COL 1: 18

[Eleanor]

I believe that the Gentiles were grafted into the promises made to Israel, but those promises did not begin to be realized until Pentecost.

What promises do you have in mind?

 

[Eleanor]

As a dispensationalist I can say with certainty it would not have affected it

Israel and the church are one entity as far as eternity goes. It always has been

They are one entity--the one olive tree, the one people of God, of faith in the promise, Jesus Christ (Ge 15:5), as far as time goes (Ro 11:16-23).

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I believe that the Gentiles were grafted into the promises made to Israel, but those promises did not begin to be realized until Pentecost.

Remember, the. Promises made to abraham included the gentiles.. All the nations of the world will be blessed..

 

[Eleanor]

Remember, the. Promises made to abraham included the gentiles.. All the nations of the world will be blessed..

Before the cutting off of Israel except for a remnant (Ro 11:16-23)?

 

[Dave]

What promises do you have in mind?

The one they were grafted in to. lol Just kidding.

The promises made to Abraham and his descendants. Still just a promise until Pentecost, no?

Dave

 

[Dave]

Remember, the. Promises made to abraham included the gentiles.. All the nations of the world will be blessed..

Yes, all the Nations would be blessed through the promised Seed, Him being Jesus Christ. That begs the question, is that passage merely looking forward, or are the Gentiles already grafted in at that point?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

The one they were grafted in to. lol Just kidding.

The promises made to Abraham and his descendants. Still just a promise until Pentecost, no?

Dave

Abraham was given many promises.

All are in effect even today and stil be fulfilled

 

[Eleanor]

The one they were grafted in to. lol Just kidding.

The promises made to Abraham and his descendants. Still just a promise until Pentecost, no?

Dave

Pentecost was a special filling of the Holy Spirit, whom we see given in Jn 20:22-23.

The Holy Spirit comes with rebirth (Jn 3:3-5).

They were born again before Pentecost.

 

[Whatever]

The promises made to Abraham and his descendants.

Oh, you messed up.
Galatians 3:16
Common English Bible
16 The promises were made to Abraham and to his descendant. It doesn’t say, “and to the descendants,” as if referring to many rather than just one. It says, “and to your descendant,” who is Christ.

I used the Common English Bible because it is one of the few that uses the word descendant and descendants.
Most use "seed" or "offspring."

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Oh, you messed up.
Galatians 3:16
Common English Bible
16 The promises were made to Abraham and to his descendant. It doesn’t say, “and to the descendants,” as if referring to many rather than just one. It says, “and to your descendant,” who is Christ.

I used the Common English Bible because it is one of the few that uses the word descendant and descendants.
Most use "seed" or "offspring."

They all prety much mean the same thing.

 

[John Bauer]

I used the Common English Bible because it is one of the few that uses the word descendant and descendants. Most use "seed" or "offspring."

The New English Translation, too, which is my favorite translation. Here is what it said: "Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his descendant. Scripture does not say, 'and to the descendants,' referring to many, but 'and to your descendant,' referring to one, who is Christ."

 

[prism]

What is the church?

Good question, but I would say at least it is future from this passage...
Matthew 16:18 ESV
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
(Unless one is a preterist in which case all was fulfilled by 70AD )

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Good question, but I would say at least it is future from this passage...
Matthew 16:18 ESV
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
(Unless one is a preterist in which case all was fulfilled by 70AD )

Amen, Th church will go through the gates of hell into the world. And God will use it to build itself up with his leading

 

[prism]

Angel simply means messenger.

Ok, simple human messengers, but no angelic messengers like Gabriel in the NT?

 

[prism]

The church basically comes from a greek word ekklesia, meaning a gathering or an assembly

In the OT the assembly was represented by Israel with the priesthood.

After christ. This change to a new assembly. As Jesus said, this new message would start in jerusalem. Spread to the whole earth.

And 'congregation is opposite of Church. One is a calling out (ekklesia) the other is a coming together (con), synagogue/sunogogue/synthesis

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

And 'congregation is opposite of Church. One is a calling out (ekklesia) the other is a coming together (con), synagogue/sunogogue/synthesis

God called out Israel from Abraham, From Egypt.

He called me out from Ohio.

I also come together multiple times a week in an assembly of a mens study, a discipleship group a Small home group, and a weekly teaching at our main campus

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

And 'congregation is opposite of Church. One is a calling out (ekklesia) the other is a coming together (con), synagogue/sunogogue/synthesis

Sorry if I am misunderstanding what your trying to say brother

 

[Hazelelponi]

Good question, but I would say at least it is future from this passage...
Matthew 16:18 ESV
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
(Unless one is a preterist in which case all was fulfilled by 70AD )

Are you saying you believe the church is future from like, our present day?

Can you be more clear what you are trying to say?

 

[Whatever]

Ok, simple human messengers, but no angelic messengers like Gabriel in the NT?

Messenger has no reference to human or angel. There have been human and angel messengers.

Angel in the OT
Daniel 8:15 Then it happened, when I, Daniel, had seen the vision and was seeking the meaning, that suddenly there stood before me one having the appearance of a man. 16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of the Ulai, who called, and said, "Gabriel, make this man understand the vision." 17 So he came near where I stood, and when he came I was afraid and fell on my face; but he said to me, "Understand, son of man, that the vision refers to the time of the end."

Gabriel is the same angel who talked to Mary in Luke 1:26 and following.

Malachi 3:1 "Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the covenant, In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming," Says the LORD of hosts.

In both incidences of "messenger" it is the Hebrew "mal'âk" which is H4397.
The KJV translates Strong's H4397 in the following manner: angel (111x), messenger (98x), ambassadors (4x), variant (1x).

The first messenger is John the Baptist who prepared the way before Jesus, and Jesus is the messenger of the covenant.

 

[Josheb]

Colossians 1:18 (KJV) And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Looking at Colossians 1:18, I ask, "How could the church exist in the Old Testament when the incarnation and resurrection had not happened yet?"

The Church could exist in the Old Testament because God has always had those He "called out." Noah and Abraham would be prime examples of folks God called out, called out of the world into His service. In the Old Testament they are called the "qahal," or "assembly." This is observable in the fact that when the Jews translated their "Bible" into Greek they used the word "ecclesia" to replace qahal. The qahal stands in distinction to Israel (not all Israel is Israel). Not all Israel is qahal. Not all Israel is ecclesia.