All means all

[ReverendRV]

I think it does; let me explain...

To start, there is a distinction between the Spelling and the Meaning of Atonement and Ransom; even in the Greek. For now, I'm going to assume you agree this means on some level there is a distinction between these words; right?

Do you have good reason to continue to believe Ransom and Atonement are not distinct?

@JIM do you want to continue?

 

[JIM]

@JIM do you want to continue?

I agree that they are different; but they are part and parcel of the same event, namely our justification. Jesus paid the ransom to God for the sins of the world; It was that payment that atoned for our sins.

 

[ReverendRV]

I agree that they are different; but they are part and parcel of the same event, namely our justification. Jesus paid the ransom to God for the sins of the world; It was that payment that atoned for our sins.

Now your on to something...

But since the words have different Meanings, why is the Ransom an Atonement?

Wasn't his Sacrifice the Atonement?

 

[JIM]

Now your on to something...

But since the words have different Meanings, why is the Ransom Atonement?

Because that is what God demanded. The holiness of God demands that sin be punished. The death of Jesus was the ransom, the punishment paid for sins.

 

[ReverendRV]

Because that is what God demanded. The holiness of God demands that sin be punished.

Let me ask this; could we have been Atoned for without the Ransom?

 

[JIM]

Let me ask this; could we have been Atoned for without the Ransom?

I seriously doubt it. If so, I don't know why God would impose that on His Son.

 

[ReverendRV]

I seriously doubt it. If so, I don't know why God would impose that on His Son.

Ah, I think you believe Jesus paid a Ransom to God?

 

[JIM]

Ah, I think you believe Jesus paid a Ransom to God?

Of course. To whom else would the ransom be paid?

 

[ReverendRV]

Of course. To whom else would the ransom be paid?

To Satan; for Federal Headship...

 

[JIM]

To Satan; for Federal Headship...

First, I don't hold to any of that "Federal Headship" stuff.

Second, atonement is the reparation for a wrong committed against another. The wrong we committed by our sins is against God, not Satan.

 

[Carbon]

To Satan; for Federal Headship...

Thats wrong of course. Noting is owed or paid to Satan.

 

[Carbon]

First, I don't hold to any of that "Federal Headship" stuff.

No worries, Satan has nothing to do with it.

 

[ReverendRV]

First, I don't hold to any of that "Federal Headship" stuff.

Second, atonement is the reparation for a wrong committed against another. The wrong we committed by our sins is against God, not Satan.

Atonement is 'soothing the Wrath of God'. If Christ Ransomed this soothing for All, then God Atoned for All. Therefore, Christ didn't pay a Ransom to God...

 

[ReverendRV]

First, I don't hold to any of that "Federal Headship" stuff.

Second, atonement is the reparation for a wrong committed against another. The wrong we committed by our sins is against God, not Satan.

ransom—properly of a captive slave. Man was the captive slave of Satan, sold under sin. He was unable to ransom himself, because absolute obedience is due to God, and therefore no act of ours can satisfy for the least offense. Le 25:48 allowed one sold captive to be redeemed by one of his brethren. The Son of God, therefore, became man in order that, being made like unto us in all things, sin only excepted, as our elder brother He should redeem us (Mt 20:28; Eph 1:7; 1Pe 1:18, 19). The Greek implies not merely ransom, but a substituted or equivalent ransom: the Greek preposition, "anti," implying reciprocity and vicarious substitution.

for all—Greek, "in behalf of all": not merely for a privileged few; compare 1Ti 2:1: the argument for praying in behalf of all is given here.

1 Timothy 2:6 Commentaries: who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.

 

[ReverendRV]

deleted

Again?

 

[JIM]

Again?

I think I misread you at first and started to respond based on that, but then realized my error. I wish there were some way to simply cancel a post; if there is, I don't see how. Rereading it correctly, I have nothing to add.

 

[ReverendRV]

I think I misread you at first and started to respond based on that, but then realized my error. I wish there were some way to simply cancel a post; if there is, I don't see how. Rereading it correctly, I have nothing to add.

Well, at least you haven't been a Pain to Debate with...

If we were to continue like this, you will be a Calvinist...

 

[JIM]

Well, at least you haven't been a Pain to Debate with...

If we were to continue like this, you will be a Calvinist...

Would never happen.

 

[JIM]

Would never happen.

But I would still call you my friend and brother in Christ.

 

[Carbon]

But I would still call you my friend and brother in Christ.

Well, you have been, haven't you?