Okay on that, but you can not demand me to engage with you, I don't even have to respond to you and follow that rule. And if I see what appears to be a rabbit trail from the point I'm making I generally will not respond. You have a tendency to get off my topic to discuss your topic.
1. When applied. No one is saying otherwise. It is you who implies it in one breath and the next acknowledges it must be applied.
If you read my whole post that you are responding to, I said you were under no obligation to respond to my posts. Why are you arguing about something taken out of its context like that? And add to it an off topic personal accusation that violates the very rule I quoted? So far I have not been off topic or rabbit trailed---but do you see how you have now instigated just such a thing. That stops right here.
Who said otherwise? Just so happens the sinners that deserve wrath but get mercy are the vessels of mercy. The sinners that deserve Justice and get Justice are the vessels of wrath. Two different sets of wrath deserving sinners. The vessels of wrath were always appointed to Wrath but the vessels of mercy were always appointed to mercy.
No one said any different than that either. So, what exactly do you think I am saying and @Josheb is saying, that disagrees with your position? To have that stated from your POV would be not only helpful, but crucial to the conversation.
Do you want to discuss the scriptures I provided ?
Okay so just enjoy the fellowship of what Im saying. {edit}
Do you understand the words "eternal" and "everlasting" do not mean the same thing? Eternity has no beginning or end. It is infinite in all directions. Everlasting, in contrast, is that something that is ever lasting has a beginning, but it continues on in time without end. Everlasting is infinite in only one direction. The fact is God's mercy is eternal, but His mercy toward those that fear Him is everlasting. It has a beginning, an origin in a fixed point of time, and in continues on forever.
I just showed you scripture that states the exact opposite of that statement. Even those building on the foundation of Christ will have their works tested. It is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment (Heb. 9:27). We must all stand before the judgment seat of God so that we may receive the compensation for our deeds - the deeds done in the body of Christ (2 Cor. 5:10). Each one of us will give and account (Rom. 14:12). That "us" is the saints, not just the Christ-denier. God will not show favoritism when He repays the wrongdoer (Col. 3:25). The only difference will be that those who sowed to the flesh will receive destruction and those who sowed to the Spirit will reap eternal life.
The posts prove otherwise.
What you are saying is a perverse rendering of scripture.
Yes. No one should be expected to "enjoy" the fellowship when God's word is abused.
What does from everlasting to everlasting mean
The vessels of mercy will be at the Judgment but they won't be Judged for their sins against God, Christ already has been. All their sins have been taken out of the way Col 2:14
There are two manner of people Gen Gen 25:23
When did God purpose Christ to be the redeemer of the elect, was it before they sinned or after. 1 Pet 1:19-20
It would be helpful if the title were clearer. Such as Christ died for Those Who Were Not Appointed to Wrath.
Also, true.
And? How does giving the Greek definition of poieo as being to make= create have any bearing on the discussion?
Ah, I see. Now you have gone sideways, and this is where the dispute comes in. First of all you have you have applied a scripture about vessels of honor and dishonor to something it does not apply to. Creation. What you have now asserted in your OP is that God created some already dishonorable by his hand, and some not created dishonorable. That does two things. It has a perfect holy God in whom there is no guile, creating some people as sinners, and others who also sin as not sinners.
When you give a response to the inquiry of my post, since both of these responses by you are to the same post, which you voluntarily responded to, we can go deal with whatever scriptures you are talking about.
I have already answered that question.
That is not a point in dispute. The specific point of abuse is you believe God made two distinct types of people, one inherently sinful and always and everywhere destined for wrath, and another group what have/will never experienced any kind of any wrath to any degree at any period of their lives but have, instead experienced only and always mercy. That is incorrect. That is THE point of dispute.
No, the facts in evidence prove it.
Yes, but they developed after creation was created, not before. You've assumed God's foreknowledge was causally determinative prior to His creating creation and it is not. You've mistaken correlation with causation (along with several other errors in reasoning).
I have already answered that question, too, AND expounded on the matter at some length. You are either not reading the posts or you're trolling.
The rule of correct biblical hermeneutics is to find the meaning of a text before applying it to anything. Applyin a text withut finding the proper meaning results in things like what is presented above. (The fact that the KJV is the only translation that uses " two manner of people" aside). Most others translate it according to the full consel of God---"two nations", because that is what God is talking about here. Twins. Jacob and Esau. Jacob became the nation Israel and Esau became Edom. It is not talking about vessels of wrath and vessels of mercy and should not be applied as though it were. Especially if it is being done so in order to "support" an erroneous claim that God created evil people and righteous people. It is even more egregious to then claim that those he created as already honorable vessels still needed Christ to die for their sins. What sins would those be?
At which point silence ensues. Crickets chirping. God made one group of good people at creation. ALL the good and sinless people God made became not-good and sinful because the disobedience of one man caused the entrance of sin into the world. We can't even get close to passages like...
