By Grace Alone

[donadams]

OK, so solus Christus is good but sola fide is bad?

No not really

Christ alone: John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 4:24
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Not Christ alone must also believe on the Father who sent Christ!

 

[prism]

Not Christ alone must also believe on the Father who sent Christ!

I believe ever Rome holds to the Athanasius Creed...One God.

 

[Ladodgers6]

It is by grace that we are saved
Never faith alone

I am waiting for you to address my questions first before I reply to yours. I have answered your questions, but you will not define your answers, only provide vague replies.

Please explain what does it mean to be saved by Grace?

 

[Soyeong]

Yes, someone who fulfills the Law with total obedience without a blemish of sin. How can convicted condemned sinner fulfill this? Because sinners are already condemned under the Law. The Gospel is the announcement of God's free gift of righteousness, given to those receive it through Faith Alone apart from works of the Law.

You're missing a huge piece here Soyeong. Where's the Promise? What is the Promise? Because the Law commands righteousness, right? But no flesh will be justified through the Law. Why not? Because we are condemned Law breakers, and have been exiled from God and placed under God's curse. The Law does not bring Life but death.

Whereas the Gospel gives life to us, and who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.​

This is the good news for the ungodly, not exhortation. an

To fulfill the law means "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo). So it is not required to have perfect obedience in order to fulfill the law, but rather any instance of someone correctly obeying what it instructs is fulfilling it. For example, according to Galatians 5:14, anyone who has ever loved their neighbor has fulfilled the entire law, so it refers to something that anyone can choose to do. God's law only condemns those who refuse to obey it. In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand and God's law is how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message. The experience of getting to practice the righteousness of God by obeying His law is the content of His free gift of righteousness.

In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's children as the stars in the heaven, to his children He will give all of these lands, and through his children all of the nations of the earth will be blessed because Abraham heard God's voice and guarded His charge, Hid commandments, His statutes, and His laws, so that is the promise.

Even if someone managed to live in perfect obedience to God's law, then they still would not earn their justification as a wage (Romans 4:1-5), so the reason why we do not earn our justification by obeying it is not because we fall short of perfect obedience, but because God's law was never given as a way to become righteous. In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, it says that God's law is not too difficult to obey and that obedience brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! So God's law brings life and it is only refusing to obey it that brings a curse, and I am going to keep repeating this as long as you keep rejecting what Scripture says.

 

[Ladodgers6]

To fulfill the law means "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo). So it is not required to have perfect obedience in order to fulfill the law, but rather any instance of someone correctly obeying what it instructs is fulfilling it.

Why are sinners in need of a Savior, Soyeong? Because the Law demands or commands Perfect Obedience. To say, it doesn't is to go against God's Holy Character. God demands to be perfect as he is perfect (Matt. 5:48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect).

The curse of the Law is the penalty that comes from breaking God's Law. The Law itself is not the curse, but it reveals the sinfulness of men and their inability to obey God perfectly. The curse of the Law is death, condemnation, punishment and everlasting exile from God, according to Genesis 2 & 3. The only way to escape the curse of the Law is to trust in the Promises of God, apart from the Law (human efforts; works-righteousness; legalism).

The Greek word for “redeem” in the Bible is exagorazo. It was a financial term that referred to the process of purchasing a slave’s freedom. When a slave was “redeemed,” he or she was no longer bound to the rules and expectations of a slave’s life. So, to be redeemed from the curse of the law means to be set free from its rules and regulations. In other words, those who are redeemed from the curse of the law are no longer required to observe the law’s commands as the Israelites were.
​

To be redeemed from the curse of the law also means that we no longer have to face the judgment of God. The law was perfect, and, as sinful beings, the Israelites could not perfectly observe the law. They were considered “cursed” whenever they disobeyed the law or failed to live up to its expectations. God’s judgment rested on all of those who did not live according to His ways. And since, according to Romans 2:14–15, God has placed the moral requirements of the law on all human hearts (not just the Israelites’), we are all under a curse and deserving of God’s judgment. “The wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23).

So, when Paul says in Galatians 3:13 that we are redeemed from the curse of the law, he means that we no longer will receive the judgment of God because of the way we fall short of His holy standards. In the same verse, Paul quotes from Deuteronomy 21:23 in referring to Jesus’ death on the cross. Through Jesus’ atoning work on the cross, He became that curse for us in order to receive the judgment of God on Himself. He died in our place so that we wouldn’t have to experience the wrath of God (see 1 Peter 2:24); instead, we could receive the gift of His Holy Spirit (see Galatians 3:14).

To be redeemed from the curse of the law means to be freed from followings its rules and regulations and from experiencing the judgment of God. Jesus Christ is the Redeemer, becoming a curse for us and purchasing us from the slavery of sin through His death on the cross.

For example, according to Galatians 5:14, anyone who has ever loved their neighbor has fulfilled the entire law, so it refers to something that anyone can choose to do.

Why does this comment remind me of the Rich Young Ruler? It's not about choosing to do it. It's about fulfilling it fully from a pure heart and mind. The Young Ruler asked Jesus, "What must I do to inherit eternal life? You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.’” 21 And he said, “All these I have kept from my youth.” This Young Ruler thought yeah I did that it was child's play, too easy, basically boasting about it. Jesus knew he hadn't kept them from his youth. But to illustrate this to the Rich Young Ruler that he hadn't, Jesus says to him, “One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me” (Luke 18). This would have fulfilled the entire Law, right Soyeong? And you know the rest.

So, I'll ask you, have you sold everything you have and distribute to the poor?​

 

[Soyeong]

Why are sinners in need of a Savior, Soyeong? Because the Law demands or commands Perfect Obedience. To say, it doesn't is to go against God's Holy Character. God demands to be perfect as he is perfect (Matt. 5:48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect).​

God's law does not demand perfect obedience, but rather it came with instructions for what to do when God's people sinned. Repentance doesn't change the fact that we have not had perfect obedience, so the fact that we can repent after we have sinned demonstrates that the law does not demand perfect obedience. In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, it says that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey and that obedience brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! So it was presented as a possibility and as a choice, not as the need for perfect obedience.

In Matthew 5:43-48, it is not speaking about having perfect obedience, but about having a love that is full or complete, where we do not just love those who love us, but also love our enemies.

The curse of the Law is the penalty that comes from breaking God's Law. The Law itself is not the curse, but it reveals the sinfulness of men and their inability to obey God perfectly. The curse of the Law is death, condemnation, punishment and everlasting exile from God, according to Genesis 2 & 3. The only way to escape the curse of the Law is to trust in the Promises of God, apart from the Law (human efforts; works-righteousness; legalism).​

In Deuteronomy 11:26-32, the difference between being under God's blessing or his curse is about choosing a mountain and climbing it, about choosing to follow God or to chase after other gods, not about whether or not we have perfect obedience. While everyone in the OT fell short of perfect obedience, everyone being under God's curse does not reflect the reality of what is recorded about those who served God, just those who chased after other gods.

In Genesis 18:19, Genesis 26:4-5, and Deuteronomy 30:16, the promise was made to Abraham and brought about because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his household to do that, and because they did that in obedience to it, so obedience to God's law is the way to trust in the promise. Legalism is a perversion of God's law that undermines both the intent of what God commanded and why He commanded it, which therefore leads to death just as assuredly as refusing to submit to it.

The Greek word for “redeem” in the Bible is exagorazo. It was a financial term that referred to the process of purchasing a slave’s freedom. When a slave was “redeemed,” he or she was no longer bound to the rules and expectations of a slave’s life. So, to be redeemed from the curse of the law means to be set free from its rules and regulations. In other words, those who are redeemed from the curse of the law are no longer required to observe the law’s commands as the Israelites were.​

In Deuteronomy 28, it describes the blessing of living in obedience to God's law and the curse for not living in obedience to it, so being set free from the curse of the law is being set free from the curse of not living in obedience to it so that we can be free to enjoy the blessing of living in obedience to it. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself to redeem us God's law, but in order to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe in the redemption that Jesus secured through the cross (Acts 21:20). In other words, the redemption that we have in Christ is the freedom from sin, not the freedom to sin.

​

To be redeemed from the curse of the law also means that we no longer have to face the judgment of God. The law was perfect, and, as sinful beings, the Israelites could not perfectly observe the law. They were considered “cursed” whenever they disobeyed the law or failed to live up to its expectations. God’s judgment rested on all of those who did not live according to His ways. And since, according to Romans 2:14–15, God has placed the moral requirements of the law on all human hearts (not just the Israelites’), we are all under a curse and deserving of God’s judgment. “The wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23).

Do you agree or disagree that we should walk in God's way?

We are under a curse that is unless we repent and return to obedience through faith in accordance with the Gospel.

So, when Paul says in Galatians 3:13 that we are redeemed from the curse of the law, he means that we no longer will receive the judgment of God because of the way we fall short of His holy standards. In the same verse, Paul quotes from Deuteronomy 21:23 in referring to Jesus’ death on the cross. Through Jesus’ atoning work on the cross, He became that curse for us in order to receive the judgment of God on Himself. He died in our place so that we wouldn’t have to experience the wrath of God (see 1 Peter 2:24); instead, we could receive the gift of His Holy Spirit (see Galatians 3:14).

To be redeemed from the curse of the law means to be freed from followings its rules and regulations and from experiencing the judgment of God. Jesus Christ is the Redeemer, becoming a curse for us and purchasing us from the slavery of sin through His death on the cross.

The fact that Jesus gave himself to pay the penalty for our sins should make us want to go and sin no more by living in obedience to God's law, not cause us to consider ourselves free to sin. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law.

Why does this comment remind me of the Rich Young Ruler? It's not about choosing to do it. It's about fulfilling it fully from a pure heart and mind. The Young Ruler asked Jesus, "What must I do to inherit eternal life? You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.’” 21 And he said, “All these I have kept from my youth.” This Young Ruler thought yeah I did that it was child's play, too easy, basically boasting about it. Jesus knew he hadn't kept them from his youth. But to illustrate to this Rich Young Ruler that he hadn't, Jesus says to him, “One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me” (Luke 18). This would have fulfilled the entire Law, right Soyeong? And you know the rest.

So, I'll ask you, have you sold everything you have and distribute to the poor?​

The Rich Young Ruler is an example of someone who obeyed some of God's laws, though he had a gap in his obedience that Jesus was addressing. He said nothing to boast, but was simply stating the reality of the situation. It does not state that Jesus knew that he hadn't kept them from his youth. It states that he became sad, but doesn't state what he decided to do. It also doesn't state that everyone should sell all that we have and give to the poor.

 

[Ladodgers6]

God's law does not demand perfect obedience, but rather it came with instructions for what to do when God's people sinned. Repentance doesn't change the fact that we have not had perfect obedience, so the fact that we can repent after we have sinned demonstrates that the law does not demand perfect obedience.

If God's Law does not demand perfect obedience, then why do we need forgiveness and repentance?

 

[Soyeong]

If God's Law does not demand perfect obedience, then why do we need forgiveness and repentance?

God's law requires obedience, which is why we need forgiveness and repentance, but if it required perfect obedience, then repentance wouldn't do us any good and there would be no forgiveness.

 

[donadams]

I believe ever Rome holds to the Athanasius Creed...One God.

With Three persons yes

 

[donadams]

I am waiting for you to address my questions first before I reply to yours. I have answered your questions, but you will not define your answers, only provide vague replies.

Please explain what does it mean to be saved by Grace?

Grace is the first impulse of salvation, the initial action by which God’s spirit draws us to faith in christ

 

[prism]

With Three persons yes

Perhaps this will help...

John 1:1,14,17
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [14] And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. [17] For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

In that sense it is grace alone/Christ alone.

 

[donadams]

Perhaps this will help...

John 1:1,14,17
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [14] And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. [17] For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

In that sense it is grace alone/Christ alone.

No cos our union with Christ in grace makes our actions salutary and meritorious before God, we participate with Christ

Phil 1:29

For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

What is lacking? Our participation

Thanks

 

[prism]

What is lacking? Our participation

Lacking in what? His atonement? How much participation until there is no more lack?

Colossians 2:9-10
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, [10] and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.

 

[donadams]

Lacking in what? His atonement? How much participation until there is no more lack?

Colossians 2:9-10
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, [10] and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.

We must suffer with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29 not called to believe alone but also to suffer for Christ’s sake.

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matt 24:13 endures “in Christ” to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

 

[Ladodgers6]

God's law requires obedience, which is why we need forgiveness and repentance, but if it required perfect obedience, then repentance wouldn't do us any good and there would be no forgiveness.

Soyeong, I don't know your back-round, but let me assure you that God demands perfect holiness without a blemish of sin. This is his command to be Holy. This is why Christ came in the flesh, born under the Law, to fulfill the Law with his perfect Law-Keeping and to condemn sin in the flesh. Christ is our Righteousness, the Free-Gift offered in the Gospel that is received through Faith Alone! This Soyeong is the good news. This is why we can be forgiven and repent. Christ is our Justification, Sanctificaton and Redemption. Understand this, then you will understand the Gospel.

John 17:19 And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth.

1 Cor. 1:30 And because of hime you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31 so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”​

 

[Soyeong]

Soyeong, I don't know your back-round, but let me assure you that God demands perfect holiness without a blemish of sin. This is his command to be Holy. This is why Christ came in the flesh, born under the Law, to fulfill the Law with his perfect Law-Keeping and to condemn sin in the flesh. Christ is our Righteousness, the Free-Gift offered in the Gospel that is received through Faith Alone! This Soyeong is the good news. This is why we can be forgiven and repent. Christ is our Justification, Sanctificaton and Redemption. Understand this, then you will understand the Gospel.

John 17:19 And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth.

1 Cor. 1:30 And because of hime you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31 so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”​

Repentance doesn't change the fact that we have not had perfect obedience, so if we needed to have perfect obedience, then repentance would not do us any good. Jesus needed to be sinless in order to die for our sins, but we do not need to die for anyone sins, so we do not need to be sinless. Christ expressed his righteousness through walking in obedience to God's law, so that is also the same way that we walk when he is our righteousness, which is the content of free gift of righteousness that is received through faith alone. The good news is that we get to repent and obey God's law (Matthew 4:15-23). Christ is the embodiment of God's word, so saying that he is our justification, sanctification, and redemption, is the same as saying that us embodying God's word through faith is our justification, sanctification, and redemption. We are sanctified in truth and God's law is truth (Psalms 119:142).

 

[Ladodgers6]

Repentance doesn't change the fact that we have not had perfect obedience, so if we needed to have perfect obedience, then repentance would not do us any good. Jesus needed to be sinless in order to die for our sins, but we do not need to die for anyone sins, so we do not need to be sinless. Christ expressed his righteousness through walking in obedience to God's law, so that is also the same way that we walk when he is our righteousness, which is the content of free gift of righteousness that is received through faith alone. The good news is that we get to repent and obey God's law (Matthew 4:15-23). Christ is the embodiment of God's word, so saying that he is our justification, sanctification, and redemption, is the same as saying that us embodying God's word through faith is our justification, sanctification, and redemption. We are sanctified in truth and God's law is truth (Psalms 119:142).

Repentance is the fruit of the Spirit, it is the result of our Justification in Christ through Faith Alone apart from works. Sanctification of the Saints or the good works of the believers flows from our Justification in Christ. We hold to the Promises of God that God in Christ fulfilled the perfect obedience of the Law for those who believe.

A man who clings to his own works will not be justified, only those who cling to Christ and his merits!​