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Dispensationalism and Covenant Theology

It's the end of all that happened before Christ, Gal 4. Remember, most of what Paul writes is to answer problems raised by Judaizers; they were his main opponent, and he used to be their main spox.
Is the “fullness of the times” in Ephesians 1:10 different than the “fullness of the Gentiles be come in” in Romans 11:25?
Romans 11:25 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in."
 
F.
The Davidic Covenant

II Samuel 7:1-16
I Kings 2:1-4
I Kings 8:15-20, 25-26
I Kings 9:8
I Chronicles 17:3-15

The word Covenant does not appear in II Samuel 7:12-17, but the event recorded in this passage is spoken of as a covenant in other passages of Scripture (see Psalm 89:3-4, 28, 34; Psalm 132:11ff). Therefore, without question, what took place in those verses in II Samuel 7 was the establishment of a covenant with David.

Though all the covenants center on the grace of God, its need, and fulfillment in Christ, the Davidic Covenant is uniquely Messianic. David and his seed are promised establishment forever and a throne to all generations, but such promises are only to be fulfilled in Christ and His kingdom. The covenant is clearly gracious and administered sovereignly and involves a life and death commitment between God and the seed of David.
G.
The New Covenant

Jeremiah 31:31-34
Matthew 26:28
1 Corinthians 11:25
Hebrews 8-10

The New Covenant promised in the Old Testament, is fulfilled in the Person and work of Jesus Christ.
This New Covenant established by Christ is the culmination of all the previous covenants in that they did not exist in finality for themselves, but they existed as units of God's continuous revelation of Himself and His gracious plan for His people.

The New Covenant is not only a bond in that it ties God to His people, but it is ratified in blood - the blood of Christ Himself. It is sovereignly administered as God Himself sets the terms and applies its benefits to His elect in accordance with His sovereign grace and sovereign purpose from eternity past as stated in the Covenant of Grace.


Finally, though it is a gracious covenant, it still includes the responsibility of man to obey as evidenced in the entire New Testament from the teaching of Christ Himself throughout all the epistles. Grave warnings again are sounded for those who minimize or neglect obedience. And, again, it is the final culmination of the grace of God as evidenced in Christ that undeniably calls forth the covenant-related recipient of the glorious grace of God to joyful obedience.
 
Is the “fullness of the times” in Ephesians 1:10 different than the “fullness of the Gentiles be come in” in Romans 11:25?
Romans 11:25 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in."
In Rom. 11.25 Paul uses a different word meaning full measure or entire content.
 
Ryries two-list must include: gospels, peoples, atonements, and a bunch of others. This has nothing to do with the proper old v new; it is his two programs everywhere, which the movement later called 'rightly dividing the Word' a far-off-base handling.

Just a couple years ago, this two program structure forced a pastor to say that there are two atonements in the Bible, based on Dan 9, one for Gentiles in the NT, and one in the future for Jews, that Dan 9 was about. Not.
Okay.

However, you should know that dispensationalism teaches God has two plans.
 
In Rom. 11.25 Paul uses a different word meaning full measure or entire content.
So this could be referring to the 144,000 right before Jesus returns. Yes?
 
I’m tired now. Gotta go. :)
 
Okay, this is about to get more interesting.

It's time for a comparison of Dispensationalism and Covenant Theology.


Another way to sharpen one's understanding of the individual convictions of dispensationalism and Covenant theology, as well as distinguish their beliefs, is to compare the two systems in some of their main tenets. Notice the following subjects are delineated in each of these systems of theology. Movement from section to section may involve some overlapping in the present discussion as well as with the previous chapters.


Ready?
 
So this could be referring to the 144,000 right before Jesus returns. Yes?
If we take this literally, then no.
“And I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:”


(Revelation 7:4 NAS20)


 
I
God's People

A. Covenant Theology believes that God has one people, the Church, with two manifestations of it, one in the Old Testament and the other in the New Testament. What God has been doing since the fall of man concerns the calling out of a people to be His own. Thus the saints of God of the Old and New Testament eras compose the one body of Christ.

B. Dispensationalism postulates that God has two peoples - Israel, the Old Testament people of God (God's earthly people), and the Church, the New Testament people of God (His heavenly people) - with a strong antithesis between the two. Never do the two meet as far as equalling each other or including the one in the other.
 
I
God's People

A. Covenant Theology believes that God has one people, the Church, with two manifestations of it, one in the Old Testament and the other in the New Testament. What God has been doing since the fall of man concerns the calling out of a people to be His own. Thus the saints of God of the Old and New Testament eras compose the one body of Christ.

B. Dispensationalism postulates that God has two peoples - Israel, the Old Testament people of God (God's earthly people), and the Church, the New Testament people of God (His heavenly people) - with a strong antithesis between the two. Never do the two meet as far as equalling each other or including the one in the other.
II
God's plan for His people.

A. Covenant Theology states that since God has one people, the Church, He also has one plan in all the ages since the fall of Adam - to call out this one people into one body in both the Old Testament and the Old Testament ages.

B. Dispensationalism believes that since God has two peoples, Israel, and the Church, He also has two plans - a separate plan for each of these two distinct peoples. For Israel, His plan is the kingdom, which is yet to come, in light of Israel's rejection of the kingdom at Christ's coming. Concerning the Church, which is only present on earth during the Church age (which is a parenthetical period until God gets back to Israel and the kingdom), God's plan is to call out a heavenly people for Himself from the New Testament era.
 
II
God's plan for His people.

A. Covenant Theology states that since God has one people, the Church, He also has one plan in all the ages since the fall of Adam - to call out this one people into one body in both the Old Testament and the Old Testament ages.

B. Dispensationalism believes that since God has two peoples, Israel, and the Church, He also has two plans - a separate plan for each of these two distinct peoples. For Israel, His plan is the kingdom, which is yet to come, in light of Israel's rejection of the kingdom at Christ's coming. Concerning the Church, which is only present on earth during the Church age (which is a parenthetical period until God gets back to Israel and the kingdom), God's plan is to call out a heavenly people for Himself from the New Testament era.
Amen!
I like how Paul here makes this point clear.
So much laid out here by Paul.
He shows among other things how the covenant of Grace was always meant to extend beyond…to all men.
“For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if those who are of the Law are heirs, then faith is made void and the promise is nullified; for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.


For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, (as it is written: “I HAVE MADE YOU A FATHER OF MANY NATIONS”) in the presence of Him whom he believed, that is, God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that do not exist. In hope against hope he believed, so that he might become a father of many nations according to that which had been spoken, “SO SHALL YOUR DESCENDANTS BE.””


(Romans 4:13-18 NAS20)
 
EarlyActs said:
Ryrie summarized it with one line , one essential: Israel and the church are two separate programs that can’t unify.

makesends said:
Not by Scripture's use of the two terms.
Exactly. He preserved the D system, no matter what.
I think you misunderstood me. I'm saying he was wrong, by Scripture's use of the two terms.

The true Church IS real Israel. Not all that is of Jacob is Israel.
 
If we take this literally, then no.
“And I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:”


(Revelation 7:4 NAS20)


It’s not a literal number; it’s spiritual. 👍
 
II
God's plan for His people.

A. Covenant Theology states that since God has one people, the Church, He also has one plan in all the ages since the fall of Adam - to call out this one people into one body in both the Old Testament and the Old Testament ages.

B. Dispensationalism believes that since God has two peoples, Israel, and the Church, He also has two plans - a separate plan for each of these two distinct peoples. For Israel, His plan is the kingdom, which is yet to come, in light of Israel's rejection of the kingdom at Christ's coming. Concerning the Church, which is only present on earth during the Church age (which is a parenthetical period until God gets back to Israel and the kingdom), God's plan is to call out a heavenly people for Himself from the New Testament era.
III
Gods Plan of salvation

A. Covenant Theology believes that God has had one plan of salvation for His one people during the outworking of His one plan since the fall of Adam. That plan of salvation is a plan of grace, in that each covenant is an outworking of the everlasting covenant of grace. The content of faith of both testaments has been the Lord Jesus Christ, though obviously, the New Testament era has a deeper concept and understanding in its content of faith concerning Christ.

Such passages as John 5:39, where Christ commanded the Jews to search the Old Testament Scriptures because they testify of Him, and John 5:46 where Christ said Moses and the prophets wrote of Him, and Luke 24:27, where Christ began at Moses and the prpohets and expounded the Scriptures of things concerning Himself, convince the Covenant theologian that the Old Testament does have in its content the revelation of Christ, and therefore faith had for its content the person of Christ also. Theu to deny the faith of the Old Testament saints was faith in a Messiah is to make them completely ignorant of the interpretation of the Old Testament revelation which they had received. Thus Covenant theology holds to one plan of salvation for God's one people as He works out His one plan throughout history since the fall.


B. Dispensationalism has been in some controversy over the years as to whether it believes in one plan of salvation or two. All modern dispensationalists would argue for one plan of salvation (salvation by faith), yet some, like Charles Ryre, have argued for a salvation by faith, yet meaning by such a statement a salvation by faith in God, without any content of Christ.

The controversy over whether dispensationalism has held to two plans of salvation or one may well go back to statements made by early dispensationalists. The first edition of the Scofield Reference Bible stated: As a dispensation, grace begins with a death and resurection of Christ. The point of testing is no longer legal obedience at the condition of salvation, but acceptance or rejection of Christ.

Lewis Sperry Chafer appears either to have made some very unguarded and unexplained statements on the subject of salvation, or he truly believed in two plans of salvation., He wrote as follows:
With the call of Abraham and the giving of the law and all that has followed, there are two widely different standardized, divine provisions, whereby man, who is utterly fallen. might come into the favor of God.

Under grace the fruit of the Spirit is, which indicates the present possession of the blessings through pure grace; while under the kingdom the blessings shall be to such as merit it by their own works.

In this age, God is dealing with men on the ground of His grace as it is in Christ. His dealings with men in the coming age are based on a very different relationship. At that time, the king will rule with a rod of iron. There is no word of the cross or grace in the kingdom teachings.


Any view of two plans of salvation, however, would be strongly denied by modern dispensationalists. They too would argue for one plan of salvation, but note the modification of that one plan of salvation as mentioned above in the view of some such as C.C. Ryre.
 
IV
The place of eternal destiny for God's people

A. Covenant Theology believes that since God has one people and one plan for these people and one plan for salvation concerning the redemption of these people, that God also has one place in eternity for them. That place in eternity and for eternity will be in His presence for all those who make up the one body of Christ.

B. Dispensationalism has not been in agreement concerning the eternal state of the two peoples of God. Some dispensationalists would hold that the church will sit with Christ the King on His throne in the New Jerusalem as He rules over the nations of mankind, while Israel will continue as head of the nations of the earth. Thus the distinctiveness of the two peoples continuing throughout eternity is the conviction in one way or another of most dispensationalists.
 
IV
The place of eternal destiny for God's people

A. Covenant Theology believes that since God has one people and one plan for these people and one plan for salvation concerning the redemption of these people, that God also has one place in eternity for them. That place in eternity and for eternity will be in His presence for all those who make up the one body of Christ.

B. Dispensationalism has not been in agreement concerning the eternal state of the two peoples of God. Some dispensationalists would hold that the church will sit with Christ the King on His throne in the New Jerusalem as He rules over the nations of mankind, while Israel will continue as head of the nations of the earth. Thus the distinctiveness of the two peoples continuing throughout eternity is the conviction in one way or another of most dispensationalists.
V
The Birth of the Church

A. Covenant Theology holds that the Church existed prior to the New Testament era, even back to the Old Testament period, and included all the redeemed people of God since the fall of Adam. Certainly, this view would agree, that there are two testaments, but not two peoples of God. There are two different sets of ordinances for the two testaments for the local manifestation of the body of Christ, but there is still only one body. What took place on the day of Pentecost was not the birth of the Church as the body of Christ, but the empowerment of the New Testament manifestation of the body of Christ.

B. Dispensationalism believes that the Church was born on the day of Pentecost and that it did not exist before that point of time in history. The body of Christ is strictly New Testament and not to be found in the Old Testament. The Old Testament saints do not make up or are not part of the body of Christ.
 
…but the Bible uses the word “dispensation.” ?:unsure:
There are dispensations, (time periods in which certain things exist) but dividing the covenant of redemption into dispensations and using those dispensations as an interpretive tool as is done in dispensationalism does just that---the divides redemption and actually creates two peoples, Israel and Gentiles, and two means of redemption.

In Dispensationalism, God deals with the church, which does include Jew and Gentile believers, and national/ethnic/geopolitical Israel. He supposedly then removes this church up to heaven while he goes back and deals with national Israel by returning to the old form of worship and sacrifice. When this is finished, then is the fullness of time-or the completed work of Christ in destroying sin and death and bringing in the age to come as seen in Rev 21:1-6.

This is what I do not like about Dispensationalism. It is wrong and cannot be supported by Scripture. The "fullness of time" in the context is "when the time was right" Jesus came and when the time is right, all things will be fulfilled.
 
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Is the “fullness of the times” in Ephesians 1:10 different than the “fullness of the Gentiles be come in” in Romans 11:25?
Romans 11:25 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in."
It is only that the F of G is a part of the F of times.
 
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