Delivered From the Law

[Soyeong]

Committing adultery is not loving to a spouse,

The same is true for breaking all of God's other commands.

and we don't need a law to know that.

God's law defines what it means to love regardless of whether or not you think that you need to do that. If there was a different law that someone was not following, such as if someone were not keeping the 7th day holy, then they would need to be informed that that is not loving to God.

 

[Soyeong]

Why did you write that? I never said anything to that effect.

Sorry if I've misunderstood you.

My last post mentioned many verses regarding the blood of Christ and your response neglected everything I said, because you never mentioned anything about the blood of Christ. There is no conversation here.

I spoke about Titus 2:14, which is in regard to what Christ accomplished through the cross.

 

[prism]

Sorry if I've misunderstood you.

OK, for a while there I thought you were running off a humanistic religion that neglects the revelation found in the Old Testament and the New Testament... one of works.

I spoke about Titus 2:14, which is in regard to what Christ accomplished through the cross.

Titus 2:14 KJV
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Surely that was His purpose in redeeming us, and it's His blood that purifies us, not our good works.

 

[Eleanor]

The same is true for breaking all of God's other commands.


God's law defines what it means to love regardless of whether or not you think that you need to do that. If there was a different law that someone was not following, such as if someone were not keeping the 7th day holy, then they would need to be informed that that is not loving to God.

Love of self does not to be taught, and that is the standard.

 

[Hazelelponi]

If you are born again, you will be loving God and neighbor as self, whereby the law is fulfilled (Ro 13:8, 10), nothing else is needed, for love guarantees obedience.

He who loves has fulfilled the law (Ro 13:8).

Decided to jump into this thread.

There's some deeper meaning at play I would imagine and we can note it throughout society. Everyone has a different definition of what love is, and all claims to know God.

My definition of love is not the popular view, (not the Santa Claus version of love), my definition heaps burning coals on my enemies heads in order that God be praised and glorified forevermore.

Other people? Not so much...

But it's the truest and most pure form of loving ones enemies.

Then of course there's loving your neighbor, like - who on earth is your neighbor anyway? Do we pick them up from third world countries and dump them on poor and dying towns in the middle of the night in order to depress real wages and create additional hardship on citizens already living in hardship? (Just rhetorical)

Or are our neighbors those neighbors we see every day, who we might run into as we travel from one town to another as we conduct the business of life? (Again , rhetorical, anyone with the Holy Spirit in Truth already knows the answer)

Are we stepping over the hungry and starving dead neighbors God gave us to care for in the first place? (Again, rhetorical)

And then, what might it mean to love them?

I would dare to venture the word love is the most abused word in all of human history, when Christ showed us exactly what it means to love - it's to make sure the lost sheep of Israel come into the New Covenant in Christs blood and be reconciled to God through His Holy Spirit, and thereby, also reconciled to man

That's what love is to a Holy God, ultimately. And along the way, we do what we can to help our neighbors and those God enables us to help in a positive way, just whatever is good and righteous.

But yeah, for most actual love is hate, and actual hate is love, and such is the world we live in. When we say love I do think we ought to provide a definition for people, they don't get it .. same with neighbors and same with brothers and same with enemies, no one has the same definition, yet Christ defined it all.

 

[Eleanor]

Decided to jump into this thread.

Welcome! . . .I think I'd cut my throat if I had to post all that on an i-phone.

There's some deeper meaning at play I would imagine and we can note it throughout society. Everyone has a different definition of what love is, and all claims to know God.

Doesn't Scripture give the definition. . .love your neighbor as yourself; i.e., be committed to his well-being as you are committed to your own well-being?
And Scripture gives the example in the good Samaritan, where it is about service, not feelings, for the Jews despised the Samaritans.

My definition of love is not the popular view, (not the Santa Claus version of love), my definition heaps burning coals on my enemies heads in order that God be praised and glorified forevermore.
Other people? Not so much...

I think the NT question here would be how do you know they are not actually God's chosen who have not yet come into faith?

I'm not understanding why you would circumvent the Biblical command to love our neighbor as ourselves, as well as to love our enemies

But it's the truest and most pure form of loving ones enemies.
Then of course there's loving your neighbor, like - who on earth is your neighbor anyway? Do we pick them up from third world countries and dump them on poor and dying towns in the middle of the night in order to depress real wages and create additional hardship on citizens already living in hardship? (Just rhetorical)
Or are our neighbors those neighbors we see every day, who we might run into as we travel from one town to another as we conduct the business of life? (Again , rhetorical, anyone with the Holy Spirit in Truth already knows the answer)Are we stepping over the hungry and starving dead neighbors God gave us to care for in the first place? (Again, rhetorical)
And then, what might it mean to love them?

Stated above.

I would dare to venture the word love is the most abused word in all of human history, when Christ showed us exactly what it means to love - it's to make sure the lost sheep of Israel come into the New Covenant in Christs blood and be reconciled to God through His Holy Spirit, and thereby, also reconciled to man
That's what love is to a Holy God, ultimately. And along the way, we do what we can to help our neighbors and those God enables us to help in a positive way, just whatever is good and righteous.But yeah, for most actual love is hate, and actual hate is love, and such is the world we live in. When we say love I do think we ought to provide a definition for people, they don't get it .. same with neighbors and same with brothers and same with enemies, no one has the same definition, yet Christ defined it all.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Welcome! . . .I think I'd cut my throat if I had to post all that on an i-phone.

There's certainly times I want to... hahaha for me this is the only way to get online though. I have a laptop and a computer but I can't sit more than a little bit at a time, this way I can be physically more comfortable while perusing online.


When I said this here:

My definition of love is not the popular view, (not the Santa Claus version of love), my definition heaps burning coals on my enemies heads in order that God be praised and glorified forevermore. Other people? Not so much...

I believe you completely misunderstood me. For someone who knows Scripture well I just assumed you would automatically know my reference to Paul's words in Scripture when the Apostle quoted from the Proverbs in Romans 12:20

"To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.”

I have loved this since the first day I fully understood it's meaning.

The reason it simply makes me giggle is because I think a lot of Islam came from misunderstandings of Scripture - like for instance this Proverb I actually think sounds quite similar to Islamic descriptions of hell.

When I first heard this verse I was thinking that if this is a definition of Islamic hell, the preaching of Christ's life, death, and resurrection, the salvation of souls once lost but now found, the kindness and goodness and love of God exemplified in and through His people....

.... Then sign me up to be an Angel over hell! Hahaha

It's my own personal weirdness I guess but I giggle every time and it makes me happy. I just figured you would automatically understand the verse reference.

For me, I can't do much physically but at least in my mind this verse gives me wings even as I sit encompassed by His Wings.

I think the NT question here would be how do you know they are not actually God's chosen who have not yet come into faith?

I'm not understanding why you would circumvent the Biblical command to love our neighbor as ourselves, as well as to love our enemies

With the explanation of what I said from Scripture and personal perspective, would you like to revisit any portion of your response before I continue?

 

[Eleanor]

There's certainly times I want to... hahaha for me this is the only way to get online though. I have a laptop and a computer but I can't sit more than a little bit at a time, this way I can be physically more comfortable while perusing online.


When I said this here:



I believe you completely misunderstood me. For someone who knows Scripture well I just assumed you would automatically know my reference to Paul's words in Scripture when the Apostle quoted from the Proverbs in Romans 12:20

"To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.”

I have loved this since the first day I fully understood it's meaning.

The reason it simply makes me giggle is because I think a lot of Islam came from misunderstandings of Scripture - like for instance this Proverb I actually think sounds quite similar to Islamic descriptions of hell.

When I first heard this verse I was thinking that if this is a definition of Islamic hell, the preaching of Christ's life, death, and resurrection, the salvation of souls once lost but now found, the kindness and goodness and love of God exemplified in and through His people....

Then sign me up to be an Angel over hell! Hahaha

It's my own personal weirdness I guess but I giggle every time and it makes me happy. I just figured you would automatically understand.

Naw, it's your intelligence. . .

You're catching me not too far from retirement from this endeavor.

With the explanation of what I said from Scripture and personal perspective, would you like to revisit any portion of your response before I continue?

Well I need to change the part about your "circumventing," now that I understand what you mean.

 

[Hazelelponi]

You're catching me not too far from retirement from this endeavor.

I'm not retirement age yet, was born in '68, but I'm definitely feeling the years in ways I don't prefer ..

I'll be back later and resume the conversation. It's enjoyable. Love you sister, in Christ... God bless you and I hope your having a wonderful day.

 

[Eleanor]

I'm not retirement age yet, was born in '68, but I'm definitely feeling the years in ways I don't prefer ..

I'll be back later and resume the conversation. It's enjoyable. Love you sister, in Christ... God bless you and I hope your having a wonderful day.

I got a few decades on you.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Naw, it's your intelligence.

I'll be honest I don't know how to respond to compliments but I do thank you for the praise, though certainly I feel reasonably average.. Since we are on new footing after the mix up, I have gone ahead and tried to be more clear.

Firstly, thank you for the clarification and correction regarding the earlier phrasing. I'm grateful we’re aligning on Romans 12:20—“heap burning coals” (anthrakas pyros sōreuseis)—as an expression of love toward enemies in a distinctly biblical way. This directive, drawn from Proverbs 25:21–22, calls us to love as God commands, not as the world defines, with the aim of leading enemies either to repentance or to the vindication of God's justice. There’s no bypassing Matthew 5:44 here. Love for enemies, rightly ordered, is not weakness but obedience, always directed toward God’s glory.

The biblical order of love is unambiguous. Christ Himself sets the standard in Matthew 22:37–39: first, love for God with the entirety of one’s being (agapēseis Kurion ton Theon sou, cf. Deut. 6:5, ahav), then love for neighbor as oneself (Lev. 19:18, v’ahavta l’reakha kamokha). This is not a matter of sentiment but covenant obedience. Loving God means keeping His commandments (1 John 5:3, agapē tou Theou), including the Royal Law to love one’s neighbor (Jas. 2:8, agapēseis ton plēsion). Romans 13:8 affirms this—“love fulfills the law” (ho agapōn nomon peplērōken)—but the directionality is key: it begins with God and flows outward, not the reverse.

Regarding neighbors, the parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:25–37) rightly illustrates neighborly compassion (esplanchnisthē), but context matters. Neighbors are not abstract; they are those God places in our path—local, tangible, covenant-proximate. Gospel proclamation must come first (Mark 16:15, kēryxate to euaggelion), for reconciliation to God is the deepest expression of love (2 Cor. 5:18–19, katallagē). Physical care follows, not replaces, this priority (Jas. 2:15–16). To invert this—to neglect local, unsaved souls for distant causes—is not biblical love but worldly moralism dressed up in virtue.

Finally, love must be distinguished: the natural man’s “love” is at enmity with God (Rom. 8:7, echthra eis Theon). True love—agapē—prioritizes the household of faith (Gal. 6:10, oikeious tēs pisteōs) and our own families (1 Tim. 5:8, oikeiōn) before extending to the world. Enemies may yet be elect, like Saul of Tarsus (Acts 9:1–5), which is why kindness (Rom. 12:20) and prayerful witness (1 Pet. 2:12) are acts of faith in God’s justice (Ps. 89:14, tsedeq) and grace (Matt. 5:45, tous ponērous). Love and justice converge supremely at the cross (Rom. 3:26, dikaios). Though sin reigns through both imputation (Rom. 5:17) and personal failure (Rom. 5:12; Rom. 7:18–19), our obedience is accepted only through Christ’s righteousness (Rom. 5:18–19), as the Westminster Confession rightly asserts (16.5).

As for covenant, I hold to a unified Abrahamic covenant, fulfilled in Christ (Gen. 12, 15, 17; berit), and applied under the New Covenant with the law now written on our hearts (Jer. 31:33, torah). This covenantal structure shapes how we define and prioritize love.

So, do we differ in how love intersects with covenant theology, or in how we weigh law, grace, and proximity?

Let’s continue to sharpen one another as iron sharpens iron—for the glory of God alone.