Belief, a condition or evidence?

[ReverendRV]

Relevance?

I mean many things could be added to the List of Solas. For instance, Brightframe seems to want Justification at the Cross to be a Sola; in exchange for Sola Fide...

I guess I could have said this up front, instead of expecting you to read my Mind...

But you probably don't like reading the Funnies.

Anyway; the Solas are Solas for a reason. Why is the Redemptive Work of Christ, not a Sola; as Brightframe seems to want? Why did the fathers exalt Sola Fide instead?

 

[Josheb]

Brother, why do you think the fathers gave us Sola Fide, instead of giving us Sola Fide and Sola Elecktos?

I'm not sure I'm understanding the inquiry because I don't know anyone who espouses sola elektos and my prior post was not specifically about the doctrine of sola fide. That doctrine does not preclude or otherwise exclude the point the previous poster was making. The Reformation understood salvation by grace to be critical; that's what makes a Protestant a Protestant (whether Reformed or just merely reformed ). It is good, right, and true to say we are justified by grace..... BUT that does not mean we not are also justified by other means, and that is the point I was endeavoring to make in my prior post.

Justification is not monolithic.


And I will also take this opportunity to pre-emptively address another mistake commonly occurring in this line of discourse: 1) there is a distinction between salvation and justification and 2) nowhere does scripture ever state we are "saved by faith". We are saved by grace. We are saved through faith. We are justified by faith. Conflating or otherwise confusing these terms is a mistake.

• Saved by grace.
• Saved through faith.
• Saved for works.
• Justified by grace.
• Justified by blood.
• Justified by faith.

Hope that clears up some things.

 

[ReverendRV]

I'm not sure I'm understanding the inquiry because I don't know anyone who espouses sola elektos and my prior post was not specifically about the doctrine of sola fide. That doctrine does not preclude or otherwise exclude the point the previous poster was making. The Reformation understood salvation by grace to be critical; that's what makes a Protestant a Protestant (whether Reformed or just merely reformed ). It is good, right, and true to say we are justified by grace..... BUT that does not mean we not are also justified by other means, and that is the point I was endeavoring to make in my prior post.

Justification is not monolithic.


And I will also take this opportunity to pre-emptively address another mistake commonly occurring in this line of discourse: 1) there is a distinction between salvation and justification and 2) nowhere does scripture ever state we are "saved by faith". We are saved by grace. We are saved through faith. We are justified by faith. Conflating or otherwise confusing these terms is a mistake.

• Saved by grace.
• Saved through faith.
• Saved for works.
• Justified by grace.
• Justified by blood.
• Justified by faith.

Hope that clears up some things.

Yes!

 

[makesends]

I encourage a study of the Bible's mentions of justification because justification does not occur once and only by one means. Scripture states things like the Romans 3:24 justification by grace (Tit. 3:7), but it also states we are justified by Christ's blood, and elsewhere states we are justified by faith (Rom. 3:28, 5:1; Gal 2:16). Justification comes by diverse means. Not one of them are by works (Gal. 2:16) absent faith (Jms. 2:21-25), or the Law (Gal. 5:4).

I tend to look at the different mentions of 'justification' as one of [at least] two different justifications, much as I do 'sanctification' and 'God's will'.

 

[Josheb]

I tend to look at the different mentions of 'justification' as one of [at least] two different justifications, much as I do 'sanctification' and 'God's will'.

Yep. No false dichotomies. Cohesive, not confounding or confused.

 

[brightfame52]

Belief, faith is an evidence of Justification, not a condition. For Justification is said to be given freely by and through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, meaning His death Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Thats word freely the greek word dōrean:
gratuitously (literally or figuratively):—without a cause, freely, for naught, in vain.

Now if this be true, how can faith or believing be a condition ?

 

[makesends]

Thats word freely the greek word dōrean:
gratuitously (literally or figuratively):—without a cause, freely, for naught, in vain.

'gratuitously' can also derive, "without reference to any condition or worthiness", hence, 'without cause'. It doesn't mean 'uncaused' (not that you said that, but just in case...)

 

[brightfame52]

'gratuitously' can also derive, "without reference to any condition or worthiness", hence, 'without cause'. It doesn't mean 'uncaused' (not that you said that, but just in case...)

The meritorious cause is in the verse, the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, meaning His death ! Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

 

[makesends]

The meritorious cause is in the verse, the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, meaning His death ! Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Not by merit of the recipient of Grace.

 

[brightfame52]

Not by merit of the recipient of Grace.

By Christs death, the ones He died for are Justified, they did nothing, in fact they were ungodly sinners when Justified, hence by grace. You understand now ?

 

[makesends]

By Christs death, the ones He died for are Justified, they did nothing, in fact they were ungodly sinners when Justified, hence by grace. You understand now ?

Understand what? You imply there was something I didn't understand.