The sweating blood wasn't due to intense praying.....or should I say that's not what the bible teaches.
Thorough my life I have heard several sermons on Jesus sweating blood...read several commentaries..posted the definition...and never once heard it was caused by a deep intense prayer.
If I may.....
I just cannot get past this first part of your thread, But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: I just cannot get past this.
Intresting thought...but I disagree.
Agreed.
I agree. It's pretty hard for us humans to wrap our heads around the scale of what happened.
Disgust causes agony. Of course he was in agony. Hematohidrosis hurts! The skin swells and becomes tender. Blood is a much more viscous fluid than sweat, and that contributes to the pain. We do not know the degree to which Jesus sweat blood, but the eyes and ears can seep blood, and it's very difficult to clasp hands in prayer when the palms experience the condition.
Bad translation. The Greek states he was grieved, sorrowful, to the point of death, not overwhelmed. What, in Gethsemane, would have caused him grief - we both agree he already knew what would befall him! He'd manage to live every day of his life with all of that knowledge, but in Gethsemane something other than what he already knew distressed him to the point of bleeding through his skin.
The correct theological position is fully human. Furthermore, Jesus was never 100% only human. In other words, in any given second in which he was fully human (which was every second of his incarnate life) he was also fully God, never not both simultaneously. When he got hungry, he felt hungry as a fully human and fully God person. When he felt pain, the pain was felt as a fully human and fully God person. His knowledge of his destiny (not fate) was both temporal and eternal, fully human and fully God.
Many humans have experienced Hematohidrosis, but not a single one of them did so prior to bearing the sum of sin.Which is exactly what I posted.
Unnecessary repetition. Yes, he did. I explicitly stated that in Post 26. What would a fully human sinless human think, feel, want, and do knowing the moment of his becoming sin was about to imminently befall him? Agony.
No, not a "level" of it, an incredibly immeasurable amount of it.
I disagree and I find nothing in Post 28 to dissuade me of Post 26. The reasoning contained therein is sophomoric, at best.
And yet Post 28 presumes to do exactly that. The essence of that post's dissent is that because Jesus was human and knew his fate he wasn't disgusted to the point of sweating blood but might, perhaps, had a level of disgust. His being fully human was not a deterrent to his sweating blood; it contributed to that condition.
What could possibly be more demeaning than for a righteous God/man who'd humbled himself in such a manner only to be made sin...... knowing his reputation would remain void by most of humanity and his work rejected by the majority?
Amen this. And, conversely, (and perhaps off topic), the beauty of some of the things of God, to include the purity of his very being, are beyond our capability to bear in our present condition. We KNOW things of him, that we (our human psyche) are unable to look at or put words to, or even to consider at any relative depth. He is too much for us right now.
Yep.
I've made my point...I'm not going to respond to a long post that errored from the get go.Disgust causes agony. Of course he was in agony. Hematohidrosis hurts! The skin swells and becomes tender. Blood is a much more viscous fluid than sweat, and that contributes to the pain. We do not know the degree to which Jesus sweat blood, but the eyes and ears can seep blood, and it's very difficult to clasp hands in prayer when the palms experience the condition.
Bad translation. The Greek states he was grieved, sorrowful, to the point of death, not overwhelmed. What, in Gethsemane, would have caused him grief - we both agree he already knew what would befall him! He'd manage to live every day of his life with all of that knowledge, but in Gethsemane something other than what he already knew distressed him to the point of bleeding through his skin.
The correct theological position is fully human. Furthermore, Jesus was never 100% only human. In other words, in any given second in which he was fully human (which was every second of his incarnate life) he was also fully God, never not both simultaneously. When he got hungry, he felt hungry as a fully human and fully God person. When he felt pain, the pain was felt as a fully human and fully God person. His knowledge of his destiny (not fate) was both temporal and eternal, fully human and fully God.
When do you think was the last time God bled through his pores?
Which is exactly what I posted.
Unnecessary repetition. Yes, he did. I explicitly stated that in Post 26. What would a fully human sinless human think, feel, want, and do knowing the moment of his becoming sin was about to imminently befall him? Agony.
And disgust.
Having all of sin poured onto you is not like being hungry for forty days. It's not like being repeatedly rejected by those you came to save.
No, not a "level" of it, an incredibly immeasurable amount of it.
ALL the sin...
...of ALL humanity,
individually and collectively,
for all of time...
poured on to one person...
in one instance.
That is a "level" no one but Jesus has ever experienced. One sin disgusts God. Two sins disgust Him exponentially twice as much due to its cumulative substance. Three sins exponentially thrice as much. Christ's "level" of disgust is exponential to the sum of sin that was faced in Gethsemane because of his righteousness.
I disagree and I find nothing in Post 28 to dissuade me of Post 26. The reasoning contained therein is sophomoric, at best.
And yet Post 28 presumes to do exactly that. The essence of that post's dissent is that because Jesus was human and knew his fate he wasn't disgusted to the point of sweating blood but might, perhaps, had a level of disgust. His being fully human was not a deterrent to his sweating blood; it contributed to that condition.
If any one of us ever came face to face with the fullness of our own sin we'd runaway in terror, weeping at the nearly immeasurable depth of our depravity revealed in all its truth. We'd lose our minds begging for mercy (even though it has already been granted). There is a reason we will be transformed before standing before His throne.
Jesus knelt down and leaned into it despite the hunger, pain, full knowledge of his destiny.
What could possibly be more demeaning than for a righteous God/man who'd humbled himself in such a manner only to be made sin...... knowing his reputation would remain void by most of humanity and his work rejected by the majority?
The classic Reformed/monergist position is that Jesus' work is sufficient to save all, but efficient (or efficacious) only in the lives of those he actually saved. Therefore, ALL the sins of the world were born, only those for which the monergistically chosen, called, commanded, etc. were proved salvific.
Yep
It's both blessed and horrifying. Consider the gift it was to be shown only a glimpse when all of it could have (and one day will be) revealed.
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