Biblical hijinks!

[donadams]

Biblical hijinks!

Contex: all scripture is inspired, nothing about context, or exegesis.

Selective context:

I have been presented with eph 2:8 alone without context more than any other verse!

It’s ok for one side to use these tactics no one else better try it!

Scripture out of context or without proper study is catholic, scripture in context or with proper study is Protestant.

According to context Ex 20 only presents 9 Commandments!

Jesus Christ is “The way” only because of a partial verse completely “out of context”!

These are stratagems to Shutting down the opposing view.

Wall o text another stratagem to say
I don’t have to believe it!

I don’t have to believe
I don’t have to
I don’t have
I don’t
I
I I I I I
All about me and my pride!

I’m not accusing you or anyone here, only saying we should all examine our motives to see if we are operating from virtues or vices.

Pride or humility!

Christians must practice the supernatural virtues of Jesus Christ especially charity and humility!

Questions & comments
It’s all good!

Forum: free and open exchange of ideas, everyone has the right to share and defend their faith, especially “thee faith”! Jude 1:3
(Contend for the faith)

 

[donadams]

How does the context Jn chapter 11 make Jesus not be the “resurrection and the life”???

Since he is the resurrection and the life only by a partial verse completely out of context with the rest of the chapter!

Jn 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Thanks

 

[donadams]

Ten Commandments

Ex 20

Scripture has no list (1, 2, 3, etc.) of the Ten Commandments

According to subject matter or context:

First commandment: ex 20:2-6
One God

Second commandment: ex 20:7
God’s name

Third commandment: ex 20:8-11
God’s sabbath

Fourth commandment: ex 20:12
Parents

Fifth commandment: ex 20:13
Murder

Sixth commandment: ex 20:14
Adultery

Seventh commandment: ex 20:15
Theft

Eighth commandment: ex 20:16
Lying

Ninth commandment: ex 20:17
Coveting

Separating the two about coveting makes sense and makes Ten Commandments

 

[donadams]

If “scripture is the only authority “ then there can be no authority to interpret the scripture and give authentic meaning!

Cannot always know the meaning from text.

Examples:

“No Hurry”

Does that mean “no hurry” I can’t wait? Or “no hurry” I have plenty of time? Which is it?

And the possible meanings are completely opposite of each other!

“A fat sandwich man”

Does that mean a fat man who makes sandwiches? Or a man who makes fat sandwiches?

Only the one who wrote it knows which is the authentic meaning or interpretation!

Thanks

 

[atpollard]

How does the context Jn chapter 11 make Jesus not be the “resurrection and the life”???

Since he is the resurrection and the life only by a partial verse completely out of context with the rest of the chapter!

Jn 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Thanks

John 11 (the context) does not make Jesus NOT BE "the resurrection and the life" (John 11:25). What it does do is provide context to the statement to help us understand what it means to be "the resurrection and the life".

Here is the Merriam-Webster definition of "resurrection" (noun):

1a: the rising of Christ from the dead​

1b: the rising again to life of all the human dead before the final judgment
1c: the state of one risen from the dead
2 : resurgence, revival​

3: a spiritualization of thought : material belief that yields to spiritual understanding​

Jesus did not have ALL of those in mind. Context helps clarify what Jesus meant (but will not abrogate the words).

 

[atpollard]

If “scripture is the only authority “ then there can be no authority to interpret the scripture and give authentic meaning!

The rule is that "Scripture interprets scripture". [Most things that are unclear are stated more clearly somewhere else in scripture, allowing the choice from among possible meanings to be known.] Some things are not (so we must accept that as a fact.)

Cannot always know the meaning from text.

Examples:

Those examples are not from scripture.

 

[donadams]

The rule is that "Scripture interprets scripture". [Most things that are unclear are stated more clearly somewhere else in scripture, allowing the choice from among possible meanings to be known.] Some things are not (so we must accept that as a fact.)


Those examples are not from scripture.

What rule? Where is that written?

An example is not required to be scripture to be an example!

They are text and you cannot possibly interpret them correctly but only guess!

Thanks

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Ten Commandments

Ex 20

Scripture has no list (1, 2, 3, etc.) of the Ten Commandments

According to subject matter or context:

First commandment: ex 20:2-6
One God

Second commandment: ex 20:7
God’s name

Third commandment: ex 20:8-11
God’s sabbath

Fourth commandment: ex 20:12
Parents

Fifth commandment: ex 20:13
Murder

Sixth commandment: ex 20:14
Adultery

Seventh commandment: ex 20:15
Theft

Eighth commandment: ex 20:16
Lying

Ninth commandment: ex 20:17
Coveting

Separating the two about coveting makes sense and makes Ten Commandments

It looks like you've combined the commandment for Monotheism with the one for Iconoclasm.

I think Iconoclasm stands on its own. Note that the commandment doesn't just prohibit the manufacture of idols to foreign gods. It also prohibits them from creating images of God Himself, or bowing before any image. That last part is more than just a support for Monotheism.

-Jarrod

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

The rule is that "Scripture interprets scripture."

That's why they taught me, too. And it isn't without merits, but... as I get older, I find that this rule doesn't always yield positive results.

There seems to be a lot of energy expended in attempts to harmonize certain parts of Scripture with others, when they really don't fit together.

-Jarrod

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

And the possible meanings are completely opposite of each other!

“A fat sandwich man”

Does that mean a fat man who makes sandwiches? Or a man who makes fat sandwiches?

Only the one who wrote it knows which is the authentic meaning or interpretation!

Thanks

This is true in English, but not in New Testament Greek. Greek words must match in case, number, and gender when describing another word, so it is virtually always apparent which word is being described.

 

[atpollard]

What rule? Where is that written?

right here ...

“scripture is the only authority “

See, you even quoted it!

 

[atpollard]

It looks like you've combined the commandment for Monotheism with the one for Iconoclasm.

I think Iconoclasm stands on its own. Note that the commandment doesn't just prohibit the manufacture of idols to foreign gods. It also prohibits them from creating images of God Himself, or bowing before any image. That last part is more than just a support for Monotheism.

-Jarrod

I considered arguing about the count for 10 commandments but decided that it was pointless since God gave them 613 commandments with a warning to obey ALL of them. It seemed like "straining gnats and swallowing camels".

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

I considered arguing about the count for 10 commandments but decided that it was pointless since God gave them 613 commandments with a warning to obey ALL of them. It seemed like "straining gnats and swallowing camels".

The count isn't important, but I enjoy stumping for iconoclasm. It seems to be an overlooked commandment in today's churches.

 

[Soyeong]

Biblical hijinks!

Contex: all scripture is inspired, nothing about context, or exegesis.

Selective context:

I have been presented with eph 2:8 alone without context more than any other verse!

James 2:10 is by far the most common verses that has presented to me alone out context.

In Ephesians 2:8-10, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so while Paul denied that we become saved as the result of our works lest anyone should boast, doing good works is nevertheless intrinsically part of our salvation from not doing good works.

It’s ok for one side to use these tactics no one else better try it!

Scripture out of context or without proper study is catholic, scripture in context or with proper study is Protestant.

That's a tad bit biased. For example, when Jesus said that this is my body, it's not about context, but about whether we think that he was speaking literally or figuratively.

According to context Ex 20 only presents 9 Commandments!

There are 10 Commandments (Exodus 34:28, Deuteronomy 4:13), though there are different ways that different groups have numbered them. "I am the Lord your God" is the 1st Commandment that parallels the same principle as the 6th Commandment.

Jesus Christ is “The way” only because of a partial verse completely “out of context”!

Indeed, when Jesus said that, he was speaking about a concept of which his audience was aware. There has never been another person whose teachings were more thoroughly rooted in the OT.

These are stratagems to Shutting down the opposing view.

Wall o text another stratagem to say
I don’t have to believe it!

I don’t have to believe
I don’t have to
I don’t have
I don’t
I
I I I I I
All about me and my pride!

I’m not accusing you or anyone here, only saying we should all examine our motives to see if we are operating from virtues or vices.

Pride or humility!

Christians must practice the supernatural virtues of Jesus Christ especially charity and humility!

Questions & comments
It’s all good!

Forum: free and open exchange of ideas, everyone has the right to share and defend their faith, especially “thee faith”! Jude 1:3
(Contend for the faith)

Indeed.

 

[Josheb]

Biblical hijinks!

Contex: all scripture is inspired, nothing about context, or exegesis.

Selective context:

I have been presented with eph 2:8 alone without context more than any other verse!

It’s ok for one side to use these tactics no one else better try it!

Scripture out of context or without proper study is catholic, scripture in context or with proper study is Protestant.

According to context Ex 20 only presents 9 Commandments!

Jesus Christ is “The way” only because of a partial verse completely “out of context”!

These are stratagems to Shutting down the opposing view.

Wall o text another stratagem to say
I don’t have to believe it!

I don’t have to believe
I don’t have to
I don’t have
I don’t
I
I I I I I
All about me and my pride!

I’m not accusing you or anyone here, only saying we should all examine our motives to see if we are operating from virtues or vices.

Pride or humility!

Christians must practice the supernatural virtues of Jesus Christ especially charity and humility!

Questions & comments
It’s all good!

Forum: free and open exchange of ideas, everyone has the right to share and defend their faith, especially “thee faith”! Jude 1:3
(Contend for the faith)

Complete foolishness.

All scripture is inspired and therefore is its own context. Scripture is an ongoing revelation from God so it reveals itself. To say in one sentence, "nothing about context," and then in the next appeal to context is self-contradictory. It has nothing to do with catholicism. Using one's "I" to speak about oneself for one's own views is much better than talking about others and telling others what they think, how they should believe, and it avoids the problem of insinuation. To complain against the "I" and in the very next sentence states, "I am not..." is, again, self-contradictory.

Poorly written op posted in the wrong board.

 

[atpollard]

The count isn't important, but I enjoy stumping for iconoclasm. It seems to be an overlooked commandment in today's churches.

Have you seen the artwork of Yaacov Agam? He is an orthodox Jewish "sculptor" ... but since he is forbiden to create ant "graven images" he invented kinetic geometric art that uses optics (prisms) to create moving geometric patterns. As you move, the appearance of the art changes.

Yaacov Agam Artwork (Google Search)

 

[Arial]

If “scripture is the only authority “ then there can be no authority to interpret the scripture and give authentic meaning!

If the scripture is its own authority then it needs no other authority to interpret the scripture in order to give it authentic meaning. When God says something He says what He means and He means what He says. People may arrive at many different interpretations but that does not mean that there are many. People are fallible. God and His word are not.

Does that mean “no hurry” I can’t wait? Or “no hurry” I have plenty of time? Which is it?

That is where context comes in. You are defeating your own purpose. Let's take an example from scripture. One you used in another forum to show that the Catholic priesthood was valid.
Luke 22:29 "and I assign to you, as my Father assigned to me, a kingdom"

That of course is the middle of a sentence. Here is the whole sentence which begins in verse 28 and ends in verse 30:
"You are those who have stayed with me in my trials, and I assign to you, as my Father assigned to me, a kingdom, that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

It says nothing about priests, but rather a kingdom. And Jesus was talking to the the disciples who had been with Him and stayed with Him through all His trials from the beginning. No one else.

Hijinked and hoodwinked.

 

[donadams]

John 11 (the context) does not make Jesus NOT BE "the resurrection and the life" (John 11:25). What it does do is provide context to the statement to help us understand what it means to be "the resurrection and the life".

Here is the Merriam-Webster definition of "resurrection" (noun):

1a: the rising of Christ from the dead​

1b: the rising again to life of all the human dead before the final judgment​

1c: the state of one risen from the dead​

2 : resurgence, revival​

3: a spiritualization of thought : material belief that yields to spiritual understanding​

Jesus did not have ALL of those in mind. Context helps clarify what Jesus meant (but will not abrogate the words).

They said out of context and you have a “different meaning” or different doctrine” who knows
Thanks

 

[donadams]

I do see how other verses can give more info or detail but there is no actual requirement for it!

Example

Eph 1:3 “our”
Eph 1:4 “us” also in 1:5 & 1:6
Eph 1:7 “we”

Who is the “our” “us” & “we”?

Eph 1:1 the saints of course

Thanks

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Have you seen the artwork of Yaacov Agam? He is an orthodox Jewish "sculptor" ... but since he is forbiden to create ant "graven images" he invented kinetic geometric art that uses optics (prisms) to create moving geometric patterns. As you move, the appearance of the art changes.

Yaacov Agam Artwork (Google Search)

Pretty cool... and way out of my price range!