Are Tongues For Today?

[ChristB4us]

Red Baker

I'll pass on this subject for now, since it is not part of the thread, but it would be a good subject to discuss as to why folks spoke in tongues during the reformation period going from Judaism to Christ's religion of the NT, yet, it is not for us in our day, ( or, I should say, not needed ) and surely, not a sign of being filled with the Spirit of God, as the Pentecostals, and their cousins, the four gospel, etc., ignorantly and blindly teach~that being said, it would be a rare occurrence if it is needed in our day, but if it was, then it would follow the biblical pattern in 1st Corinthians 14~and if so, then I for one would not forbid it.

The issue I have with tongues today is how many are claiming that it is "also" for private use because it does not come with interpretation. They wish to assert that all the gifts of the Spirit are for the assembly, "except for tongues".

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many.

19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

The streamline Pentecostal/Charismatic churches broke off in different factions from the Azusa Street Revival of 1906-1909 as they can trace their roots back to there, but I deem it the focal point for how the wolf scatter the sheep.

The Azusa Street Revival placed an emphasis on the baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues. There were various signs and wonders happening there where alcoholics were experiencing deliverance, but it was noted by newspaper reporter that when the phenomenon died out, they went back to alcohol. There was a phenomenon called being drunk in the Holy Spirit that was happening there. One can surmise that the alcoholics just exchange one form of drunkenness for another for why they went back to alcohol when it was not happening any more.

The native American Indians took to getting drunk by alcohol because it reminded them when they were communing with the "Great Spirit".

Some revivals are claiming drug users have been delivered from drugs and claim they just get high on the Lord now. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what would happen when that phenomenon cease for them to go back to drugs.

In the Azusa Street Revival, some were getting visions and "revelations" as they prophesy different things.

Healings have been reported, but it may have been euphoric for when that sensation pass, the ailment is back. Some reports of casting out devils has happened there.

Point is, they were not promoting these phenomenon by preaching Jesus Christ & Him crucified but by that baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues; which never comes with interpretation because it is not of Him at all.

Matthew 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

By not pointing to Jesus as the door, they point to the "Holy Spirit" by a sign, thus committing spiritual adultery.

Matthew 7:13-27 KJV <--- verses 13-14 testify of that iniquity by broadening the way in coming to the Father by.

Verses 15-16 testify that it is ecumenical in nature as the Nicene creed of 381 A.D. was and so it is in supernatural gathering as an example; there is a Catholic Charismatic Church and yet in spite of all that manifestations of tongues, they are still Catholics. Does anyone really think the Lord would ignore the dead works of Catholicism for that long?

Anyway, in verses 21-23 they can claim prophesying in His name, casting out devils in His name, and doing wonderful works in His name, but because they did not do it by coming to Jesus but seeking for a spirit to come to them to bring those phenomenon about, is why they are workers of iniquity.

Jesus explains that those who heed His words will not be falling for that iniquity whereas those who do not heed His words, will literally fall in those phenomenon and many do.. losing self control & falling backwards.

Verses 17-20 refutes tongues for private users that claim they do not believe the holy laughter movement is of God nor being slain in the spirit is of God nor being drunk in the spirit is of God, variations of this found in Azusa street Revival, but yet that was the emphasis for how all those other chaos came about for that baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues. it is that route.. that same evil tree, that this tongue comes by with no interpretation.

And how can it not be deem confusion as well when tongue for private users claim the Holy Spirit is praying for them or they are being self edified, or they are praising God in worship or they are giving thanks, and yet with all of that different mode for tongues for private use, how can they know what that tongue is doing? The epitome of confusion which God is not the author of. But they like it because it is so cool & elevates them from other believers that are not tongue speakers like them ( as if God shows partiality in the body of Christ ... NOT )

What is worse is people like Joyce Meyers that believes she can interpret tongues by getting the gist or feel of what is being said and she interprets it that way.

A church believed they had the actual gift of tongues and hired a linguist to record it all but came back with the report that it was all gibberish nonsense.

It is one thing for believers to fake tongues to fit in & be accepted but how they interpret tongues and believing that is really how they are to do it, is why that church was fooled for so long, thinking they had God's gift of tongues.

There is a pagan supernatural tongue in the world that is just gibberish nonsense. It can be found in the occult as confirmed by Isaiah 8:19 and in Romans idolatry.

"Ecstatic language was a common form of worship in pagan temples.i It was well established in Ancient Byblos (1100 BC). Plato (429-347 BC) mentions it as a phenomenon in his time. He tells us that a person under divine possession received utterances and visions that the receiver did not understand.

These utterances were sometimes accompanied by physical healing of people present. Virgil (70-19 BC) tells us that the Sibylline priestess, when in prayer, united her spirit with the god Apollo and spoke in strange tongues.ii"

The web page to that information is no longer available.

Anyway; for God to call sinners away from those spirits and that kind of tongue, God's gift of tongues cannot be for private use. Ever.

 

[EarlyActs]

The issue I have with tongues today is how many are claiming that it is "also" for private use because it does not come with interpretation. They wish to assert that all the gifts of the Spirit are for the assembly, "except for tongues".

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many.

19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

The streamline Pentecostal/Charismatic churches broke off in different factions from the Azusa Street Revival of 1906-1909 as they can trace their roots back to there, but I deem it the focal point for how the wolf scatter the sheep.

The Azusa Street Revival placed an emphasis on the baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues. There were various signs and wonders happening there where alcoholics were experiencing deliverance, but it was noted by newspaper reporter that when the phenomenon died out, they went back to alcohol. There was a phenomenon called being drunk in the Holy Spirit that was happening there. One can surmise that the alcoholics just exchange one form of drunkenness for another for why they went back to alcohol when it was not happening any more.

The native American Indians took to getting drunk by alcohol because it reminded them when they were communing with the "Great Spirit".

Some revivals are claiming drug users have been delivered from drugs and claim they just get high on the Lord now. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what would happen when that phenomenon cease for them to go back to drugs.

In the Azusa Street Revival, some were getting visions and "revelations" as they prophesy different things.

Healings have been reported, but it may have been euphoric for when that sensation pass, the ailment is back. Some reports of casting out devils has happened there.

Point is, they were not promoting these phenomenon by preaching Jesus Christ & Him crucified but by that baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues; which never comes with interpretation because it is not of Him at all.

Matthew 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

By not pointing to Jesus as the door, they point to the "Holy Spirit" by a sign, thus committing spiritual adultery.

Matthew 7:13-27 KJV <--- verses 13-14 testify of that iniquity by broadening the way in coming to the Father by.

Verses 15-16 testify that it is ecumenical in nature as the Nicene creed of 381 A.D. was and so it is in supernatural gathering as an example; there is a Catholic Charismatic Church and yet in spite of all that manifestations of tongues, they are still Catholics. Does anyone really think the Lord would ignore the dead works of Catholicism for that long?

Anyway, in verses 21-23 they can claim prophesying in His name, casting out devils in His name, and doing wonderful works in His name, but because they did not do it by coming to Jesus but seeking for a spirit to come to them to bring those phenomenon about, is why they are workers of iniquity.

Jesus explains that those who heed His words will not be falling for that iniquity whereas those who do not heed His words, will literally fall in those phenomenon and many do.. losing self control & falling backwards.

Verses 17-20 refutes tongues for private users that claim they do not believe the holy laughter movement is of God nor being slain in the spirit is of God nor being drunk in the spirit is of God, variations of this found in Azusa street Revival, but yet that was the emphasis for how all those other chaos came about for that baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues. it is that route.. that same evil tree, that this tongue comes by with no interpretation.

And how can it not be deem confusion as well when tongue for private users claim the Holy Spirit is praying for them or they are being self edified, or they are praising God in worship or they are giving thanks, and yet with all of that different mode for tongues for private use, how can they know what that tongue is doing? The epitome of confusion which God is not the author of. But they like it because it is so cool & elevates them from other believers that are not tongue speakers like them ( as if God shows partiality in the body of Christ ... NOT )

What is worse is people like Joyce Meyers that believes she can interpret tongues by getting the gist or feel of what is being said and she interprets it that way.

A church believed they had the actual gift of tongues and hired a linguist to record it all but came back with the report that it was all gibberish nonsense.

It is one thing for believers to fake tongues to fit in & be accepted but how they interpret tongues and believing that is really how they are to do it, is why that church was fooled for so long, thinking they had God's gift of tongues.

There is a pagan supernatural tongue in the world that is just gibberish nonsense. It can be found in the occult as confirmed by Isaiah 8:19 and in Romans idolatry.

"Ecstatic language was a common form of worship in pagan temples.i It was well established in Ancient Byblos (1100 BC). Plato (429-347 BC) mentions it as a phenomenon in his time. He tells us that a person under divine possession received utterances and visions that the receiver did not understand.

These utterances were sometimes accompanied by physical healing of people present. Virgil (70-19 BC) tells us that the Sibylline priestess, when in prayer, united her spirit with the god Apollo and spoke in strange tongues.ii"

The web page to that information is no longer available.

Anyway; for God to call sinners away from those spirits and that kind of tongue, God's gift of tongues cannot be for private use. Ever.

It seems pretty clear from how I C 14 progresses that the private stuff is pretty much off base. He has to come back to the Isaiah quote and remind people that it was a sign about the mission work which Jews were supposed to do.

 

[ChristB4us]

It seems pretty clear from how I C 14 progresses that the private stuff is pretty much off base. He has to come back to the Isaiah quote and remind people that it was a sign about the mission work which Jews were supposed to do.

I thank the Father in Jesus's name & I thank Jesus Christ for you for sharing and confirming the word in keeping the faith which is the good fight.

 

[Mr GLee]

I would offer no such thing as a "sign gift". Spiritual gift not seen yes. signs appose faith the unsen things of God. Believers have prophecy the living word.

It was because of atheist Jews that sought after signs to wonder in a false hope of the evidence appearing. .this was before they could exercise faith as an anchor to their souls ,

The sign and wonder seekers made Jesus into a circus seal. Do a trick work a miracle, then not a second before when we see it with our own eyes then we will believe.

(The law) John 4:48Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.


(the broken testimony) John 6:30They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

Blasphemy, The foundation of Paganism "out of sight out of mind".

From the very beginning, the work of the father of lies. In effect saying. . .Why trust in an unseen God. . look at my beaty and live forever?

Genisis 4:8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him. And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, (Abel) and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[EarlyActs]

Y

I would offer no such thing as a "sign gift". Spiritual gift not seen yes. signs appose faith the unsen things of God. Believers have prophecy the living word.

It was because of atheist Jews that sought after signs to wonder in a false hope of the evidence appearing. .this was before they could exercise faith as an anchor to their souls ,

The sign and wonder seekers made Jesus into a circus seal. Do a trick work a miracle, then not a second before when we see it with our own eyes then we will believe.

(The law) John 4:48Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.


(the broken testimony) John 6:30They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

Blasphemy, The foundation of Paganism "out of sight out of mind".

From the very beginning, the work of the father of lies. In effect saying. . .Why trust in an unseen God. . look at my beaty and live forever?

Genisis 4:8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him. And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, (Abel) and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

ou have too many topics, please say one short thing about the convo.

 

[Mr GLee]

Y

ou have too many topics, please say one short thing about the convo.

I would offer no such thing as a "sign gift". Spiritual gift not seen yes.

We look to the unseen eternal things of God "faith".Not the temporal things of dying mankind seen "no faith"

 

[EarlyActs]

I would offer no such thing as a "sign gift". Spiritual gift not seen yes.

What does “not seen” mean? Aren’t real gifts seen in a group, whether counselor or teacher or organizer?

 

[Mr GLee]

What does “not seen” mean? Aren’t real gifts seen in a group, whether counselor or teacher or organizer?

The law of faith Christ the faithful Creature . let there be (the law not seen) and it was good (as that seen ) The mixing of two laws again one sen the other not.

It would appear to be the formula for rightly dividing or interpreting the parables as prophecy In that way we can learn how to walk or understand according to the faith of Christ that works in those yoked with him. The gospels unseen understanding of parables hid form natural man

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

 

[EarlyActs]

The law of faith Christ the faithful Creature . let there be (the law not seen) and it was good (as that seen ) The mixing of two laws again one sen the other not.

It would appear to be the formula for rightly dividing or interpreting the parables as prophecy In that way we can learn how to walk or understand according to the faith of Christ that works in those yoked with him. The gospels unseen understanding of parables hid form natural man

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

???

 

[Mr GLee]

???

Law of faith by Christ the faithful Creator .

 

[Mr GLee]

What does “not seen” mean? Aren’t real gifts seen in a group, whether counselor or teacher or organizer?

The real lasting gift are invisible or not seen .

 

[EarlyActs]

The real lasting gift are invisible or not seen .

A good leader at our church has a men’s study going. What is invisible or not seen about that?

 

[Mr GLee]

A good leader at our church has a men’s study going. What is invisible or not seen about that?

Other than we are warned that we need no man to teach us?

Believers look to the unseen eternal things of God. Faith as the power of God

It's an evil generation that looks to outward sign before they believe. Like . . Look I am reading the Bible surely that must count for something. or I got wet .Or a tongue I made a noise without meaning. . No signs to wonder after.

We have a living hope

1 Samuel 16: But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.

Walk by the faith of Christ the eternal not seen Not that seen the Son of man, Jesus.

 

[EarlyActs]

Other than we are warned that we need no man to teach us?

Believers look to the unseen eternal things of God. Faith as the power of God

It's an evil generation that looks to outward sign before they believe. Like . . Look I am reading the Bible surely that must count for something. or I got wet .Or a tongue I made a noise without meaning. . No signs to wonder after.

We have a living hope

1 Samuel 16: But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.

Walk by the faith of Christ the eternal not seen Not that seen the Son of man, Jesus.

I’m not talking about signs, I’m talking about what Rom 5 would call ‘proven character.’

 

[Mr GLee]

I’m not talking about signs, I’m talking about what Rom 5 would call ‘proven character.’

Look to the temporal things seen? Or His proven character as the one who does the works of His faith or labor of His love .?

Romans 5King James Version5;1-2 Therefore being justified by faith, (his) we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this (his ) grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

 

[EarlyActs]

Look to the temporal things seen? Or His proven character as the one who does the works of His faith or labor of His love .?

Romans 5King James Version5;1-2 Therefore being justified by faith, (his) we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this (his ) grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Mr G:
can you have someone help you write? You have no idea of context. I had been talking about leaders proving their character in visible ways; you lose context just about every post.

 

[Mr GLee]

What does “not seen” mean? Aren’t real gifts seen in a group, whether counselor or teacher or organizer?

The teacher or Holy Spirit is not seen. He gives real spiritual gifts unseen.

In order to rightly divide the parables which without Christ spoke not. The temporal historical must be mixed with the unseen eternal. No mix no gospel. Faith the unseen thing of God compared to the same faith

2 Corinthians 8 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

It would apply to the tongues as prophecy doctrine. With its foundation in Isaiah 28.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Tongues.
God uses it to divide a people:

7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.
8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. Gen. 11:7–8.

And God uses it to unite a people:

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:4.

Christ said He will build His Church and He uses tongues to unite them. They remain in one accord, especially after their experience of speaking tongues for in this event 3000 Jews were prepared to salvation and thus became one with their Messiah in the spirit. A new man was formed, and Israel became spiritual Israel, a spiritual nation in the Spirit - the Holy Spirit of Promise.