3 Passages That Organize the Biblical Message

[EarlyActs]

The section ending Romans 9 and starting 10, Gal 3 on voiding and replacing the Promise , and Eph 3 on the shared benefits of all believers “through the Gospel” are definitive Biblical structure.

If you want to see justification best, you would be in ch 3:21-31. But not much of that is Biblical structure saying how the Promise, Law and Gospel relate.

If you want the most consequential eschatology about the 1st century you want the 3 related synoptic sections of Mt 24, Mk13 and Lk 24.

But again those are not the breadth and width of the 3 above.

(Cont.)

 

[Josheb]

The section ending Romans 9 and starting 10, Gal 3 on voiding and replacing the Promise , and Eph 3 on the shared benefits of all believers “through the Gospel” are definitive Biblical structure.

If you want to see justification best, you would be in ch 3:21-31. But not much of that is Biblical structure saying how the Promise, Law and Gospel relate.

If you want the most consequential eschatology about the 1st century you want the 3 related synoptic sections of Mt 24, Mk13 and Lk 24.

But again those are not the breadth and width of the 3 above.

(Cont.)

?????

You think Romans 9-10 are more critical than Romans 3-8? I could maybe get behind Genesis 3 because it ties conditions before Abraham through conditions with Abraham and thereafter all the way to Christ and the epistolary. Ephesians 3 is also questionable because that chapter is mostly about Paul and Paul's experience AND it is in no way more theologically important that chapter one! Little in chapter 3 has meaning (or as much meaning) apart from the first chapter.

And where is Hebrews? How is it nothing in Hebrews is cited as "organizing" and "definitive Biblical structure"?

Where is Genesis 1:1? Everything written in the Bible is predicated on the first verse.




Perhaps - before the thread gets going - you should take the time and provide a post defining your terms. What do you mean by "biblical message"? What do you mean when saying it is "organized"? What is it that you see as the "definitive biblical structure"? (as opposed to any non-definitive biblical structure) If you're using outside sources, then who/what are they? Help the reader understand because otherwise this op reads like a personal opinion no more or less important than the many personal opinions each respondent to the op will post.

 

[EarlyActs]

2:
In the first passage, we have a sweeping statement about the thinking of Paul about Israel in the 6th decade. Unfortunately, it is regarding the blindness of Israel, which will persist to the end of time, perhaps lifting for a short time (I spend almost no time on the future, as though it was some sort of theological "prize" to be a future expert).

The critical phrase is that they pursued righteousness as though it were by works. Actually, it could be translated with 'of the law' modifying righteousness, meaning that there was a way to observe the law without the works mentality attached, which put God in debt to the observer (11:35 from Job 41, one of the oldest Biblical texts.)

We see then, that the actual outcome God wished (the manifesting and mission of the righteousness that is by faith, 10:6) was not found or adopted by Israel, but they 'established their own' (10:3). Paul explains this as having its source in their zeal against the facts of the Gospel. That zeal had its roots in Eliezar and the Maccabees in the inter-testament period, forming a toxic sector of followers of Judaism by that name.

 

[EarlyActs]

3:
The above notes on Rom 9-10 don't appear to relate to the Promise and Law and Gospel elements that are in Galatians 3. But they do: they amount to mistaking the Law for a promise, pretty much removing what the Promise had said. Gal 3:17-18 repeat the problem clearly, with 2 verbs in v17 for the problem. "Someone" (guess whom?) has canceled a previous covenant and invalidated the promise. You might, borrowing on what Rom 9 said, put 'treated the previous covenant and promise as though canceled and invalidated.' Something has definitely been replaced! Not by God, of course, but in the mind of Judaism.

But v18 makes it clear that it can't be: the inheritance of being in Israel can't be based on law (this should sound much like Rom 9's 'sought to establish their own righteousness'), but was a promise. Just as Rom 9 said, one route cannot get to what God was offering, that route of works. Gal 3 says an inheritance based on the law is no longer based on a promise.

I won't take up the question of whether this meant the land of Israel, but there is no indication in Gal 3 that it does; only that there was something of huge value to the nations. It would be better to answer this in Eph 3, below.

(cont.)

 

[Josheb]

2:
In the first passage, we have a sweeping statement about the thinking of Paul about Israel in the 6th decade.

Yes, sort of, but that does not to say or prove that passage organizes the Bible (as a whole) or that it defines the Bible's structure. Do not assume these positions. Evidence them. First evidence that text as organizing and defining the whole and then, using that evidence, prove the positions asserted - and do so in a manner that disprove my initial inquiry and commentary (Post 2).

Unfortunately, it is regarding the blindness of Israel, which will persist to the end of time, perhaps lifting for a short time (I spend almost no time on the future, as though it was some sort of theological "prize" to be a future expert).

I tend to agree. The blindness of Israel is a small portion of the Bible, both historically and theologically. It is not something that defines or organizes the whole. The geo-political nation-state of Israel did not begin to exist until the 32nd and 33rd chapter of Exodus. There are centuries of Bible history preceding its inauguration and formation, and centuries more before God sent the prophets to highlight its blindness.

The critical phrase is that they pursued righteousness as though it were by works.

I agree they pursued righteousness (in blindness) by works and that is, indeed, what Paul is saying. That, however does not make the "phrase" organizing and defining of all scripture. One of the reasons I say that is because it is a negative, an antithesis. Using the blindness and works-basis that way is to define the Bible by what NOT to do. The better organizing and defining principles are positive and affirmative. TIn contrast to the blindness and works, the positive, affirmative organizing and defining precepts would be faith and sight. The righteous live by faith runs from the beginning of the Bible all the way through to its end. From Abel to John.

Actually, it could be translated with 'of the law' modifying righteousness, meaning that there was a way to observe the law without the works mentality attached, which put God in debt to the observer (11:35 from Job 41, one of the oldest Biblical texts.)

I again affirm what is written, but question that fact and truth as a concept organizing and defining the whole of the Bible. There is a difference between God's laws and God's Law. There has never been a time or place in creation where God's laws did not exist. When God blesses Adam and Eve and instructs them to be fruitful, multiply and subdue the earth that is a law of God. That is the command of God, the mission of Adam and Eve and, by extension, the mission of all humanity. That blessing, equipping, and directive is also something that runs through the Bible from its beginning to its end. The same holds true for "Do not eat... or you will die." That is an organizing and defining text of the Bible as a whole. There would be no Israel, blind or not, without that beginning. There'd be now Law. There would be laws, but not The Law. Neither would there be Romans 9-10.

We must, therefore, consider the first three chapters of Genesis critical, organizing and defining.

We see then, that the actual outcome God wished (the manifesting and mission of the righteousness that is by faith, 10:6) was not found or adopted by Israel, but they 'established their own' (10:3). Paul explains this as having its source in their zeal against the facts of the Gospel. That zeal had its roots in Eliezar and the Maccabees in the inter-testament period, forming a toxic sector of followers of Judaism by that name.

Yes. I again agree in part. the mission began in Genesis 1. There's no Romans 9-10 without it. Neither is there any gospel, nor any Revelation 21-22. Furthermore, as I alluded to in my op-reply, there is not Romans 9-10 without the case made - the theology - of Romans 3-8. Romans 3-8 is the critical text, the organizing and defining text. There is no Romans 9-10 without it. The same is true of Hebrews. It is in Hebrews where we find the survey of Bible history, the survey of the men of faith, and the Law's Christological significance explained, along with its ties to biblical ecclesiology.

 

[EarlyActs]

4: In this installment, we add one more thing to the clarity of the Bible's message. Rom 9 clarifies a failure; Gal 3 clarifies an attempt to replace; Eph 3 clarifies the unity of having the promise (that nearly got replaced in Gal 3).

All we need to see about Eph 3:5, 6 is that the emphatic prepositional phrase "in the Gospel" has been placed at the front because that defines the mystery. There was no mystery of outreach to the nations in Judaism, but they thought it was what they were doing through the Law, through their synagogues. The mystery was that the Promise and other benefits were shared with Israel through the Gospel.

We have to realize that like Gal 3, Paul is using Gospel here has a fundamental part of Christian truth about what has come in Christ, just as Gal 3 did (with 2 other terms Promise and Law, one about the forecast of Christ and the other a stage under which Israel was trained.)

 

[Soyeong]

The section ending Romans 9 and starting 10, Gal 3 on voiding and replacing the Promise , and Eph 3 on the shared benefits of all believers “through the Gospel” are definitive Biblical structure.

In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, in 1 Kings 2:1-2, God taught how to walk in His way through His law, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the law, which is eternal life (John 17:3).

In Romans 9:30-10:4. they had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowing Him, so they misunderstood the goal of the law by pursuing it as through righteousness were earned as the result of their works in order to establish their own instead of pursing the law as through righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 10:5-10, it references Deuteronomy 30:11-20 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to saying that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey, that obedience to it brings life and a blessing, in regard to what we are agreeing to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raise him from the dead.

If you want to see justification best, you would be in ch 3:21-31. But not much of that is Biblical structure saying how the Promise, Law and Gospel relate.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and God's law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which is in accordance with Jesus being sent in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26), which is the Gospel of the Kingdom that was made known in advance to Abraham in accordance with the promise (Galatians 3:8), and which he spread to those in Haran in accordance with the promise (Genesis 12:1-5).

In Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in His way by doing righteousness and justice that the Lord may bring to him all that He has promised. In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's children as the stars in the heave, to his children He will give all of these lands, and through his children all of the nations of the earth will be blessed because he heard God's voice and guarded His charge, commandments, statutes, and laws. In Deuteronomy 30:16, if the children of Abraham will love God with all of their heart by walking in God's way in obedience to His commandments, statutes, and laws, then they will live and multiply, and God will bless them in the land that they go to posses, which is again the word of faith that we proclaim (Romans 10:5-8). So the promise was made to Abraham and brought about because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his household to do that in accordance with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom, and because they did that.

In Psalms 119:1-3, God's law is how the children of Abraham know how to be blessed by walking in God's way, and in John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works as him, so the way that the children of Abraham are multiplied and are a blessing to the nations in accordance with inheriting the promise through faith is by turning the nations from their wickedness and teaching them to do the same works as Abraham by walking in God's way in obedience to His law in accordance with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom.

3:
The above notes on Rom 9-10 don't appear to relate to the Promise and Law and Gospel elements that are in Galatians 3. But they do: they amount to mistaking the Law for a promise, pretty much removing what the Promise had said. Gal 3:17-18 repeat the problem clearly, with 2 verbs in v17 for the problem. "Someone" (guess whom?) has canceled a previous covenant and invalidated the promise. You might, borrowing on what Rom 9 said, put 'treated the previous covenant and promise as though canceled and invalidated.' Something has definitely been replaced! Not by God, of course, but in the mind of Judaism.

But v18 makes it clear that it can't be: the inheritance of being in Israel can't be based on law (this should sound much like Rom 9's 'sought to establish their own righteousness'), but was a promise. Just as Rom 9 said, one route cannot get to what God was offering, that route of works. Gal 3 says an inheritance based on the law is no longer based on a promise.

I won't take up the question of whether this meant the land of Israel, but there is no indication in Gal 3 that it does; only that there was something of huge value to the nations. It would be better to answer this in Eph 3, below.

(cont.)

Something that is inherited is not something that is earned as the result of our works, so while the promise is not earned as the result of our works, that does not mean that the content of the promise is not in regard to blessing the nations by turning them from their wickedness and teaching them to obey God's law in accordance with the Gospel of the Kingdom. In Galatians 3:16-19, it is just as true that the New Covenant does not nullify the promise of a covenant that has already been ratified, so it is also true that it does not nullify our need to obey God's law in connection with the promise, but rather the New Covenant still involves following God's law (Jeremiah 31:33). Moreover, in Galatians 3:26-29, every aspect of being children of God, through faith, in Christ, and children of Abraham and heirs to the promise is directly connected to walking in obedience to God's law. In 1 John 2:6, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not children of God, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of God's law, and in 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked.

In Ephesians 3:6, the mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, so again it directly connects Gentiles inheriting the promise with being children of Abraham and spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom.

 

[EarlyActs]

In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, in 1 Kings 2:1-2, God taught how to walk in His way through His law, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the law, which is eternal life (John 17:3).

In Romans 9:30-10:4. they had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowing Him, so they misunderstood the goal of the law by pursuing it as through righteousness were earned as the result of their works in order to establish their own instead of pursing the law as through righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 10:5-10, it references Deuteronomy 30:11-20 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to saying that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey, that obedience to it brings life and a blessing, in regard to what we are agreeing to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raise him from the dead.


In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and God's law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which is in accordance with Jesus being sent in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26), which is the Gospel of the Kingdom that was made known in advance to Abraham in accordance with the promise (Galatians 3:8), and which he spread to those in Haran in accordance with the promise (Genesis 12:1-5).

In Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in His way by doing righteousness and justice that the Lord may bring to him all that He has promised. In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's children as the stars in the heave, to his children He will give all of these lands, and through his children all of the nations of the earth will be blessed because he heard God's voice and guarded His charge, commandments, statutes, and laws. In Deuteronomy 30:16, if the children of Abraham will love God with all of their heart by walking in God's way in obedience to His commandments, statutes, and laws, then they will live and multiply, and God will bless them in the land that they go to posses, which is again the word of faith that we proclaim (Romans 10:5-8). So the promise was made to Abraham and brought about because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his household to do that in accordance with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom, and because they did that.

In Psalms 119:1-3, God's law is how the children of Abraham know how to be blessed by walking in God's way, and in John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works as him, so the way that the children of Abraham are multiplied and are a blessing to the nations in accordance with inheriting the promise through faith is by turning the nations from their wickedness and teaching them to do the same works as Abraham by walking in God's way in obedience to His law in accordance with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom.



Something that is inherited is not something that is earned as the result of our works, so while the promise is not earned as the result of our works, that does not mean that the content of the promise is not in regard to blessing the nations by turning them from their wickedness and teaching them to obey God's law in accordance with the Gospel of the Kingdom. In Galatians 3:16-19, it is just as true that the New Covenant does not nullify the promise of a covenant that has already been ratified, so it is also true that it does not nullify our need to obey God's law in connection with the promise, but rather the New Covenant still involves following God's law (Jeremiah 31:33). Moreover, in Galatians 3:26-29, every aspect of being children of God, through faith, in Christ, and children of Abraham and heirs to the promise is directly connected to walking in obedience to God's law. In 1 John 2:6, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not children of God, in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of God's law, and in 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked.

In Ephesians 3:6, the mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, so again it directly connects Gentiles inheriting the promise with being children of Abraham and spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Sorry I don’t know what you are saying yourself. Or you just quote. Or you say the same thing I said.

Just take one thought and make a clear short reply.

 

[Soyeong]

Sorry I don’t know what you are saying yourself. Or you just quote. Or you say the same thing I said.

Just take one thought and make a clear short reply.

To summarize, the promise was made to Abraham and brought about because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his household to do that in accordance with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom, and because they also did that.

 

[EarlyActs]

To summarize, the promise was made to Abraham and brought about because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his household to do that in accordance with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom, and because they also did that.

So your concern is with post #4 on Gal 3. What does Gal 3 say the Promise was and how attained?

 

[Soyeong]

So your concern is with post #4 on Gal 3. What does Gal 3 say the Promise was and how attained?

In Galatians 3:6-9, the promise is that in Abraham shall all of the nations be blessed and the promise is attained through faith in it, which is also the way to be justified. The Gospel of the Kingdom is the way that the children of Abraham know how to be blessed, so the way to inherit the promise through faith is through spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom to the nations by turning the nations from their wickedness and teaching them to do the same works as Abraham by walking in God's way in obedience to His law, which is in accordance with Jesus being sent in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26).

 

[EarlyActs]

In Galatians 3:6-9, the promise is that in Abraham shall all of the nations be blessed and the promise is attained through faith in it, which is also the way to be justified. The Gospel of the Kingdom is the way that the children of Abraham know how to be blessed, so the way to inherit the promise through faith is through spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom to the nations by turning the nations from their wickedness and teaching them to do the same works as Abraham by walking in God's way in obedience to His law, which is in accordance with Jesus being sent in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26).

How did Judaism replace the Promise with the Law like 17 says?

 

[Soyeong]

How did Judaism replace the Promise with the Law like 17 says?

Galatians 3:17 doesn't say anything about Judaism replacing the promise with the law, but rather says that the law does not make the promise void. There is nothing that we are required to have done first in order to earn the promise as the result, but rather the promise is inherited and something that we inherit is not earned, though that does not mean that content of the promise is not in regard to what we do. Likewise, in Luke 10:25-28, Jesus said that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments of the Mosaic Law, he was not speaking about earning eternal life as the result of our obedience to it, though it nevertheless still involves our obedience. For some reason, people commonly misunderstand the goal of God's law as being about trying to earn something as the result through our own efforts, which causes them to further mistake the Bible speaking against trying to do that as speaking against obeying God's law instead of correcting their misunderstanding of the goal of the law and obeying God's law with the correct goal.

 

[EarlyActs]

Galatians 3:17 doesn't say anything about Judaism replacing the promise with the law, but rather says that the law does not make the promise void. There is nothing that we are required to have done first in order to earn the promise as the result, but rather the promise is inherited and something that we inherit is not earned, though that does not mean that content of the promise is not in regard to what we do. Likewise, in Luke 10:25-28, Jesus said that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments of the Mosaic Law, he was not speaking about earning eternal life as the result of our obedience to it, though it nevertheless still involves our obedience. For some reason, people commonly misunderstand the goal of God's law as being about trying to earn something as the result through our own efforts, which causes them to further mistake the Bible speaking against trying to do that as speaking against obeying God's law instead of correcting their misunderstanding of the goal of the law and obeying God's law with the correct goal.

He doesn’t name Judaism; he speaks in a passive voice—that the Promise was voided and replaced. (Not by God!) Who did that? When?

When you see that , you won’t say “for some reason”. But your last line is way too long with too many dependent clauses.

 

[EarlyActs]

To summarize, the promise was made to Abraham and brought about because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his household to do that in accordance with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom, and because they also did that.

The masthead line about Abraham is that “he believed God (about the Gospel rendering in the stars) and God credited it to him as righteousness (justified him from his sins).” Abraham saw Christs “day” and rejoiced.

 

[Soyeong]

He doesn’t name Judaism; he speaks in a passive voice—that the Promise was voided and replaced. (Not by God!) Who did that? When?

He didn't say that the promise was voided and replaced, but rather he said that God's law does not make the promise void. He gave an example to illustrate his point that even with man-made covenants, no one nullifies it or adds to it once it has been ratified and that the promise is inherited rather than earned, not saying that people voided and replaced the promise.

When you see that , you won’t say “for some reason”. But your last line is way too long with too many dependent clauses.

Sorry for not being clear. People commonly misunderstand the goal of the law to be to earn something as the result of our obedience to it, such as earning the promise, justification, righteousness, salvation, and eternal life. For example, in Luke 10:25-28, Jesus said that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments, so some people misunderstand that as saying that we need to have first done a good enough job of obeying those commandments and then we earn eternal life as the result, however, something that is inherited is not something that is earned, so that is not what he was speaking about. The Bible spends a lot of time speaking against that misunderstanding of the goal of the law, such as saying that we are made righteous apart from works (Romans 3:27), but people commonly make the mistake that the intended goal of the law is to earn our righteousness, so they mistake of interpreting Romans 3:27 as speaking against obeying God's law for its intended goal instead of as speaking against a misunderstanding of its goal. This is in spite of Romans 3:31 saying that the faith by which we are declared righteous does not abolish our need to obey God's law, but rather our faith upholds it. Likewise, the goal of the law is not to earn the promise, but that doesn't mean that the goal of the law is not part of the content of the promise as the means through which all the nations of the earth will be blessed.

The masthead line about Abraham is that “he believed God (about the Gospel rendering in the stars) and God credited it to him as righteousness (justified him from his sins).” Abraham saw Christs “day” and rejoiced.

Abraham believed God by being an obeyer of His command to offer Isaac and he was justified by that faith (Hebrews 11:17, James 2:21-24). Likewise, Abraham believed God by being spreader of the Gospel of the Kingdom. In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's children as the stars in the heaven, to his children He will give all of these lands, and this his children all of the nations of the earth will be blessed because he heard God's voice and guarded His charge, commandments, statutes, and laws, which was in accordance with the Gospel of the Kingdom.

 

[EarlyActs]

He didn't say that the promise was voided and replaced, but rather he said that God's law does not make the promise void. He gave an example to illustrate his point that even with man-made covenants, no one nullifies it or adds to it once it has been ratified and that the promise is inherited rather than earned, not saying that people voided and replaced the promise.


Sorry for not being clear. People commonly misunderstand the goal of the law to be to earn something as the result of our obedience to it, such as earning the promise, justification, righteousness, salvation, and eternal life. For example, in Luke 10:25-28, Jesus said that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments, so some people misunderstand that as saying that we need to have first done a good enough job of obeying those commandments and then we earn eternal life as the result, however, something that is inherited is not something that is earned, so that is not what he was speaking about. The Bible spends a lot of time speaking against that misunderstanding of the goal of the law, such as saying that we are made righteous apart from works (Romans 3:27), but people commonly make the mistake that the intended goal of the law is to earn our righteousness, so they mistake of interpreting Romans 3:27 as speaking against obeying God's law for its intended goal instead of as speaking against a misunderstanding of its goal. This is in spite of Romans 3:31 saying that the faith by which we are declared righteous does not abolish our need to obey God's law, but rather our faith upholds it. Likewise, the goal of the law is not to earn the promise, but that doesn't mean that the goal of the law is not part of the content of the promise as the means through which all the nations of the earth will be blessed.


Abraham believed God by being an obeyer of His command to offer Isaac and he was justified by that faith (Hebrews 11:17, James 2:21-24). Likewise, Abraham believed God by being spreader of the Gospel of the Kingdom. In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's children as the stars in the heaven, to his children He will give all of these lands, and this his children all of the nations of the earth will be blessed because he heard God's voice and guarded His charge, commandments, statutes, and laws, which was in accordance with the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Glad you got your issues sorted out. Are you interested in mine?

There is a misunderstanding about Abraham’s seeing Christs day. It is the message he saw in the ancient sky, related to what was seen at the nativity. Cp Larson THE BETHLEHEM STAR. Nothing to do with the Isaac event. Nor the number, bc as you can see from Gal 3:15, the number hinged on one Person , the Seed.

None of this is what these three passages are about.

 

[Soyeong]

Glad you got your issues sorted out. Are you interested in mine?

There is a misunderstanding about Abraham’s seeing Christs day. It is the message he saw in the ancient sky, related to what was seen at the nativity. Cp Larson THE BETHLEHEM STAR. Nothing to do with the Isaac event. Nor the number, bc as you can see from Gal 3:15, the number hinged on one Person , the Seed.

None of this is what these three passages are about.

In Genesis 26:4, God said that he would multiply Abraham's children as the starts in the heaven, so it is speaking about the number, and it is through Isaac that the promise shall be reckoned. In Acts 3:25-26, Jesus came in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from our wickedness, and in John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works, and in Galatians 3:7, those who are of faith are the children of Abraham, so the way that the children of Abraham are multiplied and are a blessing to the nations in accordance with inheriting the promise through faith is by turning the nations from their wickedness and teaching them to do the same works as Abraham by walking in God's way in obedience to His law. In other words, the promise is in regard to the Seed who blesses us by turning us from our wickedness, so the way that we inherit that promise through faith is by joining in his mission of blessing people by turning them from their wickedness in accordance with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom.

 

[EarlyActs]

He didn't say that the promise was voided and replaced, but rather he said that God's law does not make the promise void. He gave an example to illustrate his point that even with man-made covenants, no one nullifies it or adds to it once it has been ratified and that the promise is inherited rather than earned, not saying that people voided and replaced the promise.


Sorry for not being clear. People commonly misunderstand the goal of the law to be to earn something as the result of our obedience to it, such as earning the promise, justification, righteousness, salvation, and eternal life. For example, in Luke 10:25-28, Jesus said that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments, so some people misunderstand that as saying that we need to have first done a good enough job of obeying those commandments and then we earn eternal life as the result, however, something that is inherited is not something that is earned, so that is not what he was speaking about. The Bible spends a lot of time speaking against that misunderstanding of the goal of the law, such as saying that we are made righteous apart from works (Romans 3:27), but people commonly make the mistake that the intended goal of the law is to earn our righteousness, so they mistake of interpreting Romans 3:27 as speaking against obeying God's law for its intended goal instead of as speaking against a misunderstanding of its goal. This is in spite of Romans 3:31 saying that the faith by which we are declared righteous does not abolish our need to obey God's law, but rather our faith upholds it. Likewise, the goal of the law is not to earn the promise, but that doesn't mean that the goal of the law is not part of the content of the promise as the means through which all the nations of the earth will be blessed.


Abraham believed God by being an obeyer of His command to offer Isaac and he was justified by that faith (Hebrews 11:17, James 2:21-24). Likewise, Abraham believed God by being spreader of the Gospel of the Kingdom. In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's children as the stars in the heaven, to his children He will give all of these lands, and this his children all of the nations of the earth will be blessed because he heard God's voice and guarded His charge, commandments, statutes, and laws, which was in accordance with the Gospel of the Kingdom.

In 3:17 someone is treating the law as though it voided and replaced the promise. It is against reality to do so, but Judaism was doing so.

 

[EarlyActs]

In Genesis 26:4, God said that he would multiply Abraham's children as the starts in the heaven, so it is speaking about the number, and it is through Isaac that the promise shall be reckoned. In Acts 3:25-26, Jesus came in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from our wickedness, and in John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works, and in Galatians 3:7, those who are of faith are the children of Abraham, so the way that the children of Abraham are multiplied and are a blessing to the nations in accordance with inheriting the promise through faith is by turning the nations from their wickedness and teaching them to do the same works as Abraham by walking in God's way in obedience to His law. In other words, the promise is in regard to the Seed who blesses us by turning us from our wickedness, so the way that we inherit that promise through faith is by joining in his mission of blessing people by turning them from their wickedness in accordance with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Treat yourself to some punctuation and simplify your sentences! Most of what you said I agree with but it is sideways to my topic.

In this thread, there is something 1st cent Judaism did in 3 ways against what was in its own scripture. In the Gal 3 case , it was to void the promise by the law, against reality.

In Rom 9-10 it was to establish its own righteousness, not one by faith in Christ.

In Eph 3 it was to seek a unity of Jew and gentile through the law, not through the gospel.

There is a verb in Gen 15 about ‘reading’ or ‘calculating’ the stars that is a play on God ‘crediting’ righteousness to Abraham. It is separate from the counting of the number, but Gal 3 tells us it is only the one Seed , Christ, that is important for this, bc the big multiple is through Him.

God was having Abraham look forward to what the stars would say in the future—Christs day, Jn 8. A king savior would be born in Israel, the same person met in ch 14, a king-priest of Jerusalem.