Coming Against Reformed Theology

[donadams]

When a body drifts away from the Scriptures, apostasy is very possible.

The apostolic Church does not require scripture to know the truth!

 

[His clay]

The apostolic Church does not require scripture to know the truth!

Says who? Who really cares what you have to say? Your personal opinion is noted.

If you have jettisoned scriptural authority, then you have jettisoned the ultimate ground for authoritatively defining the "apostolic church." You have also jettisoned Jesus, as He often appealed to the authority of God's word inherent in Scripture. Jesus also stated to the Father, "Sanctify them by your truth; your word is truth." As such, since you have absolutely no authoritative connection to God, I see no reason to consider anything you say. If this is not what you are saying, then by all means try much much harder at better communicating your position.

 

[donadams]

When a body drifts away from the Scriptures, apostasy is very possible.

Does the apostolic church require scripture to know truth?

 

[donadams]

Gal 4:26 is referring to the heavenly Jerusalem, not the one Rome that is in Italy

New covenant church is the new or heavenly Jerusalem

 

[donadams]

You're a bit late to be speaking about obedience...

Romans 3:9-12,19-20 ESV
What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, [10] as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; [11] no one understands; no one seeks for God. [12] All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one." [19] Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. [20] For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

Our only obedience is through faith in God's Son.

And suffering?

 

[donadams]

Says who? Who really cares what you have to say? Your personal opinion is noted.

If you have jettisoned scriptural authority, then you have jettisoned the ultimate ground for authoritatively defining the "apostolic church." You have also jettisoned Jesus, as He often appealed to the authority of God's word inherent in Scripture. Jesus also stated to the Father, "Sanctify them by your truth; your word is truth." As such, since you have absolutely no authoritative connection to God, I see no reason to consider anything you say. If this is not what you are saying, then by all means try much much harder at better communicating your position.

oh my that’s some Christian virtue.

But I agree we don’t trust personal judgement.

Do you believe that “scripture is the only authority”?

 

[donadams]

Says who? Who really cares what you have to say? Your personal opinion is noted.

If you have jettisoned scriptural authority, then you have jettisoned the ultimate ground for authoritatively defining the "apostolic church." You have also jettisoned Jesus, as He often appealed to the authority of God's word inherent in Scripture. Jesus also stated to the Father, "Sanctify them by your truth; your word is truth." As such, since you have absolutely no authoritative connection to God, I see no reason to consider anything you say. If this is not what you are saying, then by all means try much much harder at better communicating your position.

Scripture? Yes!

Scripture alone? No!

Only Christ has authority to establish the church! Matt 16:18-19
One church! Jn 10:16 All others are sects “full of errors” “the tradition of men”! The new covenant Church is the eternal city of God! Household of faith! The pillar and ground of TRUTH! 1 Tim 3:15 Founded by Christ alone! Matt 16:18 on Peter and the apostles! Eph 2:20 Lk 22:29

The 30,000 sects (the tradition of men) having no authority at all! And holding and teaching contrary and new doctrines that oppose the Christian faith that was revealed by Christ and taught by holy mother church! Matt 28:19 acts 16:17

The church was founded and existed and exercised authority in teaching, governance, and sanctifying souls before the New Testament was written!

The church does not require the scriptures to know the truth!

The church wrote the scripture!

The church was taught by Christ in person for three years!

And commanded by Christ to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19

For 30 plus years before the apostles wrote scripture
By the inspiration of the Holy Ghost they taught and preached and settle matters of doctrine!

Acts 8:12 & 25 & 35
Acts 13:5
1 pet 1:25

And scripture is part of the apostolic and divine tradition!

Not like your tiny sect the tradition of men, have no authority from Christ!

Only Christ has authority to establish the church! Matt 16:18-19
One church! Jn 10:16 All others are sects “full of errors” “the tradition of men”! The new covenant Church is the eternal city of God! Household of faith! The pillar and ground of TRUTH! 1 Tim 3:15 Founded by Christ alone! Matt 16:18 on Peter and the apostles! Eph 2:20 Lk 22:29

The 30,000 sects (the tradition of men) having no authority at all! And holding and teaching contrary and new doctrines that oppose the Christian faith that was revealed by Christ and taught by holy mother church! Matt 28:19 acts 16:17

 

[prism]

Now if one sola be false they all be false! Amen!

I see,
we are still clueless in Rome.

 

[prism]

The apostolic Church does not require scripture to know the truth!

No wonder they are still clueless in Rome.

 

[prism]

Does the apostolic church require scripture to know truth?

Well, they can just make things up to further their agenda. What's to stop them without a Standard?

 

[prism]

New covenant church is the new or heavenly Jerusalem

Like I said, 'not the one in Rome that is in Italy.'.

 

[prism]

And suffering?

Jesus' suffering and death was sufficient for our life.

 

[donadams]

No wonder they are still clueless in Rome.

The church was founded and existed and exercised authority in teaching, governance, and sanctifying souls before the New Testament was written!

The church does not require the scriptures to know the truth!

The church wrote the scripture!

The church was taught by Christ in person for three years!

And commanded by Christ to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19

For 30 plus years before the apostles wrote scripture
By the inspiration of the Holy Ghost they taught and preached and settle matters of doctrine!

Acts 8:12 & 25 & 35
Acts 13:5
1 pet 1:25

And scripture is part of the apostolic and divine tradition!

 

[donadams]

Well, they can just make things up to further their agenda. What's to stop them without a Standard?

Jude 1:3 once handed to the saints
Our religion is revealed by God and taught by the apostolic church by the command of Christ! Matt 28:19

 

[donadams]

Like I said, 'not the one in Rome that is in Italy.'.

The new covenant church founded by Christ is universal (catholic)

 

[donadams]

Jesus' suffering and death was sufficient for our life.

How are you going to ever explain His words then! And scripture

And Christ is our model in everything including “taking the sins of the world on himself”
The church continues his redemption and teaching and sanctifying and the ministry of reconciliation!

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Galatians 5:24
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

 

[prism]

The church was founded and existed and exercised authority in teaching, governance, and sanctifying souls before the New Testament was written!

I see. Is that why the Jewish leaders (who were into Tradition, crucified Jesus?

The church does not require the scriptures to know the truth!

John 8:31-32 ESV
So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, "If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, [32] and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

The church wrote the scripture!

The Apostles and Prophets (who were Jews) wrote the Scriptures.

For 30 plus years before the apostles wrote scripture
By the inspiration of the Holy Ghost they taught and preached and settle matters of doctrine!

It's too bad the Church didn't abide in that doctrine and drifted over the years into strange doctrine.

 

[prism]

The new covenant church founded by Christ is universal (catholic)

Yes, that's what catholic means, it's too bad it became oxymoronic by appending the word 'Roman' to the word catholic.

 

[prism]

How are you going to ever explain His words then! And scripture

And Christ is our model in everything including “taking the sins of the world on himself”
The church continues his redemption and teaching and sanctifying and the ministry of reconciliation!

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Galatians 5:24
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Now you're talking about fruit of the Gospel and so you end up mixing law and Gospel by inserting sanctification into our justification.

 

[Arial]

@donadams

To move the thread back to the actual thrust and intent of the OP and away from the unsubstantiated claims of the RCC-----

Reformed theology is covenant theology. That is a very intensive and extensive conversation all in itself and should have its own thread. Much of what comes against Reformed theology is dispensationalist, though not all dispensationalist are adherents of the TULIP. I point this out because it is in part a dispensationalist view of interpreting scripture, that causes much of the objection to Reformed theology. It does this by isolating or separating, the covenant of redemption from the whole of scripture. It has two covenants---the Sinai Covenant and the New Covenant (covenant of grace as it is called) as unrelated. Whereas all covenants that God enters into with humanity are covenants of grace. Fallen, sinful man deserves nothing from God, and certainly not a personal relationship----which is what a covenant is.

The covenant of redemption began with Adam and Eve, when God cursed the serpent with a promise that the seed of a woman would crush his heel. A covenant of grace also existed in Eden with Adam and Eve for there, walked in the Garden with them. And this covenant was not only with Adam and Eve, but with all of creation itself. Adam was the mediator of that covenant. The caretaker of all of creation.

Noah was mediator of the covenant of redemption, and God's covenant with Adam as steward over creation renewed, His covenant with creation renewed, after the judgement of the flood. And in Noah, the promised Seed preserved. But Noah and his family were still fallen creatures, awaiting the birth of the arrival of the Seed.

Moses was mediator of the Sinai covenant with Israel from whom this Seed would come. God preserves His relationship with humanity rather than destroying all of humanity as we deserve. Covenant of grace within the Noahic covenant, of grace within the Sinai covenant, covenant of grace fulfilled in Christ and Christ as its mediator. God's covenant with all of creation, including the animals, awaits His second appearance for completion. He does all this through redeeming a people for Himself, which is astonishing.

This is the view of the Bible, and this is the view of Reformed theology. There is no room for man to become the determining factor in the efficacy of this work of grace by God in Christ. None.