A trinity of reality

[EarlyActs]

It can help us understand the Trinity to realize that each one of the Godhead also matches a real demonstrated impact or event in the world since the Gospel event.
1, God is the God who justifies. This was done through Christ, sure, but anyone can see in Rom 3 that through the whole description, a God who justifies from sin is a bit distinct from the suffering of Christ that paid for it. This gift of justification has blessed the world ever since.
2, Christ the enthroned King. This event was "seen" at Pentecost, but of course, we can't see heaven and see the reality of it. We have the Pentecost event as the demonstration of it. Peter said that the language miracle was a gift from God to Christ for his suffering and the people hearing it would take his fame all around the known world. The resurrection enthroned Christ, and all honor is due him by all rulers and plumbers across the world, lest they be smashed as his enemies.
3, The Spirit's transforming work. The Spirit helps us declare the two truths above and changes our lives toward the more and more effective spread of it. This is unstoppable if we have the above two messages in us. It is not us who need to be aware how the Spirit works but aware of the message; He will do the other. But again it is a demonstration in our world of God being there and being triunified.

 

[Mr GLee]

It can help us understand the Trinity to realize that each one of the Godhead also matches a real demonstrated impact or event in the world since the Gospel event.
1, God is the God who justifies. This was done through Christ, sure, but anyone can see in Rom 3 that through the whole description, a God who justifies from sin is a bit distinct from the suffering of Christ that paid for it. This gift of justification has blessed the world ever since.
2, Christ the enthroned King. This event was "seen" at Pentecost, but of course, we can't see heaven and see the reality of it. We have the Pentecost event as the demonstration of it. Peter said that the language miracle was a gift from God to Christ for his suffering and the people hearing it would take his fame all around the known world. The resurrection enthroned Christ, and all honor is due him by all rulers and plumbers across the world, lest they be smashed as his enemies.
3, The Spirit's transforming work. The Spirit helps us declare the two truths above and changes our lives toward the more and more effective spread of it. This is unstoppable if we have the above two messages in us. It is not us who need to be aware how the Spirit works but aware of the message; He will do the other. But again it is a demonstration in our world of God being there and being triunified.

I see it more of the duality of the Spirit of God not trinity. Two is the one witness God not seen has spoke . The Elohim in Genesis .3

The Father not seen making himself known to the world by the Son of man Jesus . The dynamic dual . The Father as the Holy Spirit of God and the son of God Jesus born of the spirit of sonship or spirit of adoption by which sons of God Christians can can cry out Abba, Holy Father.

John 8:17-19King James Version It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

The witness of two the old and new testament as one witness .

Trinity. . three is a crowd

Three denotes the end of a matter

 

[EarlyActs]

I see it more of the duality of the Spirit of God not trinity. Two is the one witness God not seen has spoke . The Elohim in Genesis .3

The Father not seen making himself known to the world by the Son of man Jesus . The dynamic dual . The Father as the Holy Spirit of God and the son of God Jesus born of the spirit of sonship or spirit of adoption by which sons of God Christians can can cry out Abba, Holy Father.

John 8:17-19King James Version It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

The witness of two the old and new testament as one witness .

Trinity. . three is a crowd

Three denotes the end of a matter

???

 

[A branch]

1 John 5
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

 

[Mr GLee]

???

Two represents God has spoken not three called a trinity .

 

[Runningman]

It can help us understand the Trinity to realize that each one of the Godhead also matches a real demonstrated impact or event in the world since the Gospel event.
1, God is the God who justifies. This was done through Christ, sure, but anyone can see in Rom 3 that through the whole description, a God who justifies from sin is a bit distinct from the suffering of Christ that paid for it. This gift of justification has blessed the world ever since.
2, Christ the enthroned King. This event was "seen" at Pentecost, but of course, we can't see heaven and see the reality of it. We have the Pentecost event as the demonstration of it. Peter said that the language miracle was a gift from God to Christ for his suffering and the people hearing it would take his fame all around the known world. The resurrection enthroned Christ, and all honor is due him by all rulers and plumbers across the world, lest they be smashed as his enemies.
3, The Spirit's transforming work. The Spirit helps us declare the two truths above and changes our lives toward the more and more effective spread of it. This is unstoppable if we have the above two messages in us. It is not us who need to be aware how the Spirit works but aware of the message; He will do the other. But again it is a demonstration in our world of God being there and being triunified.

The trinity isn't found in scripture. It isn't explained or described.

 

[EarlyActs]

The trinity isn't found in scripture. It isn't explained or described.

It is in many natural phenomenon , in music, in artistry, and in this bit of substantial NT theology. It preserves a very necessary unity (assumed by the word itself).

Have a go at Sayers THE MIND OF THE MAKER. She shows that failure to maintain a balanced, unified Trinity explains all off-base theological drifts and artistic failures. The examples are drawn from vast historical knowledge.

 

[A branch]

The trinity isn't found in scripture. It isn't explained or described.

How else would one explain 1 John 5 : 7

 

[Mr GLee]

It is in many natural phenomenon , in music, in artistry, and in this bit of substantial NT theology. It preserves a very necessary unity (assumed by the word itself).

Have a go at Sayers THE MIND OF THE MAKER. She shows that failure to maintain a balanced, unified Trinity explains all off-base theological drifts and artistic failures. The examples are drawn from vast historical knowledge.

I would think three as a metaphor is used in a aparableit has one kind of usage

Three denotes the end of a matter from Genesis day three his glory departed .Day four the temporal time keepers. In the new order no ned for the Sun just as it was the first three days God is Light.

Used over in over during the three days and nights demonstration

Used 79 times in the new testament as the end of a matter. seven times in Acts below

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Acts 5:7And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.

Acts 7:14Then sent Joseph, and called his father Jacob to him, and all his kindred, threescore and fifteen souls.

Acts 7:20In which time Moses was born, and was exceeding fair, and nourished up in his father's house three months:

Acts 9:9And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

Acts 10:19While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.

Acts 11:10And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven.

Acts 11:11And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me

Two represents God has spoken and moved His Son . Both prophecies working as one (Genesis 3:15 and Isaiah 53) speak of the father striking the son brushing his heel crushing the head of the serpent .

The three day and night promised demonstration of two working as one began in the garden of Gethsemane .There Jesus the Son of man began sufferings unto death . Three time he looked for strength from the apostles. Three time the father put them to fulfil the prophecy of two, Then they moved on to the second demonstration the bloody cross as a sign to the unbelieving world in a hope of drawing them to the word of God Then the last the tomb, the demonstration of faith (the unseen things of God

Three is the crowd of Satan inspired mankind , No work is accredited the father of lies . believers have prophecy

 

[Mr GLee]

How else would one explain 1 John 5 : 7

I would offer the three are one not three . In that way three represents the end of a matter. not two or four

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

The Father the Holy Spirit of God speaking the word of God .

Three was developed to include a queen mother of heaven oral traditions of the fathers (two kinds of fathers) Creating a earthen family.Not a spiritual family . call no man on earth Holy Father.

 

[Binyawmene]

It is in many natural phenomenon , in music, in artistry, and in this bit of substantial NT theology. It preserves a very necessary unity (assumed by the word itself).

Have a go at Sayers THE MIND OF THE MAKER. She shows that failure to maintain a balanced, unified Trinity explains all off-base theological drifts and artistic failures. The examples are drawn from vast historical knowledge.

Just stick with Scriptures.

Matthew 3:16-17 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever

Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

1 Corinthians 12:4-6 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.

1 Peter 1:2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

2 Corinthians 13:14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

Ephesians 4:4-6 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

 

[Binyawmene]

The trinity isn't found in scripture. It isn't explained or described.

The Unitarians are applying eisegesis by "importing" or "drawing in" into the text, for example of their "all-go-to" Scripture, we read "one God the Father" (1 Corinthians 8:6) as a foundational presupposition for Unitarianism basis, that Father is one God only, and then taking that particular preconceived assumption into 1 Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus," and then assumes that "one God" is in reference to the Father only, and excluding out Jesus Christ is also that one God. Because it mentions that Jesus Christ being a man, so that negates Jesus Christ being God. As if Jesus Christ cannot be both that One God and the One Mediator too.

Or, applying that presupposition to Matthew 19:17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” as if that is a reference to the Father only and Jesus Christ excluded himself out. And just because you read a verse like Ephesians 4:6 mentioning one person out of the three persons doesn't mean there is an exclusion. It's also called Scriptural isolating. Since the whole of Scriptures also teach that Jesus Christ is God and the Holy Spirit is God. And the Scriptures says there is one God. Scriptures don't contradict but harmonize, so all three is that one God. And so many more examples I can demonstrate this eisegesis but I'm sure you get the point.

Let me guess. You will say something like blaming, "No! It's you who is applying eisegesis." Maybe denials like, "The Trinity isn't explained or described in the Bible." Blah, blah, etc. The blame game or some kind of bickering match that is irrelevant to the topic. Or something similar to that effect.

 

[Mr GLee]

Three equals one. Not three separate gods equals one .The Holy Spirit of the Father speaks the word of God.

 

[Binyawmene]

Three equals one. Not three separate gods equals one .The Holy Spirit of the Father speaks the word of God.

Funny. Stick around and you might learn what the Trinity teaches. A mature Unitarian would acknowledge the Trinity is monotheistic. We don't believe in three gods. The "persons" are ascribed as "God," not by the person, but according to the Divine Nature. And don't forget that majority of BU (Biblical Unitarians) turns Jesus Christ into some kind of demi-god upon his exaltation. Unitarians are tritheistic or polytheistic when you scratch underneath their Christology.

a. Trinitarianism teaches that God by essential nature of himself is in three distinctions or triune (One God is triune-ness) and the distinctions is called "Persons" the Father-Person, the Son-Person, and the Holy Spirit-Person.

b. While the concept of Biblical Unitarianism teaches that God by essential nature of himself has no distinctions or unitary whole (One God is one-ness). That the One "God" in the strict sense is the "Person" called the Father only.

 

[Binyawmene]

1 John 5
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

You do know that verse is suspect and also Matthew 28:19?

 

[Runningman]

It is in many natural phenomenon , in music, in artistry, and in this bit of substantial NT theology. It preserves a very necessary unity (assumed by the word itself).

Have a go at Sayers THE MIND OF THE MAKER. She shows that failure to maintain a balanced, unified Trinity explains all off-base theological drifts and artistic failures. The examples are drawn from vast historical knowledge.

when I refer to the "Trinity" I am referring to the Catholic/Protestant doctrine as described in the Athanasian Creed. This creed doesn't say what the Bible says.

 

[Runningman]

How else would one explain 1 John 5 : 7

1 John 5:7 has been redacted from most modern Bibles because it was proven beyond a doubt it was a later addition to the text. In other words, it's a lie. How would you explain this?

 

[Runningman]

The Unitarians are applying eisegesis by "importing" or "drawing in" into the text, for example of their "all-go-to" Scripture, we read "one God the Father" (1 Corinthians 8:6) as a foundational presupposition for Unitarianism basis, that Father is one God only, and then taking that particular preconceived assumption into 1 Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus," and then assumes that "one God" is in reference to the Father only, and excluding out Jesus Christ is also that one God. Because it mentions that Jesus Christ being a man, so that negates Jesus Christ being God. As if Jesus Christ cannot be both that One God and the One Mediator too.

What you're describing is called exegesis. Then again, to those who can't recognize the truth, the truth would indeed appear as a lie. That seems to be your problem.

Or, applying that presupposition to Matthew 19:17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” as if that is a reference to the Father only and Jesus Christ excluded himself out. And just because you read a verse like Ephesians 4:6 mentioning one person out of the three persons doesn't mean there is an exclusion. It's also called Scriptural isolating. Since the whole of Scriptures also teach that Jesus Christ is God and the Holy Spirit is God. And the Scriptures says there is one God. Scriptures don't contradict but harmonize, so all three is that one God. And so many more examples I can demonstrate this eisegesis but I'm sure you get the point.

If you asked a human what good thing you must do and he responded with “Why do you ask Me about what is good? There is only One who is good..." would you think honestly think he was referring to himself or someone else? Try to think of this verse objectively, clearly, and without feeling like the core of your beliefs are being threatened, even though they are. Wouldn't you think he was referring to someone else? Yes you would. You would know he denied being the one who is good. Why do you make an exception for the man Jesus Christ?

Let me guess. You will say something like blaming, "No! It's you who is applying eisegesis." Maybe denials like, "The Trinity isn't explained or described in the Bible." Blah, blah, etc. The blame game or some kind of bickering match that is irrelevant to the topic. Or something similar to that effect.

Okay I won't do that. In that case, let me pose a simple question for you.

In Matthew 11:27 (KJV), Jesus asserts that only the Father truly knows the Son, and vice versa, stating, "...no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son...." If the concept of the Trinity were accurate, suggesting that the Holy Spirit is a distinct "Person" within the Godhead, then the Holy Spirit would also have knowledge of both the Father and the Son. This would contradict Jesus' statement, challenging its truthfulness.

Now rear up and defend your trinity, if you can. How do you account for this contradiction in your belief system?

 

[EarlyActs]

I would suggest reading Sayers. The question is like the existence of God. The fiber/structure of many things makes less sense without it.

 

[Binyawmene]

What you're describing is called exegesis. Then again, to those who can't recognize the truth, the truth would indeed appear as a lie. That seems to be your problem.

No. It is an eisegesis because BU are "importing" or "drawing in" into the text.

a). It's assumed that the one God is only the Father.
b). Then excluded out the Son and the Holy Spirit.
c). Basically, it's restricting and isolating a concept from the whole of Scriptures.
d). The whole of Scriptures teaches that Jesus Christ is God and the Holy Spirit is also God.

If you asked a human what good thing you must do and he responded with “Why do you ask Me about what is good? There is only One who is good..." would you think honestly think he was referring to himself or someone else? Try to think of this verse objectively, clearly, and without feeling like the core of your beliefs are being threatened, even though they are. Wouldn't you think he was referring to someone else? Yes you would. You would know he denied being the one who is good. Why do you make an exception for the man Jesus Christ?

Don't forget that I'm a Hypostatic Unionist. We believe that Jesus Christ is both God and Man. I believe Jesus Christ is referring to himself and the Father. And I also believe that verse 26 is referring to himself and the Father. As a matter of fact, there are so many instance where Jesus Christ talks about himself in the third person like in verse 28. Even your famous all-go-to Scripture in John 17:3, he spoke about himself in the third person in prayer.

Okay I won't do that. In that case, let me pose a simple question for you.

In Matthew 11:27 (KJV), Jesus asserts that only the Father truly knows the Son, and vice versa, stating, "...no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son...." If the concept of the Trinity were accurate, suggesting that the Holy Spirit is a distinct "Person" within the Godhead, then the Holy Spirit would also have knowledge of both the Father and the Son. This would contradict Jesus' statement, challenging its truthfulness.

Now rear up and defend your trinity, if you can. How do you account for this contradiction in your belief system?

And don't forget John 7:29, 8:55, 10:15, 17:25 too.

So, the objection to the argument is that the doctrine of the Trinity implies that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all possess the same singular Divine Nature and all the attributes, such as omniscience, etc. And the three persons don’t constitute a kind of social committee, in which one member could conceivably withhold information from another, but God does withhold information from creation like "day and hour" of the Son's return (Acts 1:7). It is a false to conclude that the Father knows something that the Son does not, (No one knows the 'day and hour' but the Father only, excluding out the Son, Matthew 24:36) or vice versa, (No one knows his 'name' but the Son himself, excluding out the Father, Revelations 19:12) when both are the same God, and both are omniscient. The Unitarians would have to assumed that the Father restricted omniscient too according to their own argument. Jesus Christ said: "All that belongs to the Father is mine (all includes 'day and hour'). That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me that he will make known to you.” (John 16:15). Unitarians would automatically have to assume the Holy Spirit lack knowledge of the 'day and hour' too. Since the Holy Spirit only receives from the Son. If the Son doesn't know, then the Holy Spirit doesn't know. So, it would amount to the Father lacks knowledge of the 'day and hour' he placed in his own authority. Because Unitarians believe the Father's spirit is the Holy Spirit. Sounds like Unitarians got problems.