Coming Against Reformed Theology

[makesends]

Truth is from God not men, Christ taught the apostles in person theee years and commanded them to teach what He revealed and they never taught the sola’s!

scripture never says faith alone, except James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

NOT BY FAITH ALONE!

The five sola’s REJECT the necessity of baptismal regeneration by water AND the Spirit!!! Jn 3:5 Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19 acts 2:38-39 acts 22-16
1 cor 12:12 gal 3:27 1 pet 3:20-21

The five Protestant sola’s reject the father and the Holy Spirit!
And the most blessed trinity!

The five Protestant sola’s violate the law of non-contradiction:

If you accept the sola of the Bible alone you must know that scripture upholds the authority of the church and the church explicitly condemned “faith alone”!

Luther quote: a man is justified by “faith alone” but that faith is not alone!

Then it’s not “faith alone”!
It cannot be both!
Total contradiction:


Faith Alone:

Truth / doctrine Jn 14:6
Sacrifice / sacraments Jn 1:16-17 Jn 1:29
Christ is in His person is our salvation Lk 2:30

How can it be “faith alone” Christ is not only a doctrine or set of beliefs but He is our Passover sacrifice and He is our salvation, His person, Lk 2:30 I have seen my Salvation!
We must have union with Christ by faith and baptism.

“Faith alone” condemned by sacred scripture!

Deut 6:4 love of God
Matt 19:17 commandments
Matt 16:25 lose you’re life / rev 12:11
Matt 28:19 faith & baptism
Matt 24:13 endure
Mk 16:16 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 water & the spirit
Jn 15:4 abide in Christ
acts 2:38-39 repentance & baptism
acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
acts 22:16 name of the Lord & baptism
rom 10:10 faith & confession
1 cor 13:2 faith & charity
1 cor 13:13 faith, hope, & charity
1 cor 16:22 love of Jesus Christ
Phil 1:29 faith and suffering rom 8:17 2 Timothy 2:12
1 thes 1:3 faith, love, patience / 2 thes 1:4 / 1 Tim 6:11 /
James 2:24 faith & works
Heb 6:12 faith & patience / rev 13:10
Rev 2:19 works, charity, service, faith, patience
Rev 12:17 testimony of Jesus & commandments
Rev 14:12 commandments & patience

Rev 12:11 over cane by the blood of the Lamb not by “faith alone”

Three things are eternal! 1 cor 13:13

Faith:
Hope:
Charity:

1 cor 13:2 even all faith without charity (Deut 6:4) avails nothing!

NOTHING!

“Faith alone” is a false gospel!

Grace alone:

Mk 16:16 faith and baptism!
Jn 3:5 water and the spirit! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 the promise of the father, sacred oath is a sacrament!

Not grace alone but, grace thru baptism of water and the spirit, and a new heart full of love of God!

Matt 5:7 merciful receive mercy
Lk 7:47 forgiven by love
1 pet 4:8 charity covers sins
Jn 20:21-23 sins forgiven

Acts 22:15 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Faith alone in Christ alone thru grace alone without “charity” avails nothing! 1 cor 13:2

Christ alone:

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 4:24
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Not Christ alone must also believe on the Father who sent Christ!
Scripture alone: Matt 16:18-19 mark 16:14-16 Matt 5:14 Matt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Jn 20:21-23 acts 1:8 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 1 Tim 3:15 all oppose scripture alone!


Glory to God alone:

Christ received Glory

John 17:1
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

Ephesians 3:16
That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;


Christians receive glory:
1 cor 2:7
rom 8:30
2 thes 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints…
2 thes 2:14
1 pet 1:7 praise and honour and glory
1 pet 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
1 pet 5:10
Romans 2:10
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Jn 17:22 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Now if one sola be false they all be false! Amen!

Strawman.

By now you know better, too. Just for starters, "faith alone" does not mean that faith IS alone, but that one is not saved by works.

 

[donadams]

@donadams

To move the thread back to the actual thrust and intent of the OP and away from the unsubstantiated claims of the RCC-----

Reformed theology is covenant theology. That is a very intensive and extensive conversation all in itself and should have its own thread. Much of what comes against Reformed theology is dispensationalist, though not all dispensationalist are adherents of the TULIP. I point this out because it is in part a dispensationalist view of interpreting scripture, that causes much of the objection to Reformed theology. It does this by isolating or separating, the covenant of redemption from the whole of scripture. It has two covenants---the Sinai Covenant and the New Covenant (covenant of grace as it is called) as unrelated. Whereas all covenants that God enters into with humanity are covenants of grace. Fallen, sinful man deserves nothing from God, and certainly not a personal relationship----which is what a covenant is.

The covenant of redemption began with Adam and Eve, when God cursed the serpent with a promise that the seed of a woman would crush his heel. A covenant of grace also existed in Eden with Adam and Eve for there, walked in the Garden with them. And this covenant was not only with Adam and Eve, but with all of creation itself. Adam was the mediator of that covenant. The caretaker of all of creation.

Noah was mediator of the covenant of redemption, and God's covenant with Adam as steward over creation renewed, His covenant with creation renewed, after the judgement of the flood. And in Noah, the promised Seed preserved. But Noah and his family were still fallen creatures, awaiting the birth of the arrival of the Seed.

Moses was mediator of the Sinai covenant with Israel from whom this Seed would come. God preserves His relationship with humanity rather than destroying all of humanity as we deserve. Covenant of grace within the Noahic covenant, of grace within the Sinai covenant, covenant of grace fulfilled in Christ and Christ as its mediator. God's covenant with all of creation, including the animals, awaits His second appearance for completion. He does all this through redeeming a people for Himself, which is astonishing.

This is the view of the Bible, and this is the view of Reformed theology. There is no room for man to become the determining factor in the efficacy of this work of grace by God in Christ. None.

No room?

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Conditional IF!

 

[donadams]

A two sided coin!

On God’s side His promises are absolute and God will always be faithful!

2 Tim 2:13


Our side of the coin has an if!
A big “if”!

Rom 11:22
Col 1:21-23
Col 2-5
Heb 12:22-25
Heb 6:4-9
Heb 3:4-6
Jn 2:24-25
2 Tim 2:11-13
Rom 8:17
Matt 28:20
Acts 1:2
Jn 15:4
Mk 13:13
Matt 24:14

We still have free will and can choose (volition) to reject Christ and the faith and renounce our baptism

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Thks

 

[donadams]

Strawman.

By now you know better, too. Just for starters, "faith alone" does not mean that faith IS alone, but that one is not saved by works.

Alone don’t mean alone?

Can’t be both!

 

[donadams]

Strawman.

By now you know better, too. Just for starters, "faith alone" does not mean that faith IS alone, but that one is not saved by works.

Is walking works?
Is the narrow road works?

A big “if”!

Rom 11:22
Col 1:21-23
Col 2-5
Heb 12:22-25
Heb 6:4-9
Heb 3:4-6
Jn 2:24-25
2 Tim 2:11-13
Rom 8:17
Matt 28:20
Acts 1:2
Jn 15:4
Mk 13:13
Matt 24:14

We still have free will and can choose (volition) to reject Christ and the faith and renounce our baptism

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

 

[Arial]

No room?

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Conditional IF!

No room.

Paul is speaking to those who are already believers. They are the ones who have the Spirit----whom the Spirit has rebirthed into the kingdom according to John 3. You read those passages as conditions for salvation, whereas if an understanding of who God is and an understanding of who man is in relation to the One who made us, (if one had also an understanding of John 3) they would know that it is all of the Spirit (God) with no contribution of man. Man has nothing to contribute. Not one single thing. It is all the grace of God. We are to live in obedience to our calling as His children and that is what Paul is addressing.

 

[Arial]

We still have free will and can choose (volition) to reject Christ and the faith and renounce our baptism

We never had a will that was free. We have always been subject to God. We have never been free to disobey Him. Don't confuse the fact that we have a will because we were created with one, and freely make choices, with our will being free. If we are an enmity with God in our very nature due to the fall, we have no desire to choose Christ and so we will not, and cannot. We cannot even understand the things of God. The cross is foolishness to us as a natural man. 1 Cor 1:18. The natural man, the one not reborn and quickened to life does reject Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

That does not imply choice. It is a result of denying Him. There are not many people who deny Christ was a real person. The devil even knows He is the Son of God and trembles. So what does deny Him mean here?

 

[donadams]

Live & walk by the spirit!

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

A big “if”?

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; 4)
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

Ex 20 obey the Ten Commandments
Deut. 6:4 obey the two greatest commandments
Matt 28:20 obey christ’s commandments
Acts 1:2 obey christ’s commandments
Jn 15:4 abide in Christ
Mk 13:13 endure to the end
Matt 24:14 endure to the end
1 Jn 2:24-25 abide and continue in Christ
Rom 8:17 suffer with Christ
Rom 11:22 continue or be cut off
Col 1:21-23 if you continue
Col 2-5 steadfast
2 Tim 2:11-13 suffer
Phil 1:29 suffer for Christ’s sake
Heb 3:4-6 if we hold fast
Heb 6:4-9 fall away
Heb 12:22-25 lost if we turn away
1 Jn 5:16 sin unto death
We still have free will and can choose (volition) to reject Christ and the faith and renounce our baptism

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Abide in faith, but not faith alone!

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

I was thinking about starting a thread on this in prophecy.

Here's a video that explains some of it. Some of it makes you go hmmmmmmm wile some of it makes you go eh.

This is simply ridiculous and displays an unbiblical view of God's judgement. Eclipses are mathematical and precise. They can be predicted years in advance. They don't appear randomly and they aren't used by God to specify judgment. God has set up the positions of the sun, moon and earth (according to Genesis 1) for very specific reasons. They signal the timing of the Feasts of Yahweh and they are for markers of His special work for His chosen people - the Jewish people. That Americans want to claim special status that God is somehow using eclipses to signal special judgment is a continuation of the height of arrogance of that country.

 

[donadams]

No room.

Paul is speaking to those who are already believers. They are the ones who have the Spirit----whom the Spirit has rebirthed into the kingdom according to John 3. You read those passages as conditions for salvation, whereas if an understanding of who God is and an understanding of who man is in relation to the One who made us, (if one had also an understanding of John 3) they would know that it is all of the Spirit (God) with no contribution of man. Man has nothing to contribute. Not one single thing. It is all the grace of God. We are to live in obedience to our calling as His children and that is what Paul is addressing.

Do those “in the spirit” still have to conform to the spirit and obey and walk by the spirit?

 

[donadams]

We never had a will that was free. We have always been subject to God. We have never been free to disobey Him. Don't confuse the fact that we have a will because we were created with one, and freely make choices, with our will being free. If we are an enmity with God in our very nature due to the fall, we have no desire to choose Christ and so we will not, and cannot. We cannot even understand the things of God. The cross is foolishness to us as a natural man. 1 Cor 1:18. The natural man, the one not reborn and quickened to life does reject Christ.

That does not imply choice. It is a result of denying Him. There are not many people who deny Christ was a real person. The devil even knows He is the Son of God and trembles. So what does deny Him mean here?

Did Judas deny him?
Can one fall from grace?

 

[Arial]

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

A big “if”?

Already answered.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Abide in faith, but not faith alone!

Already answered. All the scriptures you posted presume they are saying that God is not in charge of who He saves, but that man is, and that the work of Christ was insufficient to save anyone, but requires our works added to His. With faith---which itself is a gift given by God as we do not have such faith in Christ in ourselves, (by grace you are saved, through faith. And that is not of yourself, but is a gift of God)--- comes the desire to obey and please God. We were by nature turned away from Him. He turns us to Him. If there is no such desire, we have not been turned toward Him, no matter how many good works and deeds we do. And if we believe our works can save us we have not placed our faith where it belongs. In the completed and perfect work of Christ.

 

[Arial]

Did Judas deny him?
Can one fall from grace?

Yes Judas denied Him. He never had a heart that accepted Him. He did not believe and then deny.

No, one cannot fall from the grace by which one is saved. The grace of God placed them in Christ and no one and nothing can take them out of His hands. (John 6)

 

[fastfredy0]

 

[CrowCross]

This is simply ridiculous and displays an unbiblical view of God's judgement. Eclipses are mathematical and precise. They can be predicted years in advance. They don't appear randomly and they aren't used by God to specify judgment. God has set up the positions of the sun, moon and earth (according to Genesis 1) for very specific reasons. They signal the timing of the Feasts of Yahweh and they are for markers of His special work for His chosen people - the Jewish people. That Americans want to claim special status that God is somehow using eclipses to signal special judgment is a continuation of the height of arrogance of that country.

As I said some of it was very interesting...while some, not so much.

 

[CrowCross]

Yes Judas denied Him. He never had a heart that accepted Him. He did not believe and then deny.

No, one cannot fall from the grace by which one is saved. The grace of God placed them in Christ and no one and nothing can take them out of His hands. (John 6)

I would agree. The son of perdition was never saved.

 

[CrowCross]

Already answered. All the scriptures you posted presume they are saying that God is not in charge of who He saves, but that man is, and that the work of Christ was insufficient to save anyone, but requires our works added to His. With faith

Why is it when you ask these guys just how much works is required to be added to Christ work....do we need to do...they never give a clear a answer?

 

[donadams]

Already answered.

Already answered. All the scriptures you posted presume they are saying that God is not in charge of who He saves, but that man is, and that the work of Christ was insufficient to save anyone, but requires our works added to His. With faith---which itself is a gift given by God as we do not have such faith in Christ in ourselves, (by grace you are saved, through faith. And that is not of yourself, but is a gift of God)--- comes the desire to obey and please God. We were by nature turned away from Him. He turns us to Him. If there is no such desire, we have not been turned toward Him, no matter how many good works and deeds we do. And if we believe our works can save us we have not placed our faith where it belongs. In the completed and perfect work of Christ.

Eph 2:8 is redemption which is part of salvation

Redemption
Justification
Sanctification
Purification
Salvation

 

[donadams]

Yes Judas denied Him. He never had a heart that accepted Him. He did not believe and then deny.

No, one cannot fall from the grace by which one is saved. The grace of God placed them in Christ and no one and nothing can take them out of His hands. (John 6)

How do you know, he was an apostle

Fallen from grace based on their choosing

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

But if you choose to walk after the flesh (sin) you will find condemnation

 

[donadams]

Yes Judas denied Him. He never had a heart that accepted Him. He did not believe and then deny.

No, one cannot fall from the grace by which one is saved. The grace of God placed them in Christ and no one and nothing can take them out of His hands. (John 6)

Why do you assume that you are one who will be saved?