Blasphemy

[Arial]

I believe I noted that that was my 'opinion'. Which for some reason if I do not write, you get upset. But though I did write it as my opinion, you still get upset

Tacking "my opinion" onto the bottom of a post full of false accusations about a person and insults does not make it not a false accusation and insult. You stated your opinions about other posters and stated it as fact. Even here you do when you say I am upset, when I am not. You frame it as though my issue is "opinions" instead of what the issue is. As though I consider it ok for me to state my opinion but you cannot. It is not presenting an opinion that I have cautioned you against. It is the condescending, presumptuous and judgmental opinions of the people you post to that you present. That is the issue.

With all due respect, you use the phrase 'as though it were fact' pretty losely. In other words, if you vehemently disagree with what someone may say, that phrase is likely to come up.

For example, see in bold above. You have determined that whenever I use that phrase it is based solely on my disagreeing with a person, expressing your opinion of me, and presenting it to the entire forum as fact. When in fact you would have to know the operation of my mind in order to even know that. Something you cannot know. And beginning a sentence with "all due respect" and then saying something disrespectful and untrue, does not make it respectful or make it become not a rule violation. Anymore than insulting someone and then saying it is only your opinion makes it not an insult.

I said in post #(4) that I don't like to hear or see blasphemy. But one must remember that it is against God.

The whole reason it is upsetting to us is because it is against the God we know and love!

 

[Hazelelponi]

believe I noted that that was my 'opinion'. Which for some reason if I do not write, you get upset

Because you are being rude. You just are. Have some manners at least.

I have been saved 10 years, just barely more by a couple months. I was Muslim prior to that, I was personally more liberal, but a practicing Muslim nonetheless. I have lifelong disability at the hands of my ex husband. (He was NOT a liberal Muslim).

I am here on this forum to get away from political contentions found elsewhere and rest from the evils of the world and learn more about the faith I was given, amongst my fellow believers of that faith.

This looks a nice place for me to do that, and I was specifically invited here for this cause. (God knew, even if he didn't, that I needed somewhere and I needed it then).

I know we all have different personalities this is mine. All people are asking, is that you respect the general environment of restful learning, discussion, and peace.

You don't have to be rude to people. Take Christ as your head and submit to the Spirit. You're not always going to know how to express yourself, but we can all learn how to do so appropriately together.

 

[Mr GLee]

Defining blasphemy, I would ask. What are some of things that constitute blasphemy seeing there are two kinds? And how do they work together as one?

One. . . . Blasphemy. . . Against the temporal things seen Son of man

Two . . . . Blasphemy. . . Against the invisible eternal things of Christ, the husband

Matthew 12:31-32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Mathew 16 provides a commentary.

Peter coming from the Pharisees with Sadducees the religion oral traditions of men .Peter was used as serial denier 4 times and was forgiven.

In Mathew 16 Satan the father of lies (the spirit of the antichrist) seduced Peter and used Peter as a false apostle', false prophet, bringing oral traditions of dying mankind.

Mathew 16 :22;23 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto Thee.; But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

The lying spirit rebuked the Holy Father and forbid Jesus the Son of man from doing the will of the Father.

Peter was forgiven of denying the Lord, committing blasphemy against the Son of Man Jesus seen That 33-year window of forgiveness closed when Jesus the Son of man left.

Today no forgiveness against blasphemy of the invisible Holy Father, call no man Holy Father ,(Pope) on earth. One is in heaven .

 

[Arial]

Because you are being rude. You just are. Have some manners at least.

I have been saved 10 years, just barely more by a couple months. I was Muslim prior to that, I was personally more liberal, but a practicing Muslim nonetheless. I have lifelong disability at the hands of my ex husband. (He was NOT a liberal Muslim).

I am here on this forum to get away from political contentions found elsewhere and rest from the evils of the world and learn more about the faith I was given, amongst my fellow believers of that faith.

This looks a nice place for me to do that, and I was specifically invited here for this cause. (God knew, even if he didn't, that I needed somewhere and I needed it then).

I know we all have different personalities this is mine. All people are asking, is that you respect the general environment of restful learning, discussion, and peace.

You don't have to be rude to people. Take Christ as your head and submit to the Spirit. You're not always going to know how to express yourself, but we can all learn how to do so appropriately together.

Well said! You display a very soft heart. You feel like crying, hurt in your heart etc, when you hear the Lord blasphemed and it is no wonder considering what you say here and what He reached down and rescued you from. How precious you are in his sight. Your own personality and the depth of your love for God, your recognition of who He is and what He has done for you, all contribute to the reaction.

I, on the other hand, become angry at blasphemy, even though indeed it does hurt in my heart. Different personality. Rescued, yes, and from the depths, but different from your life experience.

And you ask questions that are sincere, and do so with a genuine willingness to listen and to learn if there is something to be learned. That is very rare on forums. It should not be met by rudeness and judgement, as though you should change who you are, who God made you to be. Not only do you ask questions when you have them, but you offer much, not only from the knowledge that you have been given, but in the very way in which you present it and interact with others. We have a great deal to learn from you and I am sure I am not alone in gratitude for God having sent you to us.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Well said! You display a very soft heart. You feel like crying, hurt in your heart etc, when you hear the Lord blasphemed and it is no wonder considering what you say here and what He reached down and rescued you from. How precious you are in his sight. Your own personality and the depth of your love for God, your recognition of who He is and what He has done for you, all contribute to the reaction.

I, on the other hand, become angry at blasphemy, even though indeed it does hurt in my heart. Different personality. Rescued, yes, and from the depths, but different from your life experience.

And you ask questions that are sincere, and do so with a genuine willingness to listen and to learn if there is something to be learned. That is very rare on forums. It should not be met by rudeness and judgement, as though you should change who you are, who God made you to be. Not only do you ask questions when you have them, but you offer much, not only from the knowledge that you have been given, but in the very way in which you present it and interact with others. We have a great deal to learn from you and I am sure I am not alone in gratitude for God having sent you to us.

You made me cry... I love you too, all of you.

I think you're a lot like me, just a different life. Your super easy to talk to, like an actual sister.

Awesome isn't it?

 

[Arial]

You made me cry... I love you too, all of you.

I think you're a lot like me, just a different life. Your super easy to talk to, like an actual sister.

Awesome isn't it?

It is awesome! Yes, we seem to be a lot alike in many ways. I think our ways of processing and thinking about the things of God are very similar. And yet we are different in other ways. I have always survived pain and betrayal with anger. Many times it has gotten me up off the floor when everything looked hopeless, and long before I became a Christian. It is a hard habit to break. Or at least the way in which that anger is directed. I'm learning. Surprisingly, being on forums has helped me grow in that area a lot. My go to was always verbal attack, sharp and directed with precision like a sword. I was once told that I used words like a knife. Which I was proud of at the time, but not anymore.

The fighting spirit that I have been given is good and is meant to serve a purpose with God, I think, though I have no idea what that purpose is. I only know that if I have it, it must be used under submission to God and for his glory, not abused.

 

[EarlyActs]

We should shed light, not heat, about it.

 

[Arial]

We should shed light, not heat, about it.

Not sure what you mean. What do you mean by "heat".

 

[Deleted member 559]

Romans 12:9 - Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

There's nothing wrong with feeling angry, especially when we feel the need to defend what is Holy. At the same time, I always have to remember that there is a right way and a wrong way to deal with that anger.

Ephesians 4:26-27 - Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil.

 

[QVQ]

Blasphemy
When I was an atheist, interested in modeling all claims of supernatural, I read a book on witchcraft.
There was a ritual where a person goes to a grave and recites a corrupted version of the Lord's prayer to call up the devil.
"All you have to do" Why not? Harmless, just a joke or if not, might gain some knowledge or powers.
Just reading that, I couldn't read any further.
It made my skin crawl. It made me sick to my stomach and I threw the book away.
Even in my state of "scientific" atheism, where I did not believe in any spiritual, the word "Blasphemy" came to mind.
I could not even consider that, it was so repulsive even though it was so harmless the way it was presented.
IT seemed a crossroad and that to me is blasphemy.

 

[Arial]

Romans 12:9 - Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

There's nothing wrong with feeling angry, especially when we feel the need to defend what is Holy. At the same time, I always have to remember that there is a right way and a wrong way to deal with that anger.

Ephesians 4:26-27 - Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil.

Interestingly, I was watching one of Sproul's teaching videos on You Tube this morning. It was titled The Glory of God and I am not sure why, as it seemed to be to be dealing with another subject. But he touched on a point of wisdom that I could relate to this conversation. And another comment made by @Hazelelponi. A question really, that I will paraphrase as "How far is too far?" in our debates and discussions.

He told a story about some manager who was asked what his management strategy was. The manager replied, "I treat all people the same." That sounds good and is good if by that one means as equals. But that is not what was meant. Not all people are the same and if we follow the example of how Jesus interacted with people, we see he treated them how they were. Some----those marginalized and avoided, the Samaritans, the prostitutes, the drunkards, the tax collectors, the gluttons--- by the religious folks (Sadducees and Pharisees) he treated with kindness and gentleness. The S and P however he did not. He called them hypocrites, white washed tombs full of dead men's bones, sons of Satan, sons of hell. Now, I am not suggesting in any way shape or form we are ever to speak to anyone like that---it violates the rules the forums and God's, and we are not Jesus and do not have that authority.. My point is, we deal with people the way they are and according to their need, and according to the degree of the offense against the gospel (not ourselves). But we do not treat everyone with gentleness if firmness is necessary. Contending for the faith is important and there are times when contend is what we do. The Greek word translated contend earnestly in Jude 1:3 is a wrestling term and also included words.
Epagonizesthai:

biblehub.com/greek/1864.htm

That is worth a read.

 

[EarlyActs]

Not sure what you mean. What do you mean by "heat".

That is an idiom that means that we often charge an issue with emotion, with something we are angry about, but that is not a clear dispassionate explanation. Compare 'impassioned' vs 'dispassionate.'

 

[Arial]

That is an idiom that means that we often charge an issue with emotion, with something we are angry about, but that is not a clear dispassionate explanation. Compare 'impassioned' vs 'dispassionate.'

There are other emotions besides anger.

Impassionate can mean with strong feelings or dispassionate, without feelings. So in the expression you gave concerning blasphemy "We should shed light on it not heat." and giving this definition of what you mean by heat, doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I think I know what you mean, but the wording is inaccurate so does not at all explain what you mean, if you simply mean that we should not respond to another with anger.

It would apply if one were attempting to point out to someone what was wrong with their blasphemy. In that case, yes light should be given rather than a purely emotional response of anger. At the same time it could be quite full of passion.

However, the thread concerns personal reactions to hearing or reading blasphemy.

 

[EarlyActs]

There are other emotions besides anger.

Impassionate can mean with strong feelings or dispassionate, without feelings. So in the expression you gave concerning blasphemy "We should shed light on it not heat." and giving this definition of what you mean by heat, doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I think I know what you mean, but the wording is inaccurate so does not at all explain what you mean, if you simply mean that we should not respond to another with anger.

It would apply if one were attempting to point out to someone what was wrong with their blasphemy. In that case, yes light should be given rather than a purely emotional response of anger. At the same time it could be quite full of passion.

However, the thread concerns personal reactions to hearing or reading blasphemy.

Did you mean I’m passionate can be both of those things—full of or without ?

 

[Arial]

Did you mean I’m passionate can be both of those things—full of or without ?

No. I meant what I said.

 

[Mr GLee]

I would offer our concern should be above emotions.

Gods knows as a fallen dying race anger is present.

Two different translations. One freeing up as if we have permission. Be angry a commandment. The other recognizing our fallen state in your anger.

Ephesians 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

Ephaisians 4:26 NIV “In your anger do not sin”: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry,

The loving commandment below .

James 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

It would seem the serial murderer takes on the Be Angry having no control of the sun go down, children of wrath

 

[EarlyActs]

Ho

No. I meant what I said.

How can an expression of a view be both ? The view could be expressed way, but each expression is either with or without feeling. My point was that it is best to shed light ( understanding) without the heat (of our feeling of resentment or disdain).

 

[Arial]

Ho

How can an expression of a view be both ? The view could be expressed way, but each expression is either with or without feeling. My point was that it is best to shed light ( understanding) without the heat (of our feeling of resentment or disdain).

Good advice. You asked:

Did you mean I’m passionate can be both of those things—full of or without ?

I said, "No I meant what I said." Which was:

Impassionate can mean with strong feelings or dispassionate, without feelings.

I said that because you asked me if I knew the difference between the two words.

 

[Josheb]

Why does blasphemy make me sick, upset, etc etc? (Makes my heart hurt, makes me feel nauseous, makes me want to cry)

This doesn't seem like it's normal for most people, am I broken?

Most people don't seem like it's any important thing to their heart or... I don't know.

The longer I'm saved the more I feel it, not the less.

That depends on what you mean by "sick". I you mean a physiological sensation* that is perceived as illness (and not merely some degree of temporary discomfort), then a Christian's body should not be attacking itself because the eyes observe disdain for God. Jesus had a fairly forceful response to blasphemy when his Spirit-driven works were attributed to the devil. However, there is no report he became "sick." That being said, our disdain will be "felt" or, more accurately, sensated* in our body but that is not the same as illness. That is the normal and healthy response the holy has to the ungodly.

That being said, how is it anyone here would know the answer to that question? What does scripture say about what you have described? Where might you find the interpretation of what is read be found in the example of a Bible person (in other words, did Paul become sick when living among the Ephesians or Corinthians?)? I recommend this sort of a review because it's like something like Pr. 23:7 KJV or Lk. 6:45 is at play. In secular terms it would be expressed as change the way you think, and you will change the way you feel (the word "act" is usually put in that sentence, but the fact is our thoughts and emotions function dependently on one another.












* Physiological sensations are different that emotions but in English we use the word "feel" for both conditions. We say, "I feel nauseous," or "I feel hungry," when the hunger nausea and hunger are somatic experiences, not emotional ones. We are sensing our nausea and hunger. Affect, or emotions are conditions like joy, sadness, anger, fear, disgust, and surprise. These do not originate in the musculature, skins, or other areas of the body outside the brain, but they are sensed in those parts. To simplify it, the body senses what the affect feels. So, we say we feel clammy or tense when we feel scared. Statistically speaking, men tend to have a more difficult time sorting these things out than women but it's very common for the sensate function and the affect function to get confused because we are not raised to discriminate between the two or taught the appropriate language to express either.
.

 

[makesends]

Hazelelponi said:
Why does blasphemy make me sick, upset, etc etc? (Makes my heart hurt, makes me feel nauseous, makes me want to cry)

That depends on what you mean by "sick". I you mean a physiological sensation* that is perceived as illness (and not merely some degree of temporary discomfort), then a Christian's body should not be attacking itself because the eyes observe disdain for God. Jesus had a fairly forceful response to blasphemy when his Spirit-driven works were attributed to the devil. However, there is no report he became "sick." That being said, our disdain will be "felt" or, more accurately, sensated* in our body but that is not the same as illness. That is the normal and healthy response the holy has to the ungodly.

That being said, how is it anyone here would know the answer to that question? What does scripture say about what you have described? Where might you find the interpretation of what is read be found in the example of a Bible person (in other words, did Paul become sick when living among the Ephesians or Corinthians?)? I recommend this sort of a review because it's like something like Pr. 23:7 KJV or Lk. 6:45 is at play. In secular terms it would be expressed as change the way you think, and you will change the way you feel (the word "act" is usually put in that sentence, but the fact is our thoughts and emotions function dependently on one another.

* Physiological sensations are different that emotions but in English we use the word "feel" for both conditions. We say, "I feel nauseous," or "I feel hungry," when the hunger nausea and hunger are somatic experiences, not emotional ones. We are sensing our nausea and hunger. Affect, or emotions are conditions like joy, sadness, anger, fear, disgust, and surprise. These do not originate in the musculature, skins, or other areas of the body outside the brain, but they are sensed in those parts. To simplify it, the body senses what the affect feels. So, we say we feel clammy or tense when we feel scared. Statistically speaking, men tend to have a more difficult time sorting these things out than women but it's very common for the sensate function and the affect function to get confused because we are not raised to discriminate between the two or taught the appropriate language to express either.
.

When my brother takes an engine out of a car, repairs it, and puts it back in, in less than a day, he "makes me sick".

My Dad was helping my nephew make something, and, because of his bi-focals, cut a finger off with his chop saw. My nephew got physically sick.


We do have a few instances in Scripture that sound related to the idea.

In Acts 16:18 Paul was distressed (greatly troubled, annoyed) by the demon-possessed little slave girl.

In 2 Sam. 13 Amnon "made himself ill" in his infatuation with Tamar. Ironically, a few verses later, his attendants advise him to "pretend to be ill".

I'm guessing Saul's daughter Michal thought of David as, "You make me sick, dancing in the streets"