Dispensationalism and Covenant Theology

[ShepherdsPie]

…that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. - Ephesians 1:10 (NKJV)

So the “fullness of the times” is one dispensation?

 

[Carbon]

If I may that word is better translated as such…and is in many of the best word for word translations.
“as a plan for the fullness of time, to bring everything together in Christ, things in heaven and things on earth.”
Perhaps this helps.


(Ephesians 1:10 MOUNCE-NT)

Accordance

accordance.bible

@ShepherdsPie

I agree with Alive.

If I may only add. Namely, in the time prefixed by His providence. Which is the dispenser of times and the whole order of things. For the fulfilling of His promise concerning the Messiah.

that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.

- Ephesians 1:10 (NKJV)

both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.

This part could be referring to men's spirits, already gathered up into heaven and to believers yet living here on earth
to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, Heb 12:23.

Some understand this as holy angels, who the faithful have communion with under the same Head, namely Christ.
and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over every ruler and authority; Co 2:10.

 

[Carbon]

I hope I’m not interrupting your flow, @Carbon, but when you get a chance, could you help me interpret the following verse? When is this dispensation?

Your not interrupting me at all. I'm just laying down the basis for this discussion.

 

[Alive]

Ya…I think everything means everything in Creation. Every thing.
Now…not every thing is in consonance with Him, but will be.

 

[ShepherdsPie]

Ya…I think everything means everything in Creation. Every thing.
Now…not every thing is in consonance with Him, but will be.

Did you answer my question in post #41? …or did I miss it?

 

[EarlyActs]

Not by Scripture's use of the two terms.

Exactly. He preserved the D system, no matter what.

 

[Alive]

…that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. - Ephesians 1:10 (NKJV)

So the “fullness of the times” is one dispensation?

Hmmmm?
No. I would say it is the culmination of His Eternal Plan and Purpose.

 

[Alive]

Did you answer my question in post #41? …or did I miss it?

I did not see it until now.

 

[EarlyActs]

F.
Grace
Acts 2:1 - Rev 19:21.

When Israel, God's chosen people, rejected the kingdom and crucified their king, God now turned to the Gentiles to deal with them through the grace of His Son's death for the formation of a bobe of people for Himself. This body of people was the Church. This is a parenthetical period until God turns once again to deal with His chosen people, Israel. The point of testing in this period is the acceptance of Jesus Christ. The period will, however, end in failure with the apostasy of the professing church and resultant apocalyptic judgments.

Close, but the definition of Israel was corrected from the race-nation in Romans, so we need to follow along. We stand by faith--or fall without it.

There is no unknown parenthesis about it, then, bc that would have to do with race-nations, which never was the case. There are quality theological studies out about how the remnant within Israel was never the whole community/nation. As for being known, Acts 15's quote of Amos 9 is clear about that.

This leads to why Eph 3 (Col 1, 2, 4, Rom 16--not 11's mystery of blindedness) etc would say there is a mystery. Look closely at the explanation there. There is an emphatic prep. phrase 'through the Gospel' which is the answer. Judaism thought the Gentiles would enter through the Law. Thus the final difference between the two: not that there would be a mission to the nations (see Mt 23), but that it would take place apart from the Law.

 

[EarlyActs]

Hmmmm?
No. I would say it is the culmination of His Eternal Plan and Purpose.

The arrival of Jesus was the fulness of time, Gal 4. Us 'know-it-alls' would like to think differently.

 

[ShepherdsPie]

Hmmmm?
No. I would say it is the culmination of His Eternal Plan and Purpose.

…but the Bible uses the word “dispensation.” ?

 

[EarlyActs]

Yes, he believed God had two plans of salvation. One for the Jews and another for the Church. He was wrong of course.

Two of everything!

 

[Carbon]

E.
The Mosaic Covenant
Exodus 19-24.

Time will be spent at this juncture proving the covenant aspect of the Mosaic revelation. That is not a point of dispute. A reading of Exodus 24 and the surrounding passages will show to anyone that God entered into a covenant with Israel at this time of their history. The real point of discussion must center on several key points which are essential in understanding the view of Covenant Theology concerning the Mosaic Covenant.


First, the Abrahamic covenant of promise was not annulled or even temporally replaced by the Mosaic Covenant (see Galatians 3:15-18). Thus whatever one says about the Mosiac Covenant, it must be in agreement with the fact that it is subservient to the Abrahamic Covenant.

Second, the law was not something new in the Mosaic Covenant. Every Biblical covenant refers to the will of God for man, that is, God's requirement of obedience as God relates Himself to man even in a gracious manner.

Third, clearly the law did not end with the Mosaic Covenant when the subsequent covenants followed (see II Samuel 7:14; Matthew 5:17-19; and Romans 7:7, 12). Obviously, we speak here of the moral law and not the ceremonial law, in that the ceremonial law was fulfilled in Christ, being only the shadow of the reality of His final work. But in that, the moral law was never given as a way of salvation, it never had to be repealed as the guide for God's people's lives.

Forth, the law continued the progress of God's revelation of His redemptive purpose. It was necessary for a people who now at this point of their history became a nation, in that it revealed to them the will of God for the individual as well as their national life. It was necessary also to humble them and teach them more fully the reality of sin and its nature and thus prepare them fro a proper understanding of the grace of God needed by them, not only at that point of their lives, but also the grace of God as all the covenants would culminate in the complete revelation of God's grace in the New Covenant.

F.
The Davidic Covenant

II Samuel 7:1-16
I Kings 2:1-4
I Kings 8:15-20, 25-26
I Kings 9:8
I Chronicles 17:3-15

The word Covenant does not appear in II Samuel 7:12-17, but the event recorded in this passage is spoken of as a covenant in other passages of Scripture (see Psalm 89:3-4, 28, 34; Psalm 132:11ff). Therefore, without question, what took place in those verses in II Samuel 7 was the establishment of a covenant with David.

Though all the covenants center on the grace of God, its need, and fulfillment in Christ, the Davidic Covenant is uniquely Messianic. David and his seed are promised establishment forever and a throne to all generations, but such promises are only to be fulfilled in Christ and His kingdom. The covenant is clearly gracious and administered sovereignly and involves a life and death commitment between God and the seed of David.

 

[Alive]

The arrival of Jesus was the fulness of time, Gal 4. Us 'know-it-alls' would like to think differently.

Context is key when looking at the phrase.
“But when the fullness of the time came, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,

regarding His plan of the fullness of the times, to bring all things together in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth.”

(Galatians 4:4; Ephesians 1:10 NAS20)

Accordance

accordance.bible

 

[EarlyActs]

The important thing about sorting out covenants is to remember that Gal 3 is mostly spoken to what Judaism thought at the time. The Judaizers (its missionaries) replaced the prior Promise to the nations with the Law. Thus they voided it. That is the original 1st cent. 'replacement theology' dilemma which must be addressed. The modern one doesn't really matter.

 

[Carbon]

Two of everything!

What?

 

[Carbon]

Context is key when looking at the phrase.
“But when the fullness of the time came, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, regarding His plan of the fullness of the times, to bring all things together in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth.”


(Galatians 4:4; Ephesians 1:10 NAS20)

Accordance

accordance.bible

Yep. And it's obvious not everyone uses context.

 

[EarlyActs]

…that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. - Ephesians 1:10 (NKJV)

So the “fullness of the times” is one dispensation?

It's the end of all that happened before Christ, Gal 4. Remember, most of what Paul writes is to answer problems raised by Judaizers; they were his main opponent, and he used to be their main spox.

 

[EarlyActs]

What?

Ryries two-list must include: gospels, peoples, atonements, and a bunch of others. This has nothing to do with the proper old v new; it is his two programs everywhere, which the movement later called 'rightly dividing the Word' a far-off-base handling.

Just a couple years ago, this two program structure forced a pastor to say that there are two atonements in the Bible, based on Dan 9, one for Gentiles in the NT, and one in the future for Jews, that Dan 9 was about. Not.

 

[Alive]

…but the Bible uses the word “dispensation.” ?

This is that word from the original and how it is used….see what is in bold font.

16:2 “And he summoned him and said to him, ‘What is this I hear about you? Give an accounting of your management, for you can no longer be manager.’ 3 “And the manager said to himself, ‘What am I to do, since my 1master is taking the management away from me? I am not strong enough to 2dig; I am ashamed to beg. 4 ‘I know what I will do, so that when I am removed from the management people will welcome me into their homes.’


1Cor. 9:17 For if I do this voluntarily, I have a areward; but if against my will, I have been entrusted with a commission nonetheless.


Eph. 1:10 regarding His plan of athe fullness of the times, bto bring all things together in Christ, things 1in the heavens and things on the earth.


Eph. 3:2 if indeed you have heard of the administration of God’s grace which was given to me for you;


Eph. 3:9 and to 1enlighten all people as to what the plan of the amystery is which for ages has been bhidden in God, cwho created all things;


Col. 1:25 aI 1was made a minister of this church according to the commission from God granted to me for your benefit, so that I might 2fully carry out the preaching of the word of God,


1Tim. 1:4 nor to 1pay attention to amyths and endless bgenealogies, which give rise to useless cspeculation rather than dadvance 2the plan of God, which is by faith, so I urge you now.