Definite Atonement

[GeneZ]

Do you have anything to support any of this?

To begin with.... Point #1.


Moses and David could not apply for the following...
2 Corinthians 5:17

"So then if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things passed-away; behold, ​

new things have come-into-being." ​

The words KAINOS KTISIS – is translated "new creation." New creation refers to something new that never existed before.

David and Moses were OT believers. They preceded the Church age. They were not made to be the new creation in Christ.
They as believers were under new requirements, but for their being under the Law. The NT spiritual power was not there
as its granted the faithful church age Christians.

OT believers had to have their will submitted to being under Law.
While those lead of the Spirit (the Church) are no longer under the Law.

​

"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." Galatians 6:15​

The reason we no longer need to be under the Law is because the Holy Spirit has now taken up permanent residence in our body.
The Spirit will enable us to be transformed in His image as long as we walk in the Spirit.

Moses and David NEVER had that ability for transformation into His image imparted by the Spirit in their salvation.
They remained under the Law. They never became the New Creation in Christ! They never were baptized by the Spirit into the Body of Christ!

"For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, ​

whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit." 1 Corinthians 12:13​

Moses and David were both Jews! Not the New Creation.

"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, ​

for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28​

grace and peace ................

 

[Eleanor]

And I think the historical question is a decoy from the real issue in relation to God’s predetermining the Elect and non-elect. That is the real point of contention in the debate; If I am predestined one way or the other, then my choosing is irrelevant whether I’m capable of choosing or not.

Based on the assumption that relevance to me matters.

 

[donadams]

All universal

Lk 2:11 savior for all people

Jn 1:29 lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Thks

 

[Mr GLee]

To begin with.... Point #1.


Moses and David could not apply for the following...
2 Corinthians 5:17

"So then if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things passed-away; behold, ​

new things have come-into-being." ​

The words KAINOS KTISIS – is translated "new creation." New creation refers to something new that never existed before.

David and Moses were OT believers. They preceded the Church age. They were not made to be the new creation in Christ.
They as believers were under new requirements, but for their being under the Law. The NT spiritual power was not there
as its granted the faithful church age Christians.

OT believers had to have their will submitted to being under Law.
While those lead of the Spirit (the Church) are no longer under the Law.

​

"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." Galatians 6:15​

The reason we no longer need to be under the Law is because the Holy Spirit has now taken up permanent residence in our body.
The Spirit will enable us to be transformed in His image as long as we walk in the Spirit.

Moses and David NEVER had that ability for transformation into His image imparted by the Spirit in their salvation.
They remained under the Law. They never became the New Creation in Christ! They never were baptized by the Spirit into the Body of Christ!

"For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, ​

whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit." 1 Corinthians 12:13​

Moses and David were both Jews! Not the New Creation.

"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, ​

for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28​

.

As sons of God (Christians ) we are not yet that which will be. What you offered speaks of what will be when we receive our new incorruptible bodies Then a totally new creature .Not male nor female, neither Jew nor Gentile

I would offer Christ our husband was pursuit of a bride the reason for the creation. Not beginning in the new testament Christ our husband desired and created a wife for himself Using two people Adam and Eve as if one.

Abel the first person to the born again by Spirit of Christ as a member of the bride. First listed Martyr

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Adam and Eve the smallest denomination( Church) a child three. The Family God

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

 

[GeneZ]

As sons of God (Christians ) we are not yet that which will be. What you offered speaks of what will be when we receive our new incorruptible bodies Then a totally new creature .Not male nor female, neither Jew nor Gentile

I would offer Christ our husband was pursuit of a bride the reason for the creation. Not beginning in the new testament Christ our husband desired and created a wife for himself Using two people Adam and Eve as if one.

Abel the first person to the born again by Spirit of Christ as a member of the bride. First listed Martyr

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Adam and Eve the smallest denomination( Church) a child three. The Family God

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

. .whatever.... You totally miss the point and just spew some subjective thinking sprinkled with some verses.

It don't work.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

All universal.

Lk 2:11 savior for all people

Jn 1:29 lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Thks

John 1:29 and 1 John 2:2 are not universal in the sense of "every single person" but rather in the sense of "not just the Jews" (cf. Gal 2:9). For example, the first passage says that Christ is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, not just Jews but also Gentiles. The second passage says that Christ is the atoning sacrifice not only for our sins (the Jews) but also for the whole world (Gentiles too).

I am not sure why Luke 2:11 was included, for it says, "Today your Savior is born in the city of David. He is Christ the Lord." The angel said this some shepherds who were "keeping watch over their flock by night" (as worded in the King James Version, burned forever into my memory thanks to the 1965 holiday classic A Charlie Brown Christmas).

 

[Mr GLee]

. .whatever.... You totally miss the point and just spew some subjective thinking sprinkled with some verses.

It don't work.

No such thing as a church age The bride of Christ began in Genesis with Able the apostle prophet .Just as Moses and David members of the chaste virgin bride

The first cetury reformation restored the Bride of Christ

 

[GeneZ]

No such thing as a church age The bride of Christ began in Genesis with Able the apostle prophet .Just as Moses and David members of the chaste virgin bride

The first cetury reformation restored the Bride of Christ

Bow down slave to Dominion theology.....

I have much better things to do.

 

[Mr GLee]

Bow down slave to Dominion theology.....

I have much better things to do.

Dominion theology ????

 

[Eleanor]

No such thing as a church age The bride of Christ began in Genesis with Able the apostle prophet .Just as Moses and David members of the chaste virgin bride

The first cetury reformation restored the Bride of Christ

The one people of God, the one olive tree (Ro 11) were called Israel in the OT, and are called the church in the NT.

 

[GeneZ]

Dominion theology ????

It teaches what you profess.

 

[Mr GLee]

It teaches what you profess.

Thanks new one to me.

Not ever close. What you offer was over when mankind sinned. They lost dominion giving it over to the father of lies the god of this world. system

Abel the apostle, prophet. martyr is the first member of the chaste virgin bride of Christ. His blood like the blood of all saints cries out for the promise of new incorruptible body as his wife

The church that began with Abel.

Abel the second born is used to represent our second birth, through the seed Christ. The spiritual was used to represent the bride .It was passed down from generation to the next generation ending with the birth of Jesus, the Son of man.

The the church as the wife of Christ was restored during the the first century reformation.

Cain the first born saw no value in the unseen things of God . like Onan that spilled the seed or Esau seeing no value the unseen things of God ,Esau sold his first born birth rite for a cup of hairy goat soup

 

[Josheb]

Dominion theology ????

Dominion theology comes from the "dominion mandate," or "cultural mandate" found in Genesis 1:28.

Genesis 1:28 KJV
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

Genesis 1:28 ESV
And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

Genesis 1:28 NAS
God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

This is a command that God reiterated in various wording throughout the Bible (see Gen. 9:1), one the scriptures do not later recant or negate. The "great commission" is considered by dominionists to be an extension of the dominion mandate. Simply put, God's people are supposed to multiply and cover the earth, making what was desolate outside of Eden into fertile and populated or, in the context of the great commission, godly.

Technically, all Christians should be dominionists, just as they should all be Christological preterists. There are varieties of dominionism and in the last half-century or so these varieties have increased. There is, for example, the "Seven Mountains" dominionism and there is the Reconstructionist view of dominionism, like that found at American Vision. It is reported Ted Cruz is a seven-mountainist. The Reconstructionists believe a Christian state must be establish and that achievement will usher in the return of Christ. They are ardent postmillennialists. The point being, Dominionism is not monolithic and, in its essence, it is firmly rooted in scripture, the first blessing and command God gave humanity. For the record, the Reconstructionists do not espouse usurpation of society by means of the flesh. They believe God will bring about the necessary changes through the Holy Spirit and the preaching of the gospel. Likewise, Christians like Francis Schaeffer and Bill Bright are often cited as domininists but that is a mislabeling. Both espoused the spread of the gospel with the expected result of world change, but they were not saying Christians and Christians alone should be running America or the entire world.

A lot of people disdain it and unjustly criticize it because of the extreme views of some. There is, after all, absolutely nothing wrong or unbiblical about Christians having influence in education, religion, family, business, government and the military, arts and entertainment, and media. We have been observing and experiencing the loss of the Judeo-Christian worldview in all those areas, and the adverse consequences thereof.

I am a dominionist, but I am not a Reconstructionist. I think every Christian should read the dominionists, including the Recons, because they generally exegete scripture very well and often apply it justly (not always, not often). Spend amonth reading the AV articles and see what you think.

 

[GeneZ]

Thanks new one to me.

Not ever close. What you offer was over when mankind sinned. They lost dominion giving it over to the father of lies the god of this world. system

Abel the apostle, prophet. martyr is the first member of the chaste virgin bride of Christ. His blood like the blood of all saints cries out for the promise of new incorruptible body as his wife

The church that began with Abel.

Abel the second born is used to represent our second birth, through the seed Christ. The spiritual was used to represent the bride .It was passed down from generation to the next generation ending with the birth of Jesus, the Son of man.

The the church as the wife of Christ was restored during the the first century reformation.

Cain the first born saw no value in the unseen things of God . like Onan that spilled the seed or Esau seeing no value the unseen things of God ,Esau sold his first born birth rite for a cup of hairy goat soup

Enjoy your fantasy thinking.....

Nice to have met you.

 

[Mr GLee]

Enjoy your fantasy thinking.....

Nice to have met you.

Thanks for sharing yours LOL

I would think It should be easy to prove . Was Abel the prophet, apostle and martyr like Timothy a member of Christ ,the husband as his chaste virgin bride ?

Paul the surrogate mother informs

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

 

[GeneZ]

Thanks for sharing yours LOL

I would think It should be easy to prove . Was Abel the prophet, apostle and martyr like Timothy a member of Christ ,the husband as his chaste virgin bride ?

Paul the surrogate mother informs

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Creative writing class 101 is down the hall. The room is marked on your left.
Starts in five minutes. Better hurry.

 

[GeneZ]

Thanks for sharing yours LOL

I would think It should be easy to prove . Was Abel the prophet, apostle and martyr like Timothy a member of Christ ,the husband as his chaste virgin bride ?

Paul the surrogate mother informs

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

If Abel were a prophet he would have known better and not handed Cain his knife.

 

[brightfame52]

The truth of limited atonement is vital to the Christian Gospel, there's no Gospel without it. See 1 Cor 15:3. It refers specifically to the Death of Christ on the Cross, which death fully satisfied the law and justice of God for not all human beings but only for a certain group, the elect of God, Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.

Now let's get one thing understood, when i speak of limited atonement, i don't mean by any means that Christ atoning death is limited in its power, but that its limited in that it doesn't cover or apply to everyone, but only applies to and covers the elect or chosen of God or the Church of God in Christ, or Gods Sheep.

 

[brightfame52]

Limited atonement is taught plainly in scripture !

Even though the natural man will attempt to explain away the truth of God as to who Christ specifically came to saved through His blood, yet the testimony of God is true and all men liars.

That Christs death is limited to only a certain segment of men is seen here , a clear statement limiting the recipients of His Death, the Angelic heavenly testimony here Matt 1:20-21

20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.


21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

His People here is another way of saying His Elect/Sheep !

 

[brightfame52]

Another passage of scripture that evidences the range of the death of Christ Jn 10:11,15

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.


Now Christ Sheep and His People are One and the same. Lets look at a Psalm for proof Ps 100:3

3 Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

And since scripture evidences that some of His Sheep are non jews/gentiles by Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep[gentiles] I have, which are not of this[jewish] fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Then its spiritually logical that His People in Matt 1:21 are not all of the jewish fold but also from among the gentile fold. Thats what James meant here Acts 15:14

14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.