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Why is Jesus called the Only Begottten Son?

The traditional viewpoint is Jesus was half humam and half divine IN HIS PHYSICAL CONSTITUTION...
Contradiction of terms. . .the divine cannot be physical.
because a female ovum was contributed to his physical constitution by Mary.

Physical constitution and ontology are being confused. Jesus' ontology (his nature) was fully God and fully man was never denied, disputed, or called into question. Please read more carefully, think about what is posted, and stop wasting my time. Thanks.[/u][/u]
It was not the traditional view that Jesus was 50% human and 50% divine.
The divine is not his physical constitution.

Jesus was 100% human and 100% divine, for he possessed two natures, human and divine, each 100%.[/u][/u]
 
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No., That would make him a creature. "He became." "He came as." It is an addition, not a subtraction.
"He became" and "he came as" are not the same.

The Biblical text is "he became" flesh.

Would he not have to be a "creature" to pay for the sin of "creatures?"
 
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Incorrect. . .where do we find this viewpoint?
We find this viewpoint in the viewpoint that asserts a female ovum was provided by Mary. That is, unless you think the ovum Mary contributed was not a human ovum.


Are you understanding that premise?

If Mary provided an ovum from her ovaries, then half of his physical constitution is human!!!

The ovum half is human!

Think

it

through​



That has nothing to do with Jesus being fully God and fully human.
 
Contradiction of terms. . .the divine cannot be physical.
Exactly. An ovum contributed by Mary would not be divine. It would be fleshly, humanly fleshly. Since Mary was a sinner the ovum contributed would be part of her sinful flesh, NOT something divine....... because the divine cannot be physical.


However, that being said, the statement "the divine cannot be physical" is incorrect. Jesus is divine and Jesus is also physical. The whole point of the incarnation is that the logos of God that is God became flesh. The divine became physical. The question being discussed (tangentially) is.....

Was that flesh a product of a sinful woman's ovum plus the Holy Spirit OR a product of the Spirit alone?

If Mary contributed an ovum, then Jesus' physical constitution was not solely a product of the Spirit. It was a product of flesh+Spirit = fleshly flesh from a human, not flesh incarnated by the Spirit alone.
It was not the traditional view that Jesus was 50% human and 50% divine. The divine is not his physical constitution. Jesus was 100% human and 100% divine, for he possessed two natures, human and divine, each 100%.
You do not seem to be following the actual content of my posts. You appear to be caught up and unnecessarily prejudiced by the doctrine of the Trinity, but this has absolutely nothing to do with the Trinity. My statement about the Mary-contributing-an-ovum-makes-Jesus'-physical-constitution-half-human caught your attention because you think it contradicts the doctrine of the Trinity when it has nothing to do with the Trinity. The word "constitution" is, in this sense, being used to mean his make-up. Jesus was made up out of th Spirit plus a human ovum. Half Spirit. Half human.

Are you following now?
 
"He became" and "he came as" are not the same.

The Biblical text is "he became" flesh.

Would he not have to be a "creature" to pay for the sin of "creatures?"
What is the difference between "he became flesh" and "he came as one of us (flesh)"?

If he were a creature he would not have enough inherrent value to pay for anyone's sins. Creature can't save creature. Only the Creator can save the creature. He had to have flesh and blood in order to die a substitutionary death for those who have flesh and blood. "Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness."
 
"He became" and "he came as" are not the same. The Biblical text is "he became" flesh.
Was the flesh he became partly due to Mary's ovum or entirely that of the Holy Spirit making him flesh in Mary's womb without an ovum from Mary?
Would he not have to be a "creature" to pay for the sin of "creatures?"
No.

Scripture is fairly clear: Jesus is the Creator and not a created creature. This is implied by every comparison made between God and Jesus in which creative faculties and causation are reported. The whole point of the preamble to John's gospel is that Jesus pre-existed creation. He was there at the beginning. He was with God in the beginning. He was there with God in the beginning as God!!! Jesus is Creator, not creature.

We might even say one of the reasons Jesus is "only begotten" is because he is the only son (or daughter) not created. All the rest of us are created creatures. All created human creatures have sinned and thereby fallen short of God's glory so, therefore, it is impossible for any created creature to pay for the sin of creatures. It necessarily had to be a non-created human paying for the creatures' sin.
 
No., That would make him a creature. "He became." "He came as." It is an addition, not a subtraction.
How would adding a human nature (becoming flesh) be a subtraction?
 
"He became" and "he came as" are not the same.

The Biblical text is "he became" flesh.

Would he not have to be a "creature" to pay for the sin of "creatures?"
I've always said he had to be God, to pay for the sin of creatures —that is, that mere creature could not do it. I can't say I've really considered whether God could do it without becoming creature. Interesting. Feels balanced, and answers a lot of questions... Can't see any logical or scriptural reason to reject the notion. Particularly when it is obvious that is exactly what he did.
 
We find this viewpoint in the viewpoint that asserts a female ovum was provided by Mary. That is, unless you think the ovum Mary contributed was not a human ovum.


Are you understanding that premise?

If Mary provided an ovum from her ovaries, then half of his physical constitution is human!!!

The ovum half is human!

Think

it

through​



That has nothing to do with Jesus being fully God and fully human.
The "male half" [sperm as it were] 'contributed' by God, does not mean that contribution is no less human and more divine. It only means he was not a descendent of Joseph, but of God. Where's the problem?

So, no, I don't see where @Eleanor is wrong here. If that's the only reason to say that traditionally he has been considered 50-50, then I have to disagree with you.
 
Exactly. An ovum contributed by Mary would not be divine. It would be fleshly, humanly fleshly. Since Mary was a sinner the ovum contributed would be part of her sinful flesh, NOT something divine....... because the divine cannot be physical.
Explain: "...the divine cannot be physical." Why? How not? Cannot God do as he pleases? Seems to me an unsupported assertion.

Now, granted, the divine cannot be merely physical. At least not as we humans currently consider the term.
 
How would adding a human nature (becoming flesh) be a subtraction?
It wouldn't. Some think Jesus coming in the flesh is something taken away from deity.
 
Exactly. An ovum contributed by Mary would not be divine. It would be fleshly, humanly fleshly. Since Mary was a sinner the ovum contributed would be part of her sinful flesh, NOT something divine....... because the divine cannot be physical.
However, that being said, the statement "the divine cannot be physical" is incorrect. Jesus is divine and Jesus is also physical.
That's a fail.
Jesus is both divine and physical because Jesus has two natures, human and divine, the only human in the world who ever has or will have.[/quote]
The whole point of the incarnation is that the logos of God that is God became flesh. The divine became physical. The question being discussed (tangentially) is.....
Was that flesh a product of a sinful woman's ovum plus the Holy Spirit OR a product of the Spirit alone?
If Mary contributed an ovum, then Jesus' physical constitution was not solely a product of the Spirit. It was a product of flesh+Spirit = fleshly flesh from a human, not flesh incarnated by the Spirit alone.
You do not seem to be following the actual content of my posts. You appear to be caught up and unnecessarily prejudiced by the doctrine of the Trinity, but this has absolutely nothing to do with the Trinity. My statement about the Mary-contributing-an-ovum-makes-Jesus'-physical-constitution-half-human caught your attention because you think it contradicts the doctrine of the Trinity when it has nothing to do with the Trinity. The word "constitution" is, in this sense, being used to mean his make-up. Jesus was made up out of th Spirit plus a human ovum. Half Spirit. Half human.
Are you following now?
It seems you aren't, because with two natures, Jesus is both 100% human and 100% divine in one and the same person, not 50/50 of each.
Your human reasoning is failing you in regard to the Incarnation.
 
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What is the difference between "he became flesh" and "he came as one of us (flesh)"?
The latter posits flesh before his physical existence on earth.
If he were a creature he would not have enough inherrent value to pay for anyone's sins.

Creature can't save creature. Only the Creator can save the creature.
The human can't merit forgiveness for offense to the Divine.
Only the Divine can merit it.
He had to have flesh and blood in order to die a substitutionary death for those who have flesh and blood. "Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness."
 
How does adding sin subtract from goodness?
Jesus' flesh was not sinful, or it could not have served as the redeeming sacrifice.

God's reckoning is not man's reckoning, for God reckons through the father only.
 
It seems you aren't, because with two natures...
The original comment was not about his nature. Thinking it is about his nature is a mistake. Do you know and understand the differences between mereology (the study of parts and their relationship to one another), teleology (the design, function and purpose), and ontology (the nature of a thing)? The original comment in Post #47 has nothing to do with ontology, or the nature of Christ.

This (Mary not contributing an egg) goes against the traditional viewpoint in which Mary contributed an egg, or ovum, and Jesus was half-human and half Spirit in his physical constitution, as a matter of biological conception.​

That has nothing to do with the ontological doctrine of Christ being fully God and fully human.
 
Explain: "...the divine cannot be physical." Why? How not? Cannot God do as he pleases? Seems to me an unsupported assertion.

Now, granted, the divine cannot be merely physical. At least not as we humans currently consider the term.
Please re-read the thread, or at least the set of posts that led to my inclusion of the words, "the divine cannot be physical," because I was quoting another poster. Those were not my words, nor is that my position and I explained how and why that is not my position so Post 70 is not only misguided; it's unnecessary. Every single one of those questions have all already been answered.

Go ask to poster who originally claimed the divine cannot be physical all those questions.
 
This thread is weird. I don't remember why I started it. I don't even remember starting it! I must have read something in Mormonism that caused me to bring it up!
 
.
FAQ: How is it possible for the Word's incarnation to be Adam's descendant when
Jesus' mom slept with no man to conceive baby Jesus?


REPLY: In the beginning, Eve was constructed with material taken from Adam's
body. In other words: her body became a biological extension of Adam's body.
Thus: any offspring produced by any part of Eve's body-- either virgin conceived or
naturally conceived --would be Adam's offspring too.

So then; unless someone can show how Mary wasn't one of Eve's descendants,
then we have to concede that any offspring produced by any part of Mary's body
would be in turn be Eve's descendant, and as such Adam's too.


FAQ: What part of Mary's body, if any, was used to produce baby Jesus?

REPLY: Her womb. (Luke 1:31, Luke 1:42, and Gal 4:4)

_
 
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.
The status of born-again Christians in God's family circle is that of adopted children.
(Rom 8:15, Gal 4:5, Eph 1:15)

Jesus' status is many times more superior than theirs because he's in God's family
circle as a paternal child; in point of fact, as God's one and only paternal child.
(John 1:14 John 1:18 John 3:16, John 3:18, 1John 4:9)

Regardless of how people believe Jesus might've obtained his paternal status, and
regardless of whether his paternal status is actual or administrative, the status
entitles Jesus to be known as God's direct descendant-- a position whereby the
rules of heredity entitle Jesus to be known by his Father's name, which most
everybody knows is Jehovah, a.k.a. Yahweh. (cf. Heb 1:4-5)

Now if so that God actually fathered a direct descendant, the result is as divine as
Himself just as when a man fathers a direct descendant, the result is as human as
himself, i.e. more of his own kind. So then, in his status as God's direct
descendant, Jesus is entitled to be known as deity, i.e. the one true authentic deity.


NOTE: I'm not suggesting that Jesus' association with God is biological. The thing
is: I don't know how else to explain their unique relationship except in terms familiar
to us all.
_
 
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