All means all

[atpollard]

Why are those who never heard of Jesus, but lived right according to their God-given conscience, in the last 2000 years going to hell? Where does it say that?

You mean like all the Aztec that practiced human sacrifice to send a message to their winged snake god? Those people that “never heard of Jesus, but lived right according to their God-given conscience” that you think might be going to heaven while “all liars have their place in the lake of fire”.

[It generally talks about EVERYBODY being screwed by sin in Romans 1 to Romans 3.]

 

[Carbon]

You mean like all the Aztec that practiced human sacrifice to send a message to their winged snake god? Those people that “never heard of Jesus, but lived right according to their God-given conscience” that you think might be going to heaven while “all liars have their place in the lake of fire”.

And if there were an elect among them, he/she and however many, wont be going to hell.

 

[atpollard]

And if there were an elect among them, he/she and however many, wont be going to hell.

Romans 9:15 … whomever means whomever!

 

[Carbon]

Romans 9:15 … whomever means whomever!

Amen.

These few, if any, must have heard or read the gospel somewhere, somehow. This is the means God uses to save His elect.

 

[Marilyn C]

You mean like all the Aztec that practiced human sacrifice to send a message to their winged snake god? Those people that “never heard of Jesus, but lived right according to their God-given conscience” that you think might be going to heaven while “all liars have their place in the lake of fire”.

[It generally talks about EVERYBODY being screwed by sin in Romans 1 to Romans 3.]

Obviously, that is NOT living according to their GOD-given conscience for their works show their motive.

People who live according to their GOD-given conscience, (& not seared) obviously do not `suppress the truth ` which is displayed in God`s creation. (Rom. 1: 20)

 

[Marilyn C]

Amen.

These few, if any, must have heard or read the gospel somewhere, somehow. This is the means God uses to save His elect.

Where does it say that only those who hear the gospel and believe are saved?

 

[Carbon]

Where does it say that only those who hear the gospel and believe are saved?

Are you suggesting someone can get saved and not hear the gospel?


You're not a hyper are you?

 

[atpollard]

Are you suggesting someone can get saved and not hear the gospel?


You're not a hyper are you?

Noah did.

 

[Carbon]

Noah did.

How so?

Didn't God talk with Noah? Didn't God make a covenant with him? Do you think Noah knew God?

 

[Carbon]

Noah did.

Matter of fact, Noah was saved by grace as we all are. And since he was saved, he had faith, he believed God, and built the Ark.

 

[Marilyn C]

Are you suggesting someone can get saved and not hear the gospel?


You're not a hyper are you?

We know from God`s word that the Body of Christ and the OTR saints are not in the grave but in the General Assembly (third heaven). Thus, `the dead small and great standing before God,` at the GWT are those who have are judged according to their works, (revealing their motives). And those `dead,` are not just prior to the Lord`s manifestation and ascension.

 

[Iconoclast]

It matters not how I reconcile Romans 8 and 9. I only have to read in God's word that He tells us that He wants none to perish. (I listed some of the verses that tells us that.) If your view of Romans 8 and 9 can be reconciled with the view that God does actually want some to perish, then perhaps it is how you have reconciled them wrongly.

God has ordained that multitudes perish.Mt 7 speaks of multitudes who are cast into second death.

 

[Marilyn C]

God has ordained that multitudes perish.Mt 7 speaks of multitudes who are cast into second death.

Jesus was speaking to the Jews.

 

[atpollard]

Are you suggesting someone can get saved and not hear the gospel?

Noah did.

How so?

Didn't God talk with Noah? Didn't God make a covenant with him? Do you think Noah knew God?

Matter of fact, Noah was saved by grace as we all are. And since he was saved, he had faith, he believed God, and built the Ark.

Perhaps you need to define "the Gospel" for me.

I have a suspicion that Jesus (God incarnate) ultimately came as a pleasant surprise, His death came as an unexpected shock, and His triumphal resurrection came as a joyful relief ... to Noah.

 

[Arial]

So are you saying that the great multitude that no one can count are the FEW?

?? I have no idea where you got that that is what I was saying.

 

[Carbon]

Perhaps you need to define "the Gospel" for me.

I’ll try by asking a question. What is the gospel!
I believe it is between Genesis and Revelation.

I have a suspicion that Jesus (God incarnate) ultimately came as a pleasant surprise, His death came as an unexpected shock, and His triumphal resurrection came as a joyful relief ... to Noah.

Okay.

 

[JIM]

God has ordained that multitudes perish.Mt 7 speaks of multitudes who are cast into second death.

That doesn't preclude God's not wanting those multitudes to perish.

 

[fastfredy0]

Why are those who never heard of Jesus, but lived right according to their God-given conscience, in the last 2000 years going to hell? Where does it say that?

https://www.gotquestions.org/inclusivism-exclusivism.html
John 14:6; John 3:16–18; and Romans 10:13–15.

Another group of theologians gleaned this from scripture:
Can they who have never heard the gospel, and so know not Jesus Christ, nor believe in him, be saved by their living according to the light of nature? The Westminster Larger Catechism – Question 60
Answer 60: They who, having never heard the gospel,[1] know not Jesus Christ,[2] and believe not in him, cannot be saved,[3] be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature,[4] or the laws of that religion which they profess;[5] neither is there salvation in any other, but in Christ alone,[6] who is the Savior only of his body the church.[7]
1. Romans 10:14, 2. 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9; Ephesians 2:12; John 1:11-12, 3. John 8:24; Mark 16:16,
4. 1 Corinthians 1:20-24, 5. John 4:22; Romans 9:31-32; Philippians 3:4-9, 6. Acts 4:12, 7. Ephesians 5:23

.. and my own personal list of verses saying people in last 2000 years who never heard of Christ are keeping their feet warm in hell includes:

• Matthew 11:27b and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Son except the Father; and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son [deliberately] wills to reveal Him.
• John 1:11-12
• John 3:18 Whoever believes and has decided to trust in Him [as personal Savior and Lord] is not judged [for this one, there is no judgment, no rejection, no condemnation]; but the one who does not believe [and has decided to reject Him as personal Savior and Lord] is judged already [that one has been convicted and sentenced], because he has not believed and trusted in the name of the [One and] only begotten Son of God [the One who is truly unique, the only One of His kind, the One who alone can save him].
• John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
• John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him [giving him the desire to come to Me]; and I will raise him up [from the dead] on the last day.
• John 14:5 Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going; so how can we know the way?” 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the [only] Way [to God] and the [real] Truth and the [real] Life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
• 
  
• John 12:48 Whoever rejects Me and refuses to accept My teachings, has one who judges him; the very word that I spoke will judge and condemn him on the last day.
• John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
• Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among people by which we must be saved [for God has provided the world no alternative for salvation].”
• Romans 3:10 As it is written and forever remains written, “There is none righteous [none that meets God’s standard], not even one.11 “There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God. 12 “All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, no, not one.”
• Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been clearly revealed [independently and completely] apart from the Law, though it is [actually] confirmed by the Law and the [words and writings of the] Prophets. 22 This righteousness of God comes through faith in Jesus Christ for all those [Jew or Gentile] who believe [and trust in Him and acknowledge Him as God’s Son]. There is no distinction, 23 since all have sinned and continually fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are being justified [declared free of the guilt of sin, made acceptable to God, and granted eternal life] as a gift by His [precious, undeserved] grace, through the redemption [the payment for our sin] which is [provided] in Christ Jesus,
• Romans 10:13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord [in prayer] will be saved.” 14 But how will people call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how will they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher (messenger)? 15 And how will they preach unless they are commissioned and sent [for that purpose]? Just as it is written and forever remains written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news of good things!”
• 1 Corinthians 6:22 If anyone has no love for the Lord, let him be accursed. Our Lord, come!
• 2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.
• Ephesians 2:12 remember that at that time you were separated from Christ [excluded from any relationship with Him], alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise [with no share in the sacred Messianic promise and without knowledge of God’s agreements], having no hope [in His promise] and [living] in the world without God.
• Ephesians 2:12 remember that at that time you were separated from Christ [excluded from any relationship with Him], alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise [with no share in the sacred Messianic promise and without knowledge of God’s agreements], having no hope [in His promise] and [living] in the world without God.
• 1 John 2:23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.
• 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
• 1 John 5:12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
• Inclusivism depreciates the Trinity. This depreciates the Incarnation, depreciates the work and atonement of Christ, denies the uniqueness of the Bible, denies the necessity of gospel truth, substitutes the same old philosophical junk about the 'universal logos' at work in all religious systems. John MacArthur

... besides that, I got nothin'

 

[Arial]

Perhaps you need to define "the Gospel" for me.

I have a suspicion that Jesus (God incarnate) ultimately came as a pleasant surprise, His death came as an unexpected shock, and His triumphal resurrection came as a joyful relief ... to Noah.

Maybe what we need to define in this instance is not the gospel but faith. @Carbon touched on in when he said Noah was saved by grace through faith. In the OT we see God addressing faith in connection with a person's relationship to Him. And of course there is Abraham whose faith was credited to him as righteousness.

Faith then is believing God. That He alone is God. The One true and living God. That He is our sovereign King and Creator. And because we believe this, doing what He says even when it looks like He is asking something of us that we cannot see into, or are in what to us are impossible situations to survive or extract ourselves from, and therefore can only trust Him. In essence, faith is trusting Him, above what we can see or what we feel. (Food from heaven or brought by a raven, water in dry land, surrounded by enemies with no way out, etc.)

He has always been the same triune God. In OT times He made a way to approach Him in various ways. The most notable of course being through the priesthood and sacrifices of the Sinai covenant. In the new covenant that way of approach has been done away with. Now we approach Him through faith/trust in Jesus and His work for us, and no other way. Jesus is now the only way to come before God or to be in covenant with Him.

 

[atpollard]

I’ll try by asking a question. What is the gospel!
I believe it is between Genesis and Revelation.

Nope ... too vague for me to follow your definition.
(... and isn't it cheating to answer a question with a question?)