Do a Covenant of Works and a Covenant of Grace Exist?

[Ladodgers6]

Go DODGERS!!!

 

[Soyeong]

Aren't you missing why one needs to be reborn in the first place?​

Nope.

See, Soyeong you think man is inherently good and possesses the attributes needed to save him/herself. This is called Pelagianism or Semi-Pelagianism. Fallen man is lost in sin. Already condemned by One Man's Sin that brought sin, death and condemnation on us all.​

I've never suggested that we can save ourselves, so please address what I've said. Someone saving themselves does not involve relying on anyone else, so it is contradictory to think that someone who is relying on God's instructions is trying to save themselves.

You say one needs to attain a character trait. Okay, how can they do this without the Spirit?​

The character traits of God are the fruits of the Spirit, so can't happen without the Spirit.

And furthermore you are placing all your eggs in human effort to be justified, instead of trusting God and His Promise word of the Gospel that gives what the Law demands of us in His Son.​

I've never suggested that it takes human effort to become justified, but rather the one and only way to become justified is through faith. God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust in God is by obediently trusting in His instructions and it is contradictory to think that we should trust in God instead of trusting in His instructions.

In In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and God's law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message, which is in accordance with Acts 3:25-26, where Jesus was sent in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us form our wickedness.

For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness.​

In Romans 9:30-10:4, the Israelites had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowing Him, so they failed to attain righteousness because they misunderstood the goal of the law by pursuing it as though righteousness could be earned as the result of their works in order to establish their own rather than by pursuing it as through righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 10:5-10, this faith references Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to proclaiming that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey, that obedience to it brings life and a blessing, in regard to what we are agreeing to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raised Jesus from the dead for salvation. So nothing in this passage has anything to do with Jesus ending God's law, but just the opposite. It doesn't even make sense to interpret Romans 10:4 as God's word made flesh caused himself to cease to exist by ending God's word.

You will know when you have the Gospel understood correctly in regards to the justification of the sinner, when people start you charge you with antinomianism. As they did Paul. Because the Gospel Promise is not earned, or deserved, but given by the Grace and Mercy of God, as a free gift. This is why Paul makes a contrast between works and gift in Romans 4. Either a debt from works is owed or a free gift is given freely. But who can boast before God about their works that incurs a debt from God? Sinners are in a misery state of sin, and are bound by sin, and only Christ can frees us from it.​

Again, the Gospel of the Kingdom that Jesus spent his ministry teaching called for us to repent from transgressing God's law, so if people start to charge with antifeminism, then that is when you know that you've completely misunderstood the Gospel. Paul also taught the Gospel of the Kingdom based on God's law (Acts 14:21-22, 20:24-25, 28:23, Romans 15:4, 18-19). God did not give His law as a means of earning the promise, but that does not mean that the content of what God promised is not in regard to spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom.

You place too much good faith in man, Soyeong. Instead you should place your hope and faith in another, namely Christ Jesus and His finished works. As Christ's final words were, "It is finished"!​

I said nothing to suggest that we should put our faith in man instead of placing our hope and faith in Christ. It is contradictory to this that we should put our hope and faith in God's word made flesh instead of in God's word. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe in the work that Christ finished through the cross (Acts 21:20).

 

[Soyeong]

Though I understand what you are saying. A leopard cannot change its spots. By nature we do what we are; meaning since the fall, man has fallen into the abyss of darkness, evil, suffering, lust and are now sons of disobedience. This is why sinners need to be redeem from the outside of themselves. The traits or new behaviors they become is because God regenerates them from within by His Spirit. To say, they can believe on their own is an error. Scripture teaches that man is in only two places; either in Adam or in Christ; either dead in sin or alive in Christ by the Spirit. And from this comes faith, trust, justification, sanctification, discipleship, doxology.​

I've said nothing to suggest that we can believe on our own. In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked.

Well Soyeong, you obviously haven't heard the glorious good news of the Gospel for the ungodly! The Law or human works cannot redeem them anymore that a leopard can change his spots. To suggest that it is the works of dead men (sinners) that justify them is the lies of the Devil. Again trying to deceive and pervert the Gospel promise. And this Gospel Promise is that what the Law could not do; which is redeem sinners because the Law is weak through the flesh. The Law only brings death because of our sin! The only works that can redeem us is the works of Christ! But you never mention Christ and His finished works, only the works of men, like the Pharisees and Scribes who seek their own glory to boast before men and God himself. And Christ rebuked them and called them white washed tombs filled of deadman bones. The Promise gives freely the gift of Christ's righteousness. Which for whatever reason think this is impossible or a lie. Well, Soyeong, this is the good news for the ungodly who believe in Him who justifies the ungodly. Paul doesn't say that God justifies the godly man but the ungodly in Romans 4:5. For what does a righteous godly man need to be redeemed and justified? Christ came to heal the sick, and to save sinners. ​

I've said nothing to suggest that the God's law or human works can redeem us. God's law is God's works, not human works. I've said nothing to suggest that we can justify ourselves by our works. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possessions who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross. In Romans 10:5-10, the word of faith that we proclaim and that you deny is that obedience to God's law brings life and a blessing. I frequently mention Christ and his finished works. God did not give His law so that we could have something to boast about. Christ expressed His righteousness through his actions by being a doer of God's law, so that is what we have the gift of getting to be a doer of when we are freely given the gift of Christ's righteousness. I've said nothing to suggest that God justifies the godly. Obeying God's law had absolutely nothing to do with trying to become redeemed or justified, so that is not the reason why we should obey it. Everyone who has faith will declared righteous and everyone who has faith is a doer of God's law, which is how Pal can deny in Romans 4:1-5 that we can earn our righteousness as the result of our works while also maintaining in Romans 2:13 that only the doer of God's law will be declared righteous.

But his obeying is not why he is declared righteous! You are conflating and perverting the truth here. Scripture states that Abraham BELIEVED God and it was counted as righteousness; he was declared right then, "Righteous" before God. Not by his works! 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. Why not before God? Because Faith Soyeong removes all human boasting? 27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. It is crystal clear Soyeong that our works do not justify us only the righteousness of another that is received through faith Alone apart from our works, so that no one can boast!​

I've said nothing to suggest that Abraham was declared righteous as the result of his works, but that I specifically denied that. Again, I said that while it is true that Abraham believed God, so he was declared righteous (Genesis 15:6), it is also true that he believed God, so he obeyed God's command to offer Isaac (Hebrews 11:17), so the same faith by which he was declared righteous was also expressed by being an obeyer of God, but he did not earn his righteousness and a wage as the result of His obedience. Please address what I've said instead of burning straw men.

 

[Soyeong]

Romans 3:9-18 NKJV
What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin. [10] As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one; [11] There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God. [12] They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one." [13] "Their throat is an open tomb; With their tongues they have practiced deceit"; "The poison of asps is under their lips"; [14] "Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness." [15] "Their feet are swift to shed blood; [16] Destruction and misery are in their ways; [17] And the way of peace they have not known." [18]
"There is no fear of God before their eyes."

In other words, no one is counted righteous apart from faith in Jesus Christ.

I completely agree and have never suggested otherwise.

I'll leave with a Steve Garvey quote @Ladodgers6 ...

"You place too much good faith in man, Soyeong. Instead you should place your hope and faith in another, namely Christ Jesus and His finished works. As Christ's final words were, "It is finished"!"

I said nothing about putting faith in man instead of Christ. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe in what he accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20).

 

[Ladodgers6]

Nope.

Well, this is why your position is flawed and distorted.

I've never suggested that we can save ourselves, so please address what I've said. Someone saving themselves does not involve relying on anyone else, so it is contradictory to think that someone who is relying on God's instructions is trying to save themselves.

You may say this but your comments say otherwise. See, Soyeong you are looking for exhortation, instructions on how to save yourself. This is the error and heresy that has plagued the church for centuries. The Promise found in the Gospel is given freely to those who believe and trust in Him who has done everything to redeem and justify the ungodly. Faith Soyeong removes any boasting on our part, why? Because there is nothing we can do or ever will do to earn our salvation through our hands. It's all of God and His Grace and Mercy. This is the part you are missing. It is God himself who came down in the flesh to fulfill the Law, be tempted by the devil, live a perfect live of Righteousness and Holiness, suffered, was tortured, and brutally murdered, a perfect sacrifice for the ungodly.​

The character traits of God are the fruits of the Spirit, so can't happen without the Spirit.

Again you guys mix up Justification with Sanctification. The fruits of the Spirit were purchased by the blood of the Lamb. He finished it all for us. We are given these blessings through Faith Alone in Christ Alone. These fruits of the Spirit is the result of Christ's work, not ours, do you understand this?

I've never suggested that it takes human effort to become justified, but rather the one and only way to become justified is through faith. God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust in God is by obediently trusting in His instructions and it is contradictory to think that we should trust in God instead of trusting in His instructions.

Well, this is all you talk about. No mention of Christ and His finished works.

In In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and God's law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message, which is in accordance with Acts 3:25-26, where Jesus was sent in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us form our wickedness.

Yes, repent and believe. A change of direction to God. A change of mind. See, you say you never suggested that it takes human effort to become justified, but here you suggest it. Our repenting is not the cause of our justification before God. This would mean that a sinner is justified through their repenting; works, Soyeong. Christ purchased our Faith and Repentance through His Birth, Life, Death and Resurrection. This is talking about our Sanctification as believers. I am talking about how a sinner is justified before a Holy God. Which I believe you do not know what this means.​

In Romans 9:30-10:4, the Israelites had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowing Him, so they failed to attain righteousness because they misunderstood the goal of the law by pursuing it as though righteousness could be earned as the result of their works in order to establish their own rather than by pursuing it as through righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 10:5-10, this faith references Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to proclaiming that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey, that obedience to it brings life and a blessing, in regard to what we are agreeing to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raised Jesus from the dead for salvation. So nothing in this passage has anything to do with Jesus ending God's law, but just the opposite. It doesn't even make sense to interpret Romans 10:4 as God's word made flesh caused himself to cease to exist by ending God's word.

Romans will not help Soyeong. Because the Israelites didn't believe in the Righteousness of God that is given to those who believe. They are ignorant of the Righteousness of God that comes through the Gospel Promise. They refused to submit to this Righteousness of God in the Gospel. So, they set out to establish their own, through their own hands, instead of Christ's hands. For Christ is the end of the Law for Righteousness; meaning we will never find righteousness in the Law, in our doing, but only and solely on Christ and His doing.​

Again, the Gospel of the Kingdom that Jesus spent his ministry teaching called for us to repent from transgressing God's law, so if people start to charge with antifeminism, then that is when you know that you've completely misunderstood the Gospel. Paul also taught the Gospel of the Kingdom based on God's law (Acts 14:21-22, 20:24-25, 28:23, Romans 15:4, 18-19). God did not give His law as a means of earning the promise, but that does not mean that the content of what God promised is not in regard to spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Yes, but again you are confusing the Promise with Works as Paul demonstrates in Romans 4. To the One who does not work (who doesn't trust in his own hands to earn favor with God, because he/she knows they are condemned sinners before a Holy God), the only way to be justified before a Holy God is by the Righteousness of Christ that is receive with empty hands (nothing to offer for it) and trust in solely Christ for the remission of sin, and by the imputation of His Righteousness that covers us like a white garment of Salvation. From this and only from this can the fruits flow from the Spirit because being Justified in Christ before God, we can now live to God, because we are now His children, His bride, and if His bride, then we inherit everything Christ possessess, understand?
​

I said nothing to suggest that we should put our faith in man instead of placing our hope and faith in Christ. It is contradictory to this that we should put our hope and faith in God's word made flesh instead of in God's word. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe in the work that Christ finished through the cross (Acts 21:20).​

Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit

Isaiah 61:10 I will rejoice greatly in the LORD, my soul will exult in my God; for He has clothed me with garments of salvation and wrapped me in a robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom wears a priestly headdress, as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

 

[Ladodgers6]

IDK what to tell you because your words speaks volumes of legalism. A distorting of the Gospel or turning the Gospel into Law. Grace Soyeong is not earned or deserved but given freely as a gift. This is what you do not understand. You keep trying to sneak works in through the back door, just like the false apostles Paul rebuked and cursed.

 

[Mr GLee]

I've never suggested that it takes human effort to become justified, but rather the one and only way to become justified is through faith. God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust in God is by obediently trusting in His instructions and it is contradictory to think that we should trust in God instead of trusting in His instructions.

Through the faith of God or our own ?

 

[Soyeong]

Through the faith of God or our own ?

Faith is not at apart from its object.

 

[Mr GLee]

Faith is not at apart from its object.

Yes the "Let there be" and the object "was good" ..

The law of faith as power or labor of His love . Work of faith. Like fire faith works. . No fire. not fires works .No faith no work. Work by or with Christ faith . . . altogether one thing .Satan makes it into many. . . no fiery faith a dud

The Fathers powerful labor of love worked in Jesus the Son of man as a apostle sent out to both reveal his understanding and empower him to perform it . Jesus empowered by the father finishing the work of two and received the reward of an apostle. Beautiful feet washing.

You could say in the same way my dear wife faithfully sends me out a on mission to the Supermarket with a written list not to add or subtract from.

Mission accomplished the apostle Mr. GLee's reward. . . Two home made peanut butters cookies and and cold the glass of whole milk . The simply gospel as it is faithfully written

 

[makesends]

Notice the method employed here, to force a conclusion that does not follow. This is like most of the books in the Christian book store: Besides denying exactly what your belief reduces to, you try to show that what you believe is scriptural by referencing a verse that only describes one of your terms, as though it proves your logic. And this I know, without even looking to see what Psalms 19:7 actually says, because I know that the Bible contains nothing that is not supported by the rest of scripture, nor anything that does not logically follow —well, that, and I have a pretty good memory of what Psalm 19 is about.

I've never suggested that it takes human effort to become justified, but rather the one and only way to become justified is through faith. God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust in God is by obediently trusting in His instructions and it is contradictory to think that we should trust in God instead of trusting in His instructions.

We already know his law is trustworthy. So why back up from that to a logical precedent as though it was needed to prove what we already know? It is as though backing up from what we already know, is to get a running start at the logical long jump ("so the way to trust in God is by obediently trusting in His instructions") and the jump's illogical recovery to upright stance ("it is contradictory to think that we should trust in God instead of trusting in His instructions.")

Or maybe you needed to get up some momentum because you want to slide 'under the table' the notion that trusting his law = trusting in God = salvation.

Reading you is like watching a CG action scene where there is no way in the world for something to happen that they portray as though it is really happening, in spite of the physical implausibility.

I'm guessing, if you are to answer this at all, that you will miss (ignore?) my point altogether, and go on to push your thesis.

 

[Soyeong]

Notice the method employed here, to force a conclusion that does not follow. This is like most of the books in the Christian book store: Besides denying exactly what your belief reduces to, you try to show that what you believe is scriptural by referencing a verse that only describes one of your terms, as though it proves your logic. And this I know, without even looking to see what Psalms 19:7 actually says, because I know that the Bible contains nothing that is not supported by the rest of scripture, nor anything that does not logically follow —well, that, and I have a pretty good memory of what Psalm 19 is about.

We already know his law is trustworthy. So why back up from that to a logical precedent as though it was needed to prove what we already know? It is as though backing up from what we already know, is to get a running start at the logical long jump ("so the way to trust in God is by obediently trusting in His instructions") and the jump's illogical recovery to upright stance ("it is contradictory to think that we should trust in God instead of trusting in His instructions.")

Or maybe you needed to get up some momentum because you want to slide 'under the table' the notion that trusting his law = trusting in God = salvation.

Reading you is like watching a CG action scene where there is no way in the world for something to happen that they portray as though it is really happening, in spite of the physical implausibility.

I'm guessing, if you are to answer this at all, that you will miss (ignore?) my point altogether, and go on to push your thesis.

You did a lot of complaining about what I’ve said, but you neglected to actually show where anything that I’ve said was wrong. We can take actions that express faith, so the significance of our obedience to God’s law has nothing to do with trying to earn our salvation as the result, but rather the significance is that it is the way to have faith and it is by that faith alone that we are being saved. Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God’s law (1 John 3:4), so Jesus leading us to be a doer of God’s law is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it.

 

[makesends]

makesends said:
Notice the method employed here, to force a conclusion that does not follow. This is like most of the books in the Christian book store: Besides denying exactly what your belief reduces to, you try to show that what you believe is scriptural by referencing a verse that only describes one of your terms, as though it proves your logic. And this I know, without even looking to see what Psalms 19:7 actually says, because I know that the Bible contains nothing that is not supported by the rest of scripture, nor anything that does not logically follow —well, that, and I have a pretty good memory of what Psalm 19 is about.

We already know his law is trustworthy. So why back up from that to a logical precedent as though it was needed to prove what we already know? It is as though backing up from what we already know, is to get a running start at the logical long jump ("so the way to trust in God is by obediently trusting in His instructions") and the jump's illogical recovery to upright stance ("it is contradictory to think that we should trust in God instead of trusting in His instructions.")

Or maybe you needed to get up some momentum because you want to slide 'under the table' the notion that trusting his law = trusting in God = salvation.

Reading you is like watching a CG action scene where there is no way in the world for something to happen that they portray as though it is really happening, in spite of the physical implausibility.

I'm guessing, if you are to answer this at all, that you will miss (ignore?) my point altogether, and go on to push your thesis.

You did a lot of complaining about what I’ve said, but you neglected to actually show where anything that I’ve said was wrong. We can take actions that express faith, so the significance of our obedience to God’s law has nothing to do with trying to earn our salvation as the result, but rather the significance is that it is the way to have faith and it is by that faith alone that we are being saved. Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God’s law (1 John 3:4), so Jesus leading us to be a doer of God’s law is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it.

Wow! Well done! You not only manage to sidestep my point; you also have handily put the ball back in my court!

I'll just leave it alone, since it landed out of bounds.

 

[Ladodgers6]

Faith is not at apart from its object.

It's not Faith that saves us, but the object of our Faith that saves us; namely Christ Jesus and His finished works. Faith passively receives what redeems us. And Faith too is a gift of God along with all the other evangelical gifts of Salvation. Like repentance is also a gift from God. Sinners possess none of these Spiritual Gifts from God.​

 

[Mr GLee]

It's not Faith that saves us, but the object of our Faith that saves us; namely Christ Jesus and His finished works. Faith passively receives what redeems us. And Faith too is a gift of God along with all the other evangelical gifts of Salvation. Like repentance is also a gift from God. Sinners possess none of these Spiritual Gifts from God.​

It is the faith or labor of Christ love by which we are saved . (work of faith) the let there be and it was good kind

Many are deceived to believe that God does not need faith (power) The same faith that worked in the Son of man Jesus.to both reveal the Holy Father's undestanding and empower mankind dead in thier trespass to perform it to the Father's (Holy Spirit) good pleasure .

 

[Ladodgers6]

It is the faith or labor of Christ love by which we are saved . (work of faith) the let there be and it was good kind

Many are deceived to believe that God does not need faith (power) The same faith that worked in the Son of man Jesus.to both reveal the Holy Father's undestanding and empower mankind dead in thier trespass to perform it to the Father's (Holy Spirit) good pleasure .

It is Christ incarnate and His fulfillment of His Father's will.

“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

 

[Mr GLee]

incarnate

Amen, Jesus the son of man is not ashamed to call us brother and sisters in the Lord . All power is attributed to Christ the husband. The invisible power that our Father works in his creatures.

Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

God is not a man as us

 

[Ladodgers6]

Amen, Jesus the son of man is not ashamed to call us brother and sisters in the Lord . All power is attributed to Christ the husband. The invisible power that our Father works in his creatures.

Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Yup!

God is not a man as us

Here, I tend to disagree with you. Because God did come in the flesh. He was a man like us, He did this to condemn sin in His sin. Also to fulfill the broken Covenant of Works that the first Adam breached with his disobedience and by fulfilling the Law with His obedience he merited perfect righteousness before God and for our Justification.

He signed His own death warrant knowing exactly what He would endure. A sinner's death and punishment. Suffering in the flesh, tortured in the flesh, strips and wounds upon His flesh, torn and broken flesh, blood and sweat upon His body, nailed and crucified. Yes, Glee God did become a man like us.​

 

[Mr GLee]

Yup!

Here, I tend to disagree with you. Because God did come in the flesh. He was a man like us, He did this to condemn sin in His sin. Also to fulfill the broken Covenant of Works that the first Adam breached with his disobedience and by fulfilling the Law with His obedience he merited perfect righteousness before God and for our Justification.

He signed His own death warrant knowing exactly what He would endure. A sinner's death and punishment. Suffering in the flesh, tortured in the flesh, strips and wounds upon His flesh, torn and broken flesh, blood and sweat upon His body, nailed and crucified. Yes, Glee God did become a man like us.​

God comes working with and in the flesh of all believers. Not just Jesus the Son of man who became born again according the power of the Faithful Father that worked in Jesus.

No faithful "Let there be" power is attributed to the Son of God, Jesus .the same with us

Remember the Son of man suffering was about about the father who bruised the heal of the Son crushing the head serpent strengthening the Son of man to finish the work of the father .Again no power attributed to the Son of man. . dying mankind .

 

[Ladodgers6]

God comes working with and in the flesh of all believers.

Jesus came to do His Father's will. A Priest was once asked, Father are we saved by Faith or Works, neither, the Father replied. But by the sheer mercy of God. It is Christ who redeem us, not believers. It is always Grace centered; namely Christ centered.​

Not just Jesus the Son of man who became born again according the power of the Faithful Father that worked in Jesus.

It is Christ who has the power to lie down His life and take it up again. Meaning He and the Father are One and the same, but distinct.

No faithful "Let there be" power is attributed to the Son of God, Jesus .the same with us

You can deny Jesus Christ being God himself in the flesh. Not only is that a fatal error, but it is a condemned heresy by the early churches and beyond.

John 10:18No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from My Father.”​

God doesn't share His glory with anyone. But Christ is glorified by His people and Apostles.

Remember the Son of man suffering was about about the father who bruised the heal of the Son crushing the head serpent strengthening the Son of man to finish the work of the father .Again no power attributed to the Son of man. . dying mankind .

I agree with some of this, but it is the serpent who bruise the heel of the Son Genesis 3:14-15. And Christ has the power to lie down His own life, nobody takes it form him. So, again scripture states that He is God who came in the flesh.

 

[Mr GLee]

Jesus came to do His Father's will. A Priest was once asked, Father are we saved by Faith or Works, neither, the Father replied. But by the sheer mercy of God. It is Christ who redeem us, not believers. It is always Grace centered; namely Christ centered.

We are to call no on earth Father he warns us of antichrists' that say we need men to teach us.

It is Christ who has the power to lie down His life and take it up again. Meaning He and the Father are One and the same, but distinct.

Christ the husband powerfully as a work of faith worked in the Son of man Jesus giving him power to believe the father just like any born again believer .

Jesus is not ashamed to call us brothers and sisters

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

You can deny Jesus Christ being God himself in the flesh. Not only is that a fatal error, but it is a condemned heresy by the early churches and beyond.

John 10:18No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from My Father.”​

I have no concern for the idea of early church fathers (catholic doctrine) One is our father not seen .

I have not denied Christ the spiritual seed of the father, It worked in the dying d flesh and blood of the Son of man, Jesus as with all of those born of the Spirit of Christ .If any man has not the Spirit of Christ then they do not belong to him

Jesus our brother in the Lord can lay down and pick up by the mighty power received by the father . He had no power of his own .2 Corinthians 4:7

God doesn't share His glory with anyone. But Christ is glorified by His people and Apostles.

How beautiful are their feet shod with the gospel. The living word glorifies the Father .The apostles as nothing.