Christ, the true Israel. A problem for dispensationalists.

[Carbon]

Just one so I can see any one of the 12 apostles call Jesus the new Israel . I thought that was a reasonable question to ask.

Respectfully bro. Just by the way you ask the question...

call Jesus the new Israel

...makes it obvious either you're not understanding what I said, or you are ignoring what I said, for a reason.

 

[Carbon]

Just one so I can see any one of the 12 apostles call Jesus the new Israel . I thought that was a reasonable question to ask.

Maybe you misunderstood?

When Israel was a child, I loved him,
and out of Egypt I called my son. Hosea 11:1.

Matthew tells us that this prophecy was fulfilled when Jesus as a baby, was brought to Egypt for a time by his parents to protect him. Matthew 2.

13 Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Rise, take the child and his mother, and flee to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you, for Herod is about to search for the child, to destroy him.” 14 And he rose and took the child and his mother by night and departed to Egypt 15 and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, “Out of Egypt I called my son.” Matt 2:13-18

Matthew himself says such.

Hope this clears it up.

 

[civic]

And according to the Apostles who wrote of these things wrote Jesus was the true Israel of God.

This was your claim not mine so all I was asking is just for a single reference from just one apostle .

“ apostles who wrote these things wrote Jesus “ was the true Israel “ of God.

 

[Carbon]

“ apostles who wrote these things wrote Jesus “ was the true Israel “ of God.

I'm glad you get that.

 

[Carbon]

Maybe you misunderstood?

When Israel was a child, I loved him,
and out of Egypt I called my son. Hosea 11:1.

Matthew tells us that this prophecy was fulfilled when Jesus as a baby, was brought to Egypt for a time by his parents to protect him. Matthew 2.

13 Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Rise, take the child and his mother, and flee to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you, for Herod is about to search for the child, to destroy him.” 14 And he rose and took the child and his mother by night and departed to Egypt 15 and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, “Out of Egypt I called my son.” Matt 2:13-18

Matthew himself says such.

Hope this clears it up.

I do not know how anyone can deny this.

Matthew himself says such.

 

[Carbon]

I do not know how anyone can deny this.

Matthew himself says such.

I don't mean to come across as a jerk. So, if I have I apologize.

It's just so obvious.

 

[Carbon]

A short clip from Ligonier.

That hope for a new Israel—a true Israel that would embody all that God called Israel to be—persisted across the centuries into the New Testament era. This hope was finally fulfilled in the incarnation of God’s true Son by nature, Jesus Christ. Matthew tells us that Jesus fulfills Hosea 11 (Matt. 2:13–15). He is the true Israel, the faithful Israel who succeeds where old covenant Israel failed. Like ancient Israel, He came up out of Egypt, passed through the waters, and was tested in the wilderness (2:13–15; 3:13–4:11; see Ex. 12:40–42; 14:1–31; 16:4). Unlike old covenant Israel, however, Jesus passed the test. He is therefore worthy to be called God’s Son because of who He is in His deity and because of what He accomplished in His humanity.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Nope. Go back to the post and re-read. I'm just agreeing with the scriptures.

Nope. You are agreeing with your tradition which plays fast and loose with the Scriptures to shoehorn Amil / Replacement theology at all points.

Dangerous but you are a dangerous man. Which is why I love you and the folks here enough to say "Sez You". So there.

 

[Carbon]

Also from Ligonier,

The good news of the gospel tells us that we can be the true Israel of God as well. If we are in Christ, we share in the privileges and relationship He enjoys as God’s true Son. We are not sons of God by nature; rather, we are sons of God by adoption, His beloved children in Christ. As such, we inherit all of the promises given to old covenant Israel. Those promises of God that Israel would rule over her enemies and enjoy abundant covenant blessings (for example, Isa. 14:1–2)—those promises are for all of God’s people, the true Israel of God consisting of Jews and Gentiles who are united to Christ by faith alone. In Him we are the true Israel of God, heirs of the glorious destiny promised to God’s old covenant people (Zeph. 3:14–20).

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

I don't mean to come across as a jerk. So, if I have I apologize.

It's just so obvious.

You are forgiven for being a jerk. And wrong.

 

[Carbon]

Nope. You are agreeing with your tradition which plays fast and loose with the Scriptures to shoehorn Amil / Replacement theology at all points.

Dangerous but you are a dangerous man. Which is why I love you and the folks here enough to say "Sez You". So there.

sez you

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

This stuff is also problematic for Post-mills as well. So, don't feel along brother.

I've never felt along in my life. That's illegal. I think.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

sez you

Indeed

 

[civic]

I'm glad you get that.

I didn’t which is why I asked

 

[Carbon]

Where does the Temple come in, regarding God's future eschatological blessings for the nation of Israel? What do the new testament writers teach in regards to the temple in light of the coming Messiah?

Dipsy's? Go ahead. Please explain this?

 

[Carbon]

Which is why I love you

I thought it was because I was a lovable guy.

 

[Eleanor]

When Israel was a child, I loved him,
and out of Egypt I called my son. Hosea 11:1.
Matthew tells us that this prophecy was fulfilled when Jesus as a baby, was brought to Egypt for a time by his parents to protect him. Matthew 2.
13 Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Rise, take the child and his mother, and flee to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you, for Herod is about to search for the child, to destroy him.” 14 And he rose and took the child and his mother by night and departed to Egypt 15 and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, “Out of Egypt I called my son.” Matt 2:13-18
What's interesting to note is Matthew centuries later took this passage (didn't spiritualize it) from Hosea, which referred to Isreal and tells us it was fulfilled in Christ.
Some call this belief spiritualizing a passage (replacement theology.) But hearing it from Matthew?

For starters, it's not replacement theology, it's fulfillment theology.

Secondly, the apostle's teaching is authoritative for the church, dispensational theology is not.

 

[Eleanor]

Since the Apostles taught that Jesus was the true Israel of God, and the fulfillment of the OT prophecies, what remains of the dispensationalist's case that these prophecies are yet to be fulfilled in a future 1000-year Millennium? I'd say they are fulfilled in Jesus Christ, and therefore vanish.

Fulfillment, as in all the prophecies of Jesus' birth and death, is just that, it is prophecy no more.

 

[Carbon]

When Israel was a child, I loved him,
and out of Egypt I called my son. Hosea 11:1.
Jesus and Spiritual Israel.

It would probably be best if you looked into it, it just i'm multitasking stuff here and offline. A bit out of focus.

 

[Carbon]

I'll wait for your answer, I might get led astray by a google search into a cult or something. Plus everything on the internet is true ya know.

Okay. Give me a bit since the best way to explain it is with scripture teaching on the subject, and there is a lot of it.