new moon'. If we study Gods Ten Commandments we will notice that none of the commandments have anything to do with meat, drink, a holy day or the new moon. These things all had to do with the festival days kept in the Ceremonial Law of Moses. The Ceremonial Law of Moses had 7 Festival Days that were also known as 'Sabbaths'. So this becomes a definite clue as to which law this particular verse belongs too.

The command to keep the Sabbath holy is part of the laws in regard to God's holy days that are listed in Leviticus 23. The Colossians were keeping God's holy days in obedience to God's commands in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow and Paul was encouraging them not to let any man judge them and keep them from obeying God.

Another clue as to which law this verse is referring to can be found just two verses earlier in Colossians 2:14 which reads:

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Notice in this verse it specifically states that it was the 'handwriting of ordinances that was against us' that was nailed to the cross.

To better understand what the 'handwriting of ordinances against us' is lets study how each law came into being. First we will look at the Ten Commandments of God. The bible tells us that:
Exodus 31:18
And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

In this verse we specifically see that the Ten Commandments were written by God himself. God had engraved the commandments in stone with His own finger, they were not 'handwritten' by men. It should also be pointed out here that the Ten Commandments are the only part of the bible that God took the time to write Himself. These alone were written upon the tables, so this should be an indication of their importance to Him.

The Mosaic Law is not against us, but rather it was given as a gift for our own good in order to teach us how to be blessed (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13). For example, the command against committing murder is a law that is for our own good while an example of a handwritten ordinance that was against someone would be a sign that was nailed to their cross that announced that they they were being crucified that charged them of having committed murder, such as with the sign that was nailed to Christ's cross that charged him of being the King of the Jews (Matthew 27:37). This fits perfectly with the concept of the list of the sins that we have committed being nailed to Christ's cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins.

All of God's commands have the same eternal and moral authority regardless of whether God wrote them or spoke them to Moses to write down.

Next lets look at how the Ceremonial Law of Moses came into existence. In Deuteronomy 31:24-26 we read:

Deuteronomy 31:24-26
24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying,
26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

Notice that it was the ceremonial law that was dictated to and handwritten by Moses that was placed beside the Ark of the Covenant as a witness 'against us', not the Ten Commandments of God. Gods Ten Commandments have never been 'against us'. If we believe that Colossians 2:14 above is actually a depiction of the Ten Commandments being nailed to the cross we have to ask ourselves why would God nail a law to the cross and 'take it out of the way' if that law stated that He was the only God? Also, if we believe that it was the Ten Commandments that were nailed to the cross we also must believe that the commandments concerning murder, theft, adultery, idol worship and others have also been removed, which simply would not make any sense.

Therefore it becomes easy to see with honest and accurate bible study that the law that was nailed to the cross and taken out of our way was the Ceremonial Law of Moses, NOT the Ten Commandments of God or any part of the Ten Commandments, because it was the Ceremonial Law of Moses that was the handwritten witness against us, which Colossians 2:14 shows as being nailed to the cross.

Again, none of God's law are against us, but rather what is a witness against us is when we do not follow them. In Colossians 2:14, it does not refer to any of God's laws being nailed to the cross and the Bible never uses the Greek word "dogma" to refer to any of God's laws. Jesus gave himself to pay the penalty for our sins, not to do away with laws that were given as a gift for our own good. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself to free us from any of God's laws, but in order to free us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience the Mosaic Law is the way to believe in what he accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20). In Psalms 119:160, all of God's righteous laws are eternal, not just ten of them.

About His Ten Commandment God explicitly states:

Deuteronomy 5:29
O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

None of those verses specify that they are only speaking about ten of God's commandments, but rather the phrase "Law and the Prophets" in Matthew 5:17 straightforwardly refers to everything commanded in the Law and the Prophets.

 

[sawdust]

Agreed. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he might know Him and Israel too, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the point of the law is to teach us how to know God and Jesus, which is eternal life (John 17:3), which is also why Jesus said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments (Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:25-28)

"To fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will (as made know through His law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo). After Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in Matthew 5:17-20, he then proceeded to fulfill it six times throughout the rest of the chapter by teaching how to correctly obey it. In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus summarizes the law as being about how to love God and our neighbors, so love fulfills the law because it shows a correct understanding of what it is about how to do. Moreover, the fact that anyone can fulfill the entire law by loving their neighbor means that countless people have fulfilled the law. God is not in disagreement with Himself about which laws we should follow, so the Law of Christ is the same as the Law of the Spirit and the Law of the Father, which was given to Moses, which is not different than loving others.


God's word does not return void.


The work is of God is straightforwardly to do the works that God has commanded in His word, especially because God's word is instructions for how to believe in God's word made flesh. We can't believe in God's word made flesh by refusing to obey God's word. In Hebrews 4:11, it says to strive to enter into God's rest so that no one may fall away by the same sort of disobedience, so using entering into God's rest to justify the same sort of disobedience is exactly the opposite of what was being said.

You say "agree" then proceed to disagree.

We are not under the Law. We are not under the Old Covenant. This is a new dispensation. God is dealing with people at the moment under a new covenant. There is no longer Jew or Gentile divided by one side being given the Law and the other side without. It is a new and living way to walk in. (Heb.10:19-21) You keep quoting either OT or Jesus words when speaking to Jews under the Law to justify Sabbath keeping. Jesus is our rest, we rest in Him as our Sabbath now.

You can't throw Jesus away as our rest and replace Him with one day of the week!​

We do not murder, lie, cheat or steal because there are commands in the OT against such things. We refrain from such behaviour because the love of Christ constrains us. During the incarnation, Christ kept the Sabbath perfectly. Do you think we can do a better job of Sabbath keeping than Him? (rhetorical question everyone knows we can't)

Romans 10:4
Christ has fulfilled everything the law was meant to do. So now everyone who believes can be right with God.


The work of God is straightforward, it is to believe the One He has sent just as scripture says. This is the only way one can be justified before God.

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

 

[Soyeong]

You say "agree" then proceed to disagree.

I can agree with things like that Jesus fulfilled the law and that we are under the Law of the Spirit and the Law of Christ, but disagree about how those statements should be understood.

We are not under the Law.

Agreed. Paul spoke about a number of different categories of law other than the Law of God, such as works of the law and the law of sin, so it is important to correctly identify which law he was saying that we are not under. For example, in Romans 7:25-8:2, Paul contrasted the Law of God with the law of sin and contrasted the Law of the Spirit of Life with the law of sin and death. In Romans 6:14, Paul described the law that we are not under as being a law where sin had dominion over us, which does not describe the Law of God, which is a law where holiness, righteousness, and goodness have dominion over us (Romans 7:12), but rather it is the law of sin where sin had dominion over us. Furthermore, in Romans 6:15, being under grace does not mean that we are permitted to sin, and in 1 John 3:4, sin is the transgression of the Law of God, so we are still under the Law of God.

We are not under the Old Covenant.

In Galatians 3:16-19, a new covenant does not nullify the promise of a covenant that has already been ratified, so the New Covenant does not nullify our need to obey the Mosaic Law in connection with the promise.

This is a new dispensation.

God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, so Dispensationalism is false. God's nature is eternal, so any laws that God has ever given for how to testify about His nature are eternally valid.

God is dealing with people at the moment under a new covenant.

The New Covenant involves following the Mosaic Law (Jeremiah 31:33).

There is no longer Jew or Gentile divided by one side being given the Law and the other side without.

We are all one in Christ, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, and he walked in obedience to the Mosaic Law.

It is a new and living way to walk in. (Heb.10:19-21)

It should not make sense to you to interpret the Bible as speaking against obeying what He has commanded.

You keep quoting either OT or Jesus words when speaking to Jews under the Law to justify Sabbath keeping. Jesus is our rest, we rest in Him as our Sabbath now.

In John 12:46-50, we are not given any room to disregard anything that Jesus taught during his ministry and he did not establish the New Covenant for the purpose of undermining anything that he taught. Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, and in Matthew 11:28-30, he was inviting people to come to him and learn from him, not inviting people to reject his example. By Jesus saying that we would find rest for our souls, he was referencing Jeremiah 6:16-19, where the Mosaic Law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls. If Jesus is our Sabbath rest, then we will live in a way that testifies about the truth of that fact by keeping the 7th day holy in accordance with the example that he set for us to follow.

You can't throw Jesus away as our rest and replace Him with one day of the week!​

Finding our rest in Jesus is not contrary to obeying what God has instructed. God has not mislead us away from having rest in Jesus through what He has instructed, but rather His instructions are for how to find our rest in Jesus.

We do not murder, lie, cheat or steal because there are commands in the OT against such things. We refrain from such behaviour because the love of Christ constrains us. During the incarnation, Christ kept the Sabbath perfectly. Do you think we can do a better job of Sabbath keeping than Him? (rhetorical question everyone knows we can't)

God's law is God's word and Christ is God's word made flesh, so it is contradictory to obey because you love God's word made flesh, but not because you love God's word. I have not suggest that we can do a better job of keeping the Sabbath than Jesus.

Romans 10:4
Christ has fulfilled everything the law was meant to do. So now everyone who believes can be right with God.

The work of God is straightforward, it is to believe the One He has sent just as scripture says. This is the only way one can be justified before God.

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

Obedience to any set of instructions is about b believing in the one who gave them to us to correctly guide us, which is wy there are many verses that connect our believe in God with our obedience to Him. For example, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Law of God. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith. In Romans 3:31, our faith upholds God's law. In James 2:18, he would show his faith by his works. In Hebrews 11, every example of faith is an example of works. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. In Numbers 5:6, disobedience to God's law is referred to as breaking faith. In Hebrews 3:18-19, unbelief is equated with disobedience.

By doing good works in obedience to God's law, we are testifying about God's goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:16), so doing good works is also the way to believe that God is good, in other words, it is the way to believe in Him.

 

[sawdust]

I can agree with things like that Jesus fulfilled the law and that we are under the Law of the Spirit and the Law of Christ, but disagree about how those statements should be understood.

No you can't. Words have meaning. You cannot agree with the statement while trying to apply a different meaning to what it actually says. Nowhere does it say the Law of the Spirit or the Law of Christ is the Mosaic Law. The Mosaic Law was given for a specific time to a specific people. So unless you are a Jew living between 1400bc to 30ad (approx) then you are not under the Mosaic Law.

Obedience to any set of instructions is about b believing in the one who gave them to us to correctly guide us

No, not necessarily. People can obey instructions through fear of punishment or guilt or wanting to belong to a group. What motivates obedience to rules and regulations can have nothing to with faith in the one who set the rules. This is why we walk according to the Spirit by grace through faith and not according to rules and regulations. Following Christ is not a formula but a dynamic and living way. Anyone can follow a rule, few know how to rest in faith.

God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, so Dispensationalism is false. God's nature is eternal, so any laws that God has ever given for how to testify about His nature are eternally valid.

Dispensationalism has nothing to do with the nature of God. It's about how He has dealt with people at different times throughout history. Was Noah under the Law? No, he wasn't, it was a different time (dispensation). It is the equivalent of how a parent treats a child of 2years compared to a 10yo. You have different expectations and different requirements for them to fulfill. In the same way God has dealt with humanity on the basis of different requirements over the course of history. Only the Jews were given the Mosaic Law. Sabbath keeping is part of that Law. Teaching Gentiles they have to keep the Sabbath is something even Moses did not do.

I have nothing more to say on the matter. Have a nice day

 

[Mr GLee]

In Hebrews 3:18-19, they did not enter into God's rest because of their unbelief/disobedience, and in Ezekiel 20:13, it specifically mentions that they greatly profaned God's Sabbaths, so someone refusing to keep the 7th day holy is hardening their heart.

As a shadow of a moral law (ceremonial) )They did nothing to the user .

It was a sign to the whole world not to their own dying flesh ,

God could use it as if it was a moral law to wake up the pew nappers . But the word rest is not a time sensitive word. According to Hebrew 4 its a 24\7 deal It should been given the english translation . Take away the confusion between the moral and the cerinimoinal .

What do you think the purpose of the ceremonial shadows is ? Buy one's way to heaven?