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A Preterist problem passage?

No it did not

And even if it did. Not everyone could see. Jesus said when you see it standing in the holy place.. that was impossible in 70 AD

It was not the greatest tribulation that would ever happen, it has been trumped by 2 world wars

Well you have not proven me to be in error. All i see is you trying to put things that that are not there. So your point is moot. A

I have read them, I know they happened

I look for the day when they will be restored. Which they will. Even if I am not here.

Re the horrible turmoil
He was speaking directly to his followers about what they would face. He did not say people X000 years on the future. It was direct, vital, urgent,
 
No it did not

And even if it did. Not everyone could see. Jesus said when you see it standing in the holy place.. that was impossible in 70 AD

It was not the greatest tribulation that would ever happen, it has been trumped by 2 world wars

Well you have not proven me to be in error. All i see is you trying to put things that that are not there. So your point is moot. A

I have read them, I know they happened

I look for the day when they will be restored. Which they will. Even if I am not here.

All the things before v29 are 1st century Judean and all happened. Then the NT expects the end of the world, but also knows there is an allowance. It’s very clear and simple and dramatic.
 
No it did not

And even if it did. Not everyone could see. Jesus said when you see it standing in the holy place.. that was impossible in 70 AD

It was not the greatest tribulation that would ever happen, it has been trumped by 2 world wars

Well you have not proven me to be in error. All i see is you trying to put things that that are not there. So your point is moot. A

I have read them, I know they happened

I look for the day when they will be restored. Which they will. Even if I am not here.

What will be restored? It always wa about believers so that’s why this world ends—in Mt 24, in 2P3, in Revelation 20–without anything mentioned in Israel and this world is destroyed and the NHNE of Is 65 comes. And no physical features are the same anyway.
 
To see how embedded the vital history of the fulfilled destruction of Israel is in history, DM me for my links.

I assume you know Pastor Holfords work , since you looked up Josephus.
 
Eph 2-3 says that all the technical terms for Israel’s inheritance and membership are for all believers.
 
Btw ending life on earth does not cause the return of Jesus, but the reverse. A NHNE will be made and won’t have the same kind of corporeality as now


21. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would survive, but for the sake of the elect, those days will be shortened.

None of this happened or even came near to happen in any time in the past. Even until this day but especially in ad 70

You can not get passed this fact
 
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21. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would survive, but for the sake of the elect, those days will be shortened.

None of this happened or even came near to happen in any time in the past. Even until this day but especially in ad 70

You can not get passed this fact



Sure I can. You are missing the point I have made several times, the NT expected everything on earth to end right after the destruction of Israel. Given those parameters, and that he was speaking about Israel , it is correct.

I am also assuming you know that gea in Greek can just mean a country, not the planet. My 24 before v29 confines itself to things about Judea and what would affect it.
 
I was told again today that 'full preterism is a heresy' and I agree with the brother who said that; however, I am not, because even though the apostles expected the world to end after the destruction of Jerusalem (Mt 24, I Cor 7), the day of judgement has not happened--by delay by the Father. That means 'some, but not all' as elementary logic training tells us.

As for how the Rev treats this, it reminded me that the Bible has many wide-sweeping/ranging statements for which there is usually an important exception. God destroyed all flesh but of course that does not include Noah's family and animals, etc. Divorce is hated, but there is an exception that is allowed to a victim of cheating, or the unbeliever who wants out, etc.

The one in the Rev is that its first page says twice all these (devastating) things will take place right away. That is why there is the Judaic-laden imagery that destroys Israel for many chapters. Then we see Jerusalem destroyed by the very beast it rode upon for a short time. But then the long reign of Christ is proclaimed and all those who believe are part of it. It is here on earth and it ends. It even ends with a short period of deception of the world.

So now comes the key exception to the Rev's first page: this earth/universe is destroyed and another is set in place, the NHNE. But notice the details: it is not as corporeal as we were expecting. God is the light; Christ is the temple.

We should enjoy the simple delights of God's word but also be prepared for fine-grain distinctions: But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. Heb 5.
 
.....the day of judgement has not happened....
There are many days of judgment. When Scripture speaks of a "day" in the singular conjugation it almost always occur in a passage that indicates what day to which it is referring. The day of judgment for Jerusalem in 70 is a much different day of judgment than that mentioned in Jude concerned the disobedient angels. Both days of judgment are much different than the day of judgment each individual experiences when s/he dies and stands before God (such as that which is described in 1 Cor. 3:13-15). According to John 3, the judgment has already been rendered so what scripture is actually referring to is sentencing day; the day when God metes out the just recompense for how life was lived. God does not need to have a hearing for His benefit. He's omniscient. Any hearing that occurs is for the sake of the one already judged.

Therefore, many days of judgment have already happened, and many days of judgment will yet occur. All the statements about Jerusalem's day of judgment have all already occurred. That is the partial-preterists' position because scripture either states or implies that day of judgment would occur within the lifetimes of the NT audiences.

1 Corinthians 10:11
Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

The ends of the ages, not the end of the world, the ends of the ages had come. That end came during the days when the epistolary was written, and it culminated with the destruction of Jerusalem. The implication being we now live without ages, an ageless time where all the ages have ended. Any judgment that occurs herein is extra-age or ageless.
 
I was told again today that 'full preterism is a heresy' and I agree with the brother who said that; however, I am not, because even though the apostles expected the world to end after the destruction of Jerusalem (Mt 24, I Cor 7), the day of judgement has not happened--by delay by the Father. That means 'some, but not all' as elementary logic training tells us.
The ones that expect the world to end are modern day dispensationalists who interpret Revelation literalistically (when convenient for their eschatology). But wouldn't that destroy the Jews that were left behind in the so called pre-trib rapture to be saved during the tribulation and the 1000-year reign of Christ on earth?
 
1. 1 There was no abomination of desolation in 70 AD
It was in AD 66 when the armies showed up to surround Jerusalem - just as Luke 21:20 described what the "abomination of desolation" actually was. Many heeded Christ's warning when they saw this "abomination of desolation" in AD 66, and fled from Judea and Jerusalem for the mountains as Christ had told them to do.

2. There was no great tribulation at or near that time like has never been seen before or after (again WW1 and WW2 made 70 AD look like a picni
It was not the number of casualties from this AD 66-70 period that composed an unprecedented tribulation that would never be repeated in history to follow. It was the fact that the entire Satanic realm was imprisoned within the city of Jerusalem during those years, just as predicted by Isaiah 24:21-23 and Revelation 18:2. Jerusalem became a "habitation of devils, and a prison for every unclean spirit."

No city or nation had ever before or ever would in the future experience having the entire Satanic realm of evil coming to plague them as happened in Jerusalem in those AD 66-70 years. Christ had predicted this would happen in Matthew 12:43-45 for that wicked generation to experience in its "last state".

3. Nothing in 70 AD would have even come close to ending all life on earth cause ing the return of Jesus
You are mistakenly presuming that Matt. 24:22 is speaking about the entire globe. Christ was not speaking of the death of all mankind world-wide. In that Matthew 24 context, Christ was particularly concentrating on the land of Israel and what would happen to that nation and Jerusalem. The prediction for that nation of Israel during "the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem" (Zech. 12-14) was that "in all the land", (the land of Israel) two-thirds of them would be cut off and die, but that one third would be refined by the "fire" of God's judgment (Zech. 13:8-9). This one-third remnant would call on God's name and God would own this remnant as being His people. God shortened that great tribulation period in Israel to lasting only 3-1/2 years so that this elect remnant in Zechariah 13:9 could survive that great tribulation period by escaping to the mountains to wait out the war.

4. Jesus did not return there was no sign in heaven/
The "sign in heaven" which pointed to the date of Christ's return was the new moon's appearance in the sky. The priests in Israel would carefully watch for the first sign of the new moon in heaven, because this was what determined the festival date of the Passover, and consequently the day of Pentecost 50 days later.

Daniel 12:11-13 had predicted the exact day in which the resurrection of Daniel 12:1-2 would occur, which was to be at the end of those 1,335 days. That end of the 1,335th-day countdown fell on Pentecost day in AD 70 - the day in which Christ bodily returned to the Mount of Olives, just as Zech. 14:4-5 predicted He would do.

Even back in the post-exilic return with the temple rebuilt under Zerubbabel, the people were to worship by facing the eastern gate in the Sabbaths and the new moons. Only the Prince was to enter and leave by this eastern gate, and it was to be kept shut except for the Sabbaths and the new moons. All of that was symbolism foretelling the location and the timing of Christ's second coming return - to the Mount of Olives directly opposite this eastern gate with the Kidron Valley between.
 
The ones that expect the world to end are modern day dispensationalists who interpret Revelation literalistically (when convenient for their eschatology). But wouldn't that destroy the Jews that were left behind in the so called pre-trib rapture to be saved during the tribulation and the 1000-year reign of Christ on earth?

I was saying that in NT times, they expected the end, but also understood an allowance for delay.

I was not trying to make sense of beliefs held today. I believe today they solve your question by saying that there are a number of events after a rapture, and by thinking that a Davidic kingdom mentioned in Acts 2:30, 31 is after that rapture and trib.
 
I was saying that in NT times, they expected the end, but also understood an allowance for delay.

I was not trying to make sense of beliefs held today. I believe today they solve your question by saying that there are a number of events after a rapture, and by thinking that a Davidic kingdom mentioned in Acts 2:30, 31 is after that rapture and trib.
Now you just say end whereas before you said the apostles expected the world to end after 70A.D. and I do not find any evidence in the Scriptures that that is so. The apostles were looking forward to the bodily resurrection of believers and the earth made new and perfect. John certainly did (Rev 21).
 
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