Conception of Baby Jesus in the womb of Mary

[David Lamb]

Joseph is the biological father according to the genealogy .There is no reason to think other wise .

Immaculate conception a oral tradition of the Catholic handed down from the unbelieving Israel. They demanded a queen mother his and hers gods (patron saints )sane one called Mary

Mathew 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ

.

But that doesn't mean that Joseph was the biological father of Jesus. When Mary asked the angel Gabriel how she could have a son, since she had not had physical relations with a man, the answer was:

“And the angel answered and said to her, "[The] Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.” (Lu 1:35 NKJV)

Of course, His fellow countrymen thought Joseph was His biological father:

“Now Jesus Himself began [His ministry at] about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) [the] son of Joseph, [the son] of Heli,” (Lu 3:23 NKJV)

Jesus said over and over that His Father is God. The first time we know of from the bible is this:

“48 So when they saw Him, they were amazed; and His mother said to Him, "Son, why have You done this to us? Look, Your father and I have sought You anxiously." 49 And He said to them, "Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father’s business?"” (Lu 2:48-49 NKJV)

Mary said "your father and I", meaning Joseph and herself., in spite of what Gabriel had told her When Jesus said, "My Father's business", he wasn't talking about Joseph's carpentry, but God's business.

Incidentally, when Roman Catholics talk about the Immaculate Conception, they mean the conception of Mary, not Jesus.

 

[Mr GLee]

But that doesn't mean that Joseph was the biological father of Jesus. When Mary asked the angel Gabriel how she could have a son, since she had not had physical relations with a man, the answer was:

“And the angel answered and said to her, "[The] Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.” (Lu 1:35 NKJV)

Of course, His fellow countrymen thought Joseph was His biological father:

“Now Jesus Himself began [His ministry at] about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) [the] son of Joseph, [the son] of Heli,” (Lu 3:23 NKJV)

Jesus said over and over that His Father is God. The first time we know of from the bible is this:

“48 So when they saw Him, they were amazed; and His mother said to Him, "Son, why have You done this to us? Look, Your father and I have sought You anxiously." 49 And He said to them, "Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father’s business?"” (Lu 2:48-49 NKJV)

Mary said "your father and I", meaning Joseph and herself., in spite of what Gabriel had told her When Jesus said, "My Father's business", he wasn't talking about Joseph's carpentry, but God's business.

Incidentally, when Roman Catholics talk about the Immaculate Conception, they mean the conception of Mary, not Jesus.

Hi Thanks

Yes thier focus is on Mary our sister in the Lord. Blessed by the mercy of our father. Their Queen of heaven . It queenship was passed down as a law of the fathers oral traditons of dying mankind from the Pharisee with Sadaucesss .his and hers gods called today patron saints (3,500 and rising)

Both births. Born of woman as daughters of men and born of God as sons of God, two different births . One earthly temporal and one eternally heavenly unseen

Mathew 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ

Does not say whom was born the son of God the second birth . the blessing or power the second,

The temporal seed of David was passed on to Josef. . the DNA of the Son of man, Jesus dying mankind.

I would think when the father gave words to his prophet Jesus the Son of man and Jesus prophesied declaring the powerful will of the father as a loving commandment "a man must be born again from above marvel not but rather believe the prophecy .

In that way how they did get together. . whether they did and were forgiven over shadowed by mercy it is not the key or purpose .The miracle is in the rebirth.

Jesus said to Nicodenmus a sign and wonders seeker The unseen Lord .Lovingly commanding Nick. Marvel not after Satan the king of lying signs to wonder, wonder, wonder after. but rather believe prophecy the living word.

 

[CrowCross]

Jesus the Son of man like all born agin believers was empowered by the Spirit of Christ just like any man living in dying flesh .

Not quite.
Jesus the Son of man, the Son of God...IS THE Spirit of Christ. Jesus wasn't some man who just happened to be empowered by the Spirit of Christ.

 

[fastfredy0]

If only Eve sinned...would we still need a redeemer?

LOL... same thought entered my mind. These 'what if' scenarios are interesting but things always go by God's plan so this is just academic mental exercises that can be entertaining.

Analogies tend to break down.

True ... but I like to keep it simple.
Perhaps God uses analogies with us as He is too complex to understand any other way.
We cannot speak of God in univocal language, for the one infinite Creator is in a different category from everything else.

 

[CrowCross]

LOL... same thought entered my mind. These 'what if' scenarios are interesting but things always go by God's plan so this is just academic mental exercises that can be entertaining.

I agree they can be exercises and entertaining. What they do do is force one to look at scripture and see if their scenario holds up. Sometimes the answer is "I don't know" as the scripture is silent on some topics.

True ... but I like to keep it simple.
Perhaps God uses analogies with us as He is too complex to understand any other way.
We cannot speak of God in univocal language, for the one infinite Creator is in a different category from everything else.

Isaiah 55:9 agrees....For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

 

[Mr GLee]

Not quite.
Jesus the Son of man, the Son of God...IS THE Spirit of Christ. Jesus wasn't some man who just happened to be empowered by the Spirit of Christ.

He had the Spirit of the father working in him .it was not of his own self .God is not a man

 

[CrowCross]

He had the Spirit of the father working in him .it was not of his own self .God is not a man

The Word became flesh. The bible contradicts your beliefs.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
1) Jesus was designated, and scheduled, to die on the cross before any of the
days of creation began (1Pet 1:18-21 & Rev 13:8) in other words: he was
meant to be Eve's maternal descendant per Gen 3:15 which says:

"I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring
and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."

2) Jesus was born on track for David's throne (Luke 1:32) in other words: he
was meant to be Judah's paternal descendant per Gen 49:10 which says:

"The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between
his feet"

3) In order to take David's throne, Jesus had to be one of the king's paternal
descendants per Ps 132:11 which says:

"The Lord has sworn in truth unto David; and He will not turn from it: "Of
the fruit of your body will I set upon your throne"

The New Testament verifies Jesus satisfied the paternal requirement.

● Acts 2:29-30 . . Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the
patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us
unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn
with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he
would raise up Christ to sit on his throne.

● Rom 1:3 . . . His son; descended from David according to the flesh

FAQ: Did Jesus have God's blood in his body?

REPLY: According to Lev 17:11, the life of the flesh is in the blood. Well
then, in order for Jesus to be David's bona fides paternal descendant, he had
to have David's blood in his body.

FAQ: From whence did Jesus get a Y chromosome for his male gender?

REPLY: In the beginning, Eve's entire body-- inside and out, front to back,
top to bottom, and side to side --was constructed with material taken from
Adam's body (Gen 2:21-22) So if God could construct an entire woman
from material taken from a man's body, then it shouldn't be too difficult for
Him to construct a teensy little chromosome from a woman's body.

The beauty of it is that a Y chromosome constructed with material taken
from Mary's body wouldn't be an alien substance created ex nihilo; but
would be 100% natural, and easily traceable all the way back to Eve, and
from thence to the very dust that was used to construct Adam's body.

FAQ: Was Jesus his mother's biological child or her surrogate child?

REPLY: The angel predicted Mary would conceive Jesus in her own womb;
which could only be done if her own ovum was involved. And besides, Jesus
needed a biological connection to David; which of course fell to his mom
seeing as how Mary hadn't slept with anybody yet. In other words: Mary had
to journey to Bethlehem for the registration because she and David were
related.
_

 

[LeviR]

Mr GLee said:
He had the Spirit of the father working in him .it was not of his own self .God is not a man

The Word became flesh. The bible contradicts your beliefs.

What Mr Glee said is what Jesus said.
He was given the Spirit without measure. The works he did were not his own. He could do nothing of himself. God was in Christ.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
FAQ: What is a theophany?

REPLY: In a nutshell; a theophany is a visible appearance of the supreme
being in a human form.

FAQ: God is a man?

REPLY: Theophanies are not, nor have they ever been, the supreme being in
person. Nobody has ever seen the supreme being in person, nor has anyone
ever heard the supreme being's voice in person. In point of fact, the
supreme being abides in solitude-- secluded from the eyes of man by an
illumination that nobody can approach, nobody has ever seen, nor can see.

* According to Ex 33:20, theophanies can be thought of as the supreme
being in safe mode.

FAQ: Is Jesus a theophany?

REPLY: Yes; and a very unique one at that. All the Old Testament's
theophanies were pop-ups, viz: they were hominids, but they weren't
h.sapiens, whereas the Word's theophany came to us with a genealogy
certifying him as one of Adam's paternal descendants, viz: the Word's
theophany is one of us, i.e. a fellow man.

FAQ: Well, if the Word's theophany is really and truly a fellow man, then why
do we have to revere him as a deity? Isn't that a gross violation of the very
first of the Ten Commandments?

REPLY: The Word's theophany exists as a human being and a divine being
simultaneously. Jacob and all those guys back there understood the
mechanics of that sort of thing, although I honestly don't know how they
ever got used to it. For example when Samson's dad Manoah realized he had
been dealing with a theophany, he got really scared. (Judg 13:22)
_

 

[Mr GLee]

The Word became flesh. The bible contradicts your beliefs.

When he say the Livings word "let there be flesh" then the witness of his word comes as evidence of the power

God pronounces words that take form "let there be". He is not a word that has no direction or power.

 

[Mr GLee]

REPLY: In a nutshell; a theophany is a visible appearance of the supreme
being in a human form.

God remains invisible as a source of His faith or power that he works in us. No form could be used to compare.

God is not a man

Theophany is a visible appearance of dying mankind used in parables

Moses (old testament) and Elias (new ) used together to represent the living word .

Mathew 17:3-4 : , behold, there appeared unto them Moses and with him and Elias talking with him.. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for

Peter misunderstood the vision and promoted reincarnation.

 

[Josheb]

I asked this in another thread...
Was Jesus, God come in the flesh.....a conception of Godly sperm and Mary's egg...or a pure fully man and fully God zygote placed into Marys womb?

I do not believe he was a product of an ovum of Mary's. The Greek for "only begotten" is "monogene", which is transliterally mono=one or single and gene = origin or source. Jesus is, therefore God one-source- or single origin son. His origin cannot then be the Spirit and someone/something else. It cannot be the Spirit and a human ovum. That would make him or diogene. Some dispute this because of the Genesis 3 reference asserting the anointed one would be the "seed of a woman," but Mary being only a vessel of the logos of God to be made flesh still qualifies her as a seed bearer. She doesn't have to contribute an ovum for him to be her "seed," or sowing, or descendant (Heb = zaraka). There is a host of scripture supporting the solely-divine source position, ranging from the precluding condition of humanity's sinful flesh to Jesus' (ontological) sinlessness and his incarnation being a product of divine will (not that of the flesh) and his pre-existence.

 

[Josheb]

Joseph is the biological father according to the genealogy. There is no reason to think other wise .

There is plenty of reason to think otherwise.

Matthew 1:25 states, "And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife, but knew her not until she gave birth to a Son; and he named Him Jesus." Furthermore, Joseph and Mary were betrothed but not married when she became pregnant. If the two of them had had sex, then that act would have violated the Law and the laws of God (several of them) and rendered them both sinful specifically pertaining to the birth of Jesus and made Jesus an illegitimate child. Furthermore, the text of John 1 implies Jesus is not the product of blood, the will of the flesh, or the will of man.

 

[CrowCross]

I do not believe he was a product of an ovum of Mary's. The Greek for "only begotten" is "monogene", which is transliterally mono=one or single and gene = origin or source. Jesus is, therefore God one-source- or single origin son. His origin cannot then be the Spirit and someone/something else. It cannot be the Spirit and a human ovum. That would make him or diogene. Some dispute this because of the Genesis 3 reference asserting the anointed one would be the "seed of a woman," but Mary being only a vessel of the logos of God to be made flesh still qualifies her as a seed bearer. She doesn't have to contribute an ovum for him to be her "seed," or sowing, or descendant (Heb = zaraka). There is a host of scripture supporting the solely-divine source position, ranging from the precluding condition of humanity's sinful flesh to Jesus' (ontological) sinlessness and his incarnation being a product of divine will (not that of the flesh) and his pre-existence.

You're going with ....God placed a zygote into Marys womb.

 

[Mr GLee]

There is plenty of reason to think otherwise.

Matthew 1:25 states, "And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife, but knew her not until she gave birth to a Son; and he named Him Jesus." Furthermore, Joseph and Mary were betrothed but not married when she became pregnant. If the two of them had had sex, then that act would have violated the Law and the laws of God (several of them) and rendered them both sinful specifically pertaining to the birth of Jesus and made Jesus an illegitimate child. Furthermore, the text of John 1 implies Jesus is not the product of blood, the will of the flesh, or the will of man.

Thanks, remember the flesh of the Son of man Jesus profits for nothing ,zero .The law of faith

The miracle is in rebirth the unseen Spirit of Christ faithfully working in Jesus. Jesus said Marvel not.

I am not saying a birth record not necessary. I do say it could not profit

Human sex is not the object .He does use it to show he is not served by human hands passing down the seed to all manners of sinners .Like Rehab the prostitutes' or Tamar like that of humble Mary

Mathew 1:25 Furthermore, Joseph and Mary were betrothed (engaged) but not married when she became pregnant.

She gave birth before she was married Three is needed to install a Queen of heaven .fleshy birth.

Exalting venerating our blessed sister in the Lord Mary . .blasphemy

Matthew 1:24-25 Amplified Bible2 Then Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and he took Mary [to his home] as his wife, 25 but he kept her a virgin (unmarried) until she had given birth to a Son [her firstborn child]; and he named Him Jesus (The Lord is salvation)

 

[Carbon]

Agreed ... and the properties that we observe of material in nature only perform as we observe (call it science) due to God causing the material to consistently perform in the way it does.
John 1:3 All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being... Romans 11:36 For from Him [all things originate] and through Him [all things live and exist] and to Him are all things [directed]. To Him be glory and honor forever! Amen. .... and I suggest that God causes the things that come into being to work continually as they do by His constant will and if God were to somehow not exist then: Job 34:14 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath; 15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

I like the analogy that God made Himself a suit (Jesus) and wears the suit and the suit has human properties that occasionally become supernatural like walking of water due to the suit's owner ... and this suit is a minor adornment of God who has many other things going on like being omnipresent.
... the smart guys like @Carbon and @makesends use fancy theological words like the 'hypostatic union"... I just call it God wearing a "suit".

Here is some food for thought. Ice cream. Yep.

 

[Josheb]

Thanks, remember the flesh of the Son of man Jesus profits for nothing ,zero .The law of faith

Then Joseph cannot be the biological father according to the genealogy. Perhaps the earlier statement should be amended to say he is the adoptive father, according to the genealogy.

 

[Josheb]

You're going with ....God placed a zygote into Marys womb.

Perhaps, although I am not inclined to impose human biology on the incarnation. What I know is that Jesus is monogene, not diagene. I also know Jesus pre-existed creation as God and there was nothing sinful in him, including half of his chromosomal/genetic constitution (which would be the case if Mary had contributed an ovum, regardless of the RCC's position to the contrary). God made the first adam out of dust of the earth (dirt). He can make humans out of rocks. I see no necessity in scripture requiring God to use ordinary human biology to make anyone, but I do not discount the possibility the logos was made a zygote in Mary's womb, either.

 

[Mr GLee]

Then Joseph cannot be the biological father according to the genealogy. Perhaps the earlier statement should be amended to say he is the adoptive father, according to the genealogy.

Hi I would offer. .Christ alone is the adopting Holy Father .Call no man on earth Holy Father .

Virgin, not married.

Mary was pregnant before she was married. She stayed a virgin widow (un married) until after.

Satan would make it after the lust of flesh, lust of the eye . .human sex. Human family false pride ..

Believer as new creatures. . the family that can call out Abba Holy Father . . Call no man on earth Father.

God uses the imperfect bride to reveal the cleansing power of the water of the word the gospel of salvation . The focus is not a dying flesh but a new born again spirit that desires to do the will of the Father


Mathew 1:18 GNTThis was how the birth of Jesus Christ took place. His mother Mary was engaged to Joseph, but before they were married, she found out that she was going to have a baby by the Holy Spirit. . . . . . . (by the will of God) .Children gifts from the breath of the Lord.

Mathew 1:25 Furthermore, Joseph and Mary were betrothed (engaged) but not married when she became pregnant.

She gave birth before she was married Three a trinity is needed to install a Queen Mary of heaven .fleshy birth.

Exalting, venerating our blessed sister in the Lord Mary . .blasphemy

Luke 1:27 King James To a virgin (unmarried) espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's (un married) name was Mary.