A Question for the Calvinist

[Ladodgers6]

You have never heard of the Passive/Active Obedience of Christ?

The concepts of active and passive obedience of Christ are found throughout Scripture, though the terms themselves are theological constructs. Active obedience refers to Christ's perfect fulfillment of the Law throughout his life, while passive obedience refers to his suffering and death on the cross. These concepts are often derived from passages like Philippians 2:6-8 for active obedience and Isaiah 53 and Romans 5:18-19 for passive obedience.​

Active Obedience:

Philippians 2:6-8:
This passage describes Christ's humility and obedience, culminating in his death on the cross. Some interpret this as encompassing his entire life of obedience to God's will, including his sinless life.

Hebrews 10:5-7:
This passage speaks of Christ's willingness to fulfill God's will, offering his body as a sacrifice. This is seen as part of his active obedience.

The Law and the Prophets:
Christ's life of perfect obedience to the Law is seen as fulfilling the prophecies and requirements of the Old Testament.

Passive Obedience:

Isaiah 53:
This chapter describes the suffering servant who bears the iniquities of many. This is a key passage supporting Christ's passive obedience.

Romans 5:18-19:
These verses contrast Adam's disobedience with Christ's obedience, highlighting the implications of each for humanity. The "obedience" of Christ here is understood to include his suffering and death. Note: Romans 5:12-21, depict both the Active/Passive Obedience of Christ.

Romans 3:24-26:
This passage speaks of Christ as a propitiation for sin, emphasizing his sacrificial death as a means of satisfying God's justice.

1 Peter 2:21-25:
This passage highlights Christ's example of suffering and his bearing of our sins on the cross.

To understand this better is to discern what Christ came to accomplish; this is the redemptive plan God sent him to do. First to redeem His people from their sins. And the way Christ does this is being the Pascal Lamb to take away our sins. He takes our place and bore the punishment as our substitute. This is called the Passive Obedience of Christ. Now, as Christ lived on earth in human form, he lived a flawless live without sin.

Now, Christ was born of a women under the Law. The reason is to fulfill the broken Covenant of works that curses all mankind. He does this in the flesh because this is what Adam failed to do. And the only way we can be declared righteous before God because of Christ's righteousness being imputed to us and we can enter heaven. Without this righteousness that Christ merited for us, we will not be able to enter heaven.
​

The Fulfillment of the Law

Matt. 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18 For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.


​

 

[Eleanor]

I suppose you have no sticking points?

My sticking point was unbelief in anything besides the historical existence of Christ.
I had nothing against it, I just coudn't make myself savingly believe in any personal way.

But rather than sorting it out, let's pray for his gift of the Holy Spirit. . .which changes one's disposition from uncertainty to trust in God in all things.
And in the meantime, just put it all on the shelf--don't discard it--and get on with your life. It took 15 years before his Holy Spirit did that work in me.

I will pray for you.

 

[Eleanor]

You have never heard of the Passive/Active Obedience of Christ?

If it's not stated or taught in Scripture, I have not heard of it.

 

[makesends]

You have never heard of the Passive/Active Obedience of Christ?

The concepts of active and passive obedience of Christ are found throughout Scripture, though the terms themselves are theological constructs. Active obedience refers to Christ's perfect fulfillment of the Law throughout his life, while passive obedience refers to his suffering and death on the cross. These concepts are often derived from passages like Philippians 2:6-8 for active obedience and Isaiah 53 and Romans 5:18-19 for passive obedience.​

Active Obedience:

Philippians 2:6-8:
This passage describes Christ's humility and obedience, culminating in his death on the cross. Some interpret this as encompassing his entire life of obedience to God's will, including his sinless life.

Hebrews 10:5-7:
This passage speaks of Christ's willingness to fulfill God's will, offering his body as a sacrifice. This is seen as part of his active obedience.

The Law and the Prophets:
Christ's life of perfect obedience to the Law is seen as fulfilling the prophecies and requirements of the Old Testament.

Passive Obedience:

Isaiah 53:
This chapter describes the suffering servant who bears the iniquities of many. This is a key passage supporting Christ's passive obedience.

Romans 5:18-19:
These verses contrast Adam's disobedience with Christ's obedience, highlighting the implications of each for humanity. The "obedience" of Christ here is understood to include his suffering and death. Note: Romans 5:12-21, depict both the Active/Passive Obedience of Christ.

Romans 3:24-26:
This passage speaks of Christ as a propitiation for sin, emphasizing his sacrificial death as a means of satisfying God's justice.

1 Peter 2:21-25:
This passage highlights Christ's example of suffering and his bearing of our sins on the cross.

To understand this better is to discern what Christ came to accomplish; this is the redemptive plan God sent him to do. First to redeem His people from their sins. And the way Christ does this is being the Pascal Lamb to take away our sins. He takes our place and bore of punishment as our substitute. This is called the Passive Obedience of Christ. Now, as Christ lived on earth in human form, he lived a flawless live without sin.

Now, Christ was born of a women under the Law. The reason is to fulfill the broken Covenant of works that curses all mankind. He does this in the flesh because this is what Adam failed to do. And the only way we can be declared righteous before God because of Christ's righteousness being imputed to us and we can enter heaven. Without this righteousness that Christ merited for us, we will not be able to enter heaven.
​

The Fulfillment of the Law

Matt. 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18 For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.


​

I think the passive obedience, vs active obedience, is an unnecessary distinction. In the same way that a sinner rejects the Gospel because he is at enmity with God, and unable to believe, the sinner's every breath is at enmity with God. We constantly hear the notion that 'sin' is only 'sins', as though the non-believer was capable of doing true good. He is not —whether he thinks he meant rebellion or not, his every deed, word and thought is rebellious, and his very being is at enmity with God.

 

[Arial]

I think the passive obedience, vs active obedience, is an unnecessary distinction. In the same way that a sinner rejects the Gospel because he is at enmity with God, and unable to believe, the sinner's every breath is at enmity with God. We constantly hear the notion that 'sin' is only 'sins', as though the non-believer was capable of doing true good. He is not —whether he thinks he meant rebellion or not, his every deed, word and thought is rebellious, and his very being is at enmity with God.

Passive and active obedience in theology refer only to Christ. Active obedience refers to Christ's perfect keeping of the law. Passive obedience pertains to his suffering and death as a substitute for the sins of the believer. Both are necessary for salvation. Meet the requirements of God's law and provide atonement.

 

[Ladodgers6]

I think the passive obedience, vs active obedience, is an unnecessary distinction. In the same way that a sinner rejects the Gospel because he is at enmity with God, and unable to believe, the sinner's every breath is at enmity with God. We constantly hear the notion that 'sin' is only 'sins', as though the non-believer was capable of doing true good. He is not —whether he thinks he meant rebellion or not, his every deed, word and thought is rebellious, and his very being is at enmity with God.

Well, I beg to differ. These distinctions is crucial in understanding what Christ actually accomplished for our Justification. The active and passive obedience of Christ, emphasizing that both are crucial for our justification. Christ's passive obedience refers to his suffering and death on the cross, bearing the penalty for our sins and satisfying God's wrath. His active obedience refers to his perfect life of obedience to God's law, which is then credited to believers as righteousness.
​

Active Obedience:
Christ's lifelong obedience to God's law, fulfilling all its demands, is imputed to believers. This means that his perfect obedience becomes the basis for our justification, not our own imperfect obedience.

Passive Obedience:
Christ's suffering and death on the cross, where he bore the penalty for our sins, is also imputed to believers. This satisfies God's justice and atones for our sins.

Importance:
Both active and passive obedience are necessary for our salvation. Without Christ's active obedience, we would not have the righteousness required to stand before God. Without his passive obedience, we would still be under the penalty of sin.

Distinction:
The terms "active" and "passive" are used to distinguish between Christ's life of obedience and his suffering. However, some argue that all obedience, including Christ's, is both active and passive (meaning it involves both doing and suffering).

Basis of Justification:
Our justification is based solely on Christ's active and passive obedience, not on any merit or works of our own.

So, both are necessary; one passively deals with satisfying God's justice and wrath (PSA); atoning for our sins and guilt by a suffering life and death. Two, deals with giving us a perfect righteousness without blemish of sin, so we can stand righteous before God and enter heaven. If one only has remission of sins, they will not enter heaven. Why? Because a person needs a positive righteousness to God's Law to enter. This is precisely why Christ came not to abolish the Law but to fulfill it. And through Faith Alone the ungodly are justified apart from any works they do or will do.​

 

[Ladodgers6]

If it's not stated or taught in Scripture, I have not heard of it.

Okay, show me in Scripture the word "Trinity". Do you believe in the teaching of the Trinity? Show me the word in the Bible.

 

[Eleanor]

Okay, show me in Scripture the word "Trinity". Do you believe in the teaching of the Trinity? Show me the word in the Bible.

I don't find any distinction regarding Jesus "active" or "passive" work in Scripture, nor do I see any significance in that distinction.

I do find three divine persons presented in the NT, starting at Jesus' baptism and ending at Jesus' baptismal formula for the Christian.
Three distinct persons in one God is indeed significant!

 

[makesends]

Maybe the distinction is necessary for our mental convolutions, but as in the case of the reprobate, who are evil to the core, there is no real difference—their sin is pervasive, and as sin, whether they are aware of it or not, their sin is willful, at enmity with God. Also, you may be somewhat like me; seeing that the only good in me is Christ, I claim a different sort of monergism about sanctification —any good I do, is not I, but Christ in me. So, with Christ, whether you want to say passive or you want to say active, it was all purposefully done, whether done in/to him or by him. His heart, like nobody else, was pure, and it was God.

 

[makesends]

Passive and active obedience in theology refer only to Christ. Active obedience refers to Christ's perfect keeping of the law. Passive obedience pertains to his suffering and death as a substitute for the sins of the believer. Both are necessary for salvation. Meet the requirements of God's law and provide atonement.

Yes, I understood that from the first mention. My point is that for Christ, being God, he purposed it all, and to claim that his suffering and death was a separate matter from his purity of living, misrepresents the nature of who he was. None of it 'happened to him' that he did not intend.

 

[Arial]

Yes, I understood that from the first mention. My point is that for Christ, being God, he purposed it all, and to claim that his suffering and death was a separate matter from his purity of living, misrepresents the nature of who he was. None of it 'happened to him' that he did not intend.

The passive isn't separate from the active. The active simply means the work (perfect righteousness) that was necessary to make the passive, atonement, possible. But he didn't do the atonement, it was done to him, and he subjected himself willingly. It is very much a part of PSA.

 

[Hazelelponi]

So, with Christ, whether you want to say passive or you want to say active, it was all purposefully done, whether done in/to him or by him. His heart, like nobody else, was pure, and it was God.

We don’t normally think of lambs led to the slaughter as being “obedient” in any moral sense—they are passive participants, corralled and killed. Christ's death was His climactic obedience to the Father's redemptive will—a voluntary obedience that went beyond the Law in terms of condescension and sacrificial love.

Makes perfect sense to me to use the term.

 

[prism]

Makes perfect sense to me to use the term

So in His obeying unto death, did He passively obey in an active way, or did He actively obey in a passive way?

 

[Hazelelponi]

So in His obeying unto death, did He passively obey in an active way, or did He actively obey in a passive way?

Obedient in a passive way - "He opened not His mouth". (Isaiah 53:7; Acts 8;32; Genesis 22:8)

 

[Hazelelponi]

Obedient in a passive way - "He opened not His mouth". (Isaiah 53:7; Acts 8;32; Genesis 22:8)

I'm sorry, I hadn't realized I was being made a joke of so I answered.

I am not quick to understand mocking, as it's not what I consider expected behavior from Christians, so I don't look for it, or don't know to look for it.

 

[Ladodgers6]

I don't find any distinction regarding Jesus "active" or "passive" work in Scripture, nor do I see any significance in that distinction.

All righty then, I'll move on.

I do find three divine persons presented in the NT, starting at Jesus' baptism and ending at Jesus' baptismal formula for the Christian.
Three distinct persons in one God is indeed significant!

But there's no word "Trinity" found anywhere, correct?

 

[prism]

I'm sorry, I hadn't realized I was being made a joke of so I answered.

I am not quick to understand mocking, as it's not what I consider expected behavior from Christians, so I don't look for it, or don't know to look for it.

No, sorry I was not mocking. Just a personal struggle I have when grappling with the topic.

 

[makesends]

I'm sorry, I hadn't realized I was being made a joke of so I answered.

I am not quick to understand mocking, as it's not what I consider expected behavior from Christians, so I don't look for it, or don't know to look for it.

I don't think you were being mocked. I think he was just playing with words. It was funny to me, but not intended against you, as far as I can tell.

Nobody thinks quite the same as anyone else. I see that some people appreciate the distinction of passive vs active obedience as necessary, and some see it as confusing. I see it as unnecessary, and even somewhat misleading. But its ok with me if someone else needs it. It is not cardinal. But when @prism 's answer was demonstrative of how it can be confusing, I thought it was funny.

 

[Hazelelponi]

No, sorry I was not mocking. Just a personal struggle I have when grappling with the topic.

I answered you, it's fine.

And it's fine even if you were laughing at my beliefs or my wording. I try to be clear but often fall short. This is why I like the way some people explain using more words, because sometimes more words help make things more clear.

Sometimes there's topics we see in our reading of Scripture but don't know how to explain.

At any rate God bless you. Sorry for interjecting my thoughts.

 

[Eleanor]

All righty then, I'll move on.

But there's no word "Trinity" found anywhere, correct?

The issue is significance, which I'm not seeing in "passive" and "active" obedience.