Can the very elect be deceived?

[Rescued One]

I wonder.

 

[Hazelelponi]

No. Ultimately not. Jesus will lose none, we can be sure of this promise.

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." John 10:28

We are to be wary or guarding ourselves against deception and be wary of false prophets and the like, everything should be informed by all of scriptures, but ultimately no one will be lost, even if for a season they are on the wrong path.

When we are saved we are sealed by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the guarantor of our salvation. This actually does mean God would have to stop being God to actually lose a child of God. It is the 3rd person of the Trinity whose guaranteeing our salvation.

But as Paul indicates, I believe, this is no excuse to sin or for sin for indeed we have the greater responsibility before God, but we can be absolutely certain that in the end, salvation itself is His work and nothing of ourselves. We will be saved, but we are also on our guard against deception.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

No. Ultimately not. Jesus will lose none, we can be sure of this promise.

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." John 10:28

We are to be wary or guarding ourselves against deception and be wary of false prophets and the like, everything should be informed by all of scriptures, but ultimately no one will be lost, even if for a season they are on the wrong path.

When we are saved we are sealed by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the guarantor of our salvation. This actually does mean God would have to stop being God to actually lose a child of God. It is the 3rd person of the Trinity whose guaranteeing our salvation.

But as Paul indicates, I believe, this is no excuse to sin or for sin for indeed we have the greater responsibility before God, but we can be absolutely certain that in the end, salvation itself is His work and nothing of ourselves. We will be saved, but we are also on our guard against deception.

amen, so many passages state this.

we have eternal life. not conditional life

 

[fastfredy0]

Can the very elect be deceived?​

Yes.
Genesis 3: The serpent deceives Eve, leading to the fall of humanity.
Genesis 27: Jacob deceives his father to receive the blessing meant for Esau

By definition, the elect cannot be deceived in regards to adequate knowledge needed for saving faith.

 

[Josheb]

I wonder.

Good morning, everyone,

It depends on what you mean by "deceived."

We know, for example, Peter was deceived into thinking he could behave one way with Jewish converts to Christ and a different way with Gentile converts. He was deceived enough to think it would not pose a problem, deceived enough to miss his own hypocrisy, and so deceived it took the admonition of another apostle for the problem to be corrected. All of it happened after his Pentecost experience. Was it sufficient to remove his salvation? No.

 

[Rescued One]

These are interesting responses. The reason I ask:

Matthew 24:24
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

These are interesting responses. The reason I ask:

Matthew 24:24
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

I see this as saying the deception will be so great (signs and wonders in this time period) that they will have the ability to deceive the elect

Although God intervenes in my view

 

[fastfredy0]

Matthew 24:24
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Good point. The verse does not specify what specifically they are deceived about. We all get some of our doctrine 'screwed up' (deceived). i.e. baptism by full immersion or sprinkling, eschatology ...

 

[Rescued One]

I was deceived before I finally realized I was in a cult. When did I become an elect?

John 10
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

 

[fastfredy0]

When did I become an elect?

You've always been among the elect. The precise time when you were regenerated, I could not say. One is regenerated when one trusts in Jesus to save them. I am also of the opinion one must believer Christ is God.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I was deceived before I finally realized I was in a cult. When did I become an elect?

John 10
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

You were chosen before the foundation of the world. If you are Gods child.

God drew you to himself. maybe even kicking and screaming until you finally understood.

 

[Rescued One]

You've always been among the elect. The precise time when you were regenerated, I could not say.

Now I finally know the Reformed Baptist perspective!

 

[Rescued One]

You were chosen before the foundation of the world. If you are Gods child.

God drew you to himself. maybe even kicking and screaming until you finally understood.

I've heard the "kicking and screaming" view.

 

[Rescued One]

...One is regenerated when one trusts in Jesus to save them...

I was in my thirties.

 

[Carbon]

No. Ultimately not. Jesus will lose none, we can be sure of this promise.

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." John 10:28

We are to be wary or guarding ourselves against deception and be wary of false prophets and the like, everything should be informed by all of scriptures, but ultimately no one will be lost, even if for a season they are on the wrong path.

When we are saved we are sealed by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the guarantor of our salvation. This actually does mean God would have to stop being God to actually lose a child of God. It is the 3rd person of the Trinity whose guaranteeing our salvation.

But as Paul indicates, I believe, this is no excuse to sin or for sin for indeed we have the greater responsibility before God, but we can be absolutely certain that in the end, salvation itself is His work and nothing of ourselves. We will be saved, but we are also on our guard against deception.

Amen to that! I believe we can take Jesus at his word.

 

[Rescued One]

Amen to that! I believe we can take Jesus at his word.

I've been in every New England state.

 

[Eleanor]

You've always been among the elect. The precise time when you were regenerated, I could not say. One is regenerated when one trusts in Jesus to save them. I am also of the opinion one must believer Christ is God.

Actually, one trusts in Jesus to save them after one is sovereignly (Jn 3:6-8) regenerated (Jn 3:3-5).

The unregenerated spiritually dead cannot make a spiritual choice to believe.

 

[Arial]

These are interesting responses. The reason I ask:

Matthew 24:24
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Jesus does indicate that it is not possible. A true believer is one who God has placed in Christ and sealed them in Christ. So the believer may witness signs and wonders and believe they are real, even believe the false prophecy, but not to the degree that they are following a false Christ. Looking even farther into it, the elect will not forever follow a false Christ. God will bring them to the true Christ and in true faith.

 

[Arial]

I was deceived before I finally realized I was in a cult. When did I become an elect?

John 10
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

The elect do not "become elect". His sheep are always his sheep. But they are also born in Adam like all humanity. They are gathered to Christ through the preaching of the gospel.

 

[Arial]

I was in my thirties.

Me too. My brother came to Christ seven years before me and would not let me alone! But for seven years, I did not believe. And then one day I did. I knew it had to be true---- what the Bible said about Jesus and everything else that was in the Bible.