Can We Determine the Age of the Universe and Earth Biblically?

[makesends]

It didn't cause itself to go bang out of nothingness, something very powerful was obviously behind it.

THAT's what I'm saying...

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

THAT's what I'm saying...

Why do you assume that it takes something "very powerful" to destabilize a singularity?

 

[makesends]

Why do you assume that it takes something "very powerful" to destabilize a singularity?

The "very powerful" was not the point; in fact, the destabilizing of a singularity is not the point. The point is that something made the singularity (if there even was one). It did not cause itself. Turtles all the way down.

 

[Josheb]

Can we determine the age of the universe and earth biblically?

That depends on what you mean by "biblically?"

All truth is biblical. Science, when done correctly, is biblical. If the question asked is meant to inquire, "Can we determine the age of the universe solely by reading scripture?" the answer is "No, probably not, because the Bible is not a cosmological textbook on astronomical physics. Trying to use the Bible for that task would be akin to using sledgehammer to paint the scales on a butterfly's wings or milk a bull with a circular saw." If, on another hand, the question asked is intended to inquire is, "Has God provided any means by which humans can understand the age of the universe?" the answer to that question is, "Possibly, because God has made the universe knowable and made creatures (us) to know the knowable."

If and when an accurate age of the universe is known, then whatever that number is will be biblical. The truth is always biblical.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

The "very powerful" was not the point. In fact, the destabilizing of a singularity is not the point.

It seemed to be the point that Musician was making: "It didn't cause itself to go bang out of nothingness, something very powerful was obviously behind it" (emphasis added). And you replied, "That's what I'm saying." The math added up for me.

The point is that something made the singularity (if there even was one). It did not cause itself.

And there are "scientific descriptions and pursuits" that are indeed "interested in looking further back" and finding answers to questions like that one, contrary to what you had said. (For example, the Hawking-Hartle no-boundary proposal coupled with loop quantum gravity doesn't have a singularity at the beginning.)

 

[EarlyActs]

I understand that. But his summary didn't logically follow. There is nothing inherent in the premise ("the universe had no external cause") that necessitates the Big Bang produced exactly equal amounts of matter and antimatter. That is what's required to result in a universe that is smooth and uniform. Even the absolute slightest asymmetry between matter and antimatter results in particular, individualized structures.

That's interesting, although I'm missing the definition of anti-matter, if you could provide.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

I'm missing the definition of anti-matter, if you could provide.

Anti-baryons (but also anti-leptons).

 

[Rella]

Small side note.

As I cannot send a DM to @Alan, I am tagging him here as I believe he might give some good info here and enjoy this thread.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

Yes. And I have successfully done it. Many thousands of people through the centuries have made the same attempt. However, 99.999% of people actually fail at getting it totally correct. That is because most people do not have an understanding of the way numbers and dates work in Hebrew culture. Most of the dates in the Scripture are easy to make a spreadsheet out of. But there are some tricky pitfalls that everyone gets wrong. Once you work through that, the date of April 25, 3970 BC emerges as the first date of the calendar (but not the first day of Creation).

But how do you know it is correct. God has put several different ongoing cycles that span human history. If these all coincide and mesh, then you have internal confirmation that the spreadsheet is correct. Cycles of the Long Days (1000 year Days), Jubilee cycles, Sabbatical cycles, Eclipse event signs. All of these have been confirmed and serve to prove that the Masoretic text is the correct text. Not the Septuagint adulterated text.

 

[Rella]

Yes. And I have successfully done it. Many thousands of people through the centuries have made the same attempt. However, 99.999% of people actually fail at getting it totally correct. That is because most people do not have an understanding of the way numbers and dates work in Hebrew culture. Most of the dates in the Scripture are easy to make a spreadsheet out of. But there are some tricky pitfalls that everyone gets wrong. Once you work through that, the date of April 25, 3970 BC emerges as the first date of the calendar (but not the first day of Creation).

Great. Now, if 3970 is the first date of the calendar, have you a way to determine when the first day of creation is?

But how do you know it is correct. God has put several different ongoing cycles that span human history. If these all coincide and mesh, then you have internal confirmation that the spreadsheet is correct. Cycles of the Long Days (1000 year Days), Jubilee cycles, Sabbatical cycles, Eclipse event signs. All of these have been confirmed and serve to prove that the Masoretic text is the correct text. Not the Septuagint adulterated text.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

Great. Now, if 3970 is the first date of the calendar, have you a way to determine when the first day of creation is?

It's pretty simple if you read Genesis 1.

 

[Rella]

It's pretty simple if you read Genesis 1.

First, I would say if 3970BC is first date of the calendar.... there was no calendar in Genesis 1.

IF... and I say this is a huge IF creation week was 168 litereal hours of 7 days.... (For the recorde I do not believe this) then the average person would come up with 3963BC..... WHICH OF COURSE IS IDIOTIC.

And I also do not necessarily count the first day of creation as the time the Holy Spirit was gliding over the waters...

And not necessarily the time that the trees, and shrubs, and dandelions and pigweed came into being...

And while this is mentioned like this in a bible I no longer read.... KJV Gen 2: 4These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, IF KJV is true there is no way there would be a generation in 1 day.

But thanks anyway

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

First, I would say if 3970BC is first date of the calendar.... there was no calendar in Genesis 1.

IF... and I say this is a huge IF creation week was 168 litereal hours of 7 days.... (For the recorde I do not believe this) then the average person would come up with 3963BC..... WHICH OF COURSE IS IDIOTIC.

And I also do not necessarily count the first day of creation as the time the Holy Spirit was gliding over the waters...

And not necessarily the time that the trees, and shrubs, and dandelions and pigweed came into being...

And while this is mentioned like this in a bible I no longer read.... KJV Gen 2: 4These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, IF KJV is true there is no way there would be a generation in 1 day.

But thanks anyway

Read Genesis 1 again. You are missing a lot of things. Thursday, April 25, 3970 BC is the 5th day of Creation. The sun and moon were created the day before and move into the correct position by midnight which starts the luni-solar cycle which the Hebrew calendar is based on. Just count 5 days back and you get the date of the 1st day (if there would have been a calendar at that point - which there can't be because the calendar depends on the sun and moon being in existence).

Try again.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

Read Genesis 1 again. You are missing a lot of things. Thursday, April 25, 3970 BC is the 5th day of Creation. The sun and moon were created the day before and move into the correct position by midnight which starts the luni-solar cycle which the Hebrew calendar is based on. Just count 5 days back and you get the date of the 1st day (if there would have been a calendar at that point - which there can't be because the calendar depends on the sun and moon being in existence).

Try again.

Actually I misspoke. The sun and moon reached their appointed positions by dusk on the 4th day of Creation - when it was just turning into the 5th day - as that is the start of the day in the Hebrew calendar (God's calendar). Midnight as the change of days is a Roman invention.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

This leads to a fascinating and mysterious topic that many generations have wondered about - why are the Days of Creation ordered the way they are? To the modern mind still influenced by the evolutionary mindset, the order of creation does not make sense according to the present understanding of scientific principles. How can the sun (and moon) be created after the earth, land, and vegetation? However, what no one in modern times has known is that God has put in a secret code in the very order of Creation which shows that Jesus was the Messiah at His first coming and will be the proof that it is Jesus who comes at His second coming. No one else can claim this.

How does this work? It is all based on the Hebrew calendar - a luni-solar calendar which has months which alternate between 30 and 29 days respectively. The proper Hebrew calendar has the month start at the first sliver of light after the new moon phase. According to the Creation account, this very first day of the very first month happened on a Thursday. One of the major Feasts of the Lord, Passover, always happens on the 14th day of the first month (the spring Feasts). With Thursday being the first day of the first month, Passover will always fall on a Wednesday. All the other Feasts of the Lord that year fall on their particular days of the week when that year starts with that particular setup. This Passover sets up the important principle of "the middle of the week" which God uses in history to mark special events. The fall Feasts also has a particular Feast - the Feast of Booths which happens during the middle of the 6th month.

Knowing this special "middle of the week" day order to the calendar, it is fascinating to map out the events of the Exodus. One finds out that the Exodus also happened during the first month where the first day of the month was a Thursday and the Passover was on the "middle of the week".

It would take too much space to develop this, but the birth of Jesus took place in 6 BC where the particular day order again had the first day of the first month take place on Thursday. This was also the case in 31 AD, the crucifixion taking place on a Wednesday (not Friday) in the "middle of the week".

Then there is the "middle of the week" spoken of in Daniel which is connected to the future temple defilement. This is specifically referring the the "middle of the week" of 7 years. However, what is very interesting is that the two previous temples were both destroyed on Av 10, on Wednesday, the middle of the week of days. The future temple will be defiled during the middle of the last week of 7 years. But not only that, on Av 10 which will be a Wednesday as well. There is only one upcoming date that fits - that is in 2029. Then using all the other date cues given in Daniel, it can be shown that 3 1/2 years later, is a year where the first month will begin on a Thursday and will have that special "middle of the week" day order. There is only one set of years coming up that fits this very specific day order pattern - the Feast of Booths occurring during the middle of week in the fall in 2032.

So all this to show that nothing God has done is random or without reason. The "middle of the week" day order shows Messiah came in 6 BC and is expected to come again in a very short time.

Now, if you intend to fact check all of this (and you really should), be aware that you can not use the modern Jewish calendar. That calendar came into existence around 300 AD and is a completely calculated calendar. It is not the same calendar as used during the Biblical era. Another concept which I didn't get into is the leap months - or intercalation cycle. The modern Jewish calendar uses a completely different intercalation cycle pattern than the proper Biblical calendar. This is something I have proven mathematically and confirmed with several ancient sources. Suffice to say, you will need to investigate and learn about differences between the two calendar methods in order to verify any of this for yourself. However, I have a book and many hours of videos which go through all of this for those that are interested in the subject.

 

[EarlyActs]

Anti-baryons (but also anti-leptons).

What do you think of 'sat' vs. 'asat' in Hindu beliefs. 'Sat' is usually 'formed' while 'asat' is the opposite.