Why are divorce and remarriage okay?

[Hazelelponi]

Oh goody, I get to do the soapbox thing again!

Why in the world do CHRISTIANS have to figure out right and wrong? To know how close they can come to wrong? To get "permission" to do what they already want to do?

God HATES divorce! Paul allowed it because of the hardness of their hearts. "But I call you to peace" is probably a more important statement than the 'exception clauses'.

The problem I see is all these people running around acting like non-believers in churches.

I don't know what we are supposed to do with them, but I guess all we can do is the best we can on situational advice giving.

I don't know what else we are supposed to do... Each interpersonal situation is going to be unique.

Women think I'm mean because I keep telling them to stop whining because they haven't met bad... Lol


Edit to add:

okay fine I whine about some things myself but it's not like I'm that serious about it ..

Sigh. Lol.

 

[Rescued One]

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to sound ignorant or judgmental. I don't believe everyone who attends a church is a Christian, but I struggle with the idea of churches not teaching morality. I was dropprd as a friend by someone who told me that verbal abuse isn't abuse. She may have had other reasons, but I didn't know what they were.
I like sermons that tell us how to live.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to sound ignorant or judgmental. I don't believe everyone who attends a church is a Christian, but I struggle with the idea of churches not teaching morality. I was dropprd as a friend by someone who told me that verbal abuse isn't abuse. She may have had other reasons, but I didn't know what they were.
I like sermons that tell us how to live.

I think they teach morality in that they teach from GOD'S Word.

We learn as we grow how to apply faith in action.

It's interesting to consider different topics, but most people want to live in grey areas and I see the world in black and white.

I don't think Jesus did grey areas... In fact, HE acted to make everything more black and white.

When x is right, everything outside of it is wrong, whether we like it or not, and when y is wrong then y is just wrong.

When we sin against God we ask forgiveness.

Our foremost concern is HIS Glory, and second is not to make light of sin, or to allow sin to stop us from doing what's right.

It's the later that's more difficult I think, and that's where we need to become like iron, absolutely unbendable.

You might enjoy A Christian in Complete Armor Volume 1 by William Gurnall. It's very good...

 

[Rescued One]

I think they teach morality in that they teach from GOD'S Word.

We learn as we grow how to apply faith in action.

It's interesting to consider different topics, but most people want to live in grey areas and I see the world in black and white.

I don't think Jesus did grey areas... In fact, HE acted to make everything more black and white.

When x is right, everything outside of it is wrong, whether we like it or not, and when y is wrong then y is just wrong.

When we sin against God we ask forgiveness.

Our foremost concern is HIS Glory, and second is not to make light of sin, or to allow sin to stop us from doing what's right.

It's the later that's more difficult I think, and that's where we need to become like iron, absolutely unbendable.

You might enjoy A Christian in Complete Armor Volume 1 by William Gurnall. It's very good...

The Wesleyan and Nazarene churches I attended didn't teach morality.

 

[Hazelelponi]

The Wesleyan and Nazarene churches I attended didn't teach morality.

I thought they were the people who believed in extra morality or something. They often seemed to me to be associated with or to associate with the word holiness.

I guess I misread what they believed or at least what they taught.

The Puritans were good at morality I think. Excellent direction for morality anyway.

 

[Rescued One]

I thought they were the people who believed in extra morality or something. They often seemed to me to be associated with or to associate with the word holiness.

I guess I misread what they believed or at least what they taught.

Church of the Nazarene was so incredibly strict before that people would be shocked to see the difference now. I don't know what Wesleyans were like before the late seventies.

 

[Rescued One]

I thought they were the people who believed in extra morality or something. They often seemed to me to be associated with or to associate with the word holiness.

I guess I misread what they believed or at least what they taught.

The Puritans were good at morality I think. Excellent direction for morality anyway.

No, I don't think you misread anything. Nazarenes used to have rules about modest dress, makeup, avoiding movies, etc. Now Sundays in most churches seem to be for "feel good sermons." I welcome disagreement about this since I can't get out anymore. There's a lot of musical entertaiment today, too.

 

[Rescued One]

The Wesleyan and Nazarene churches I attended didn't teach morality.

I'm talking about semons.

 

[Rescued One]

The Divine Design for Marriage, Part 1

Well, this morning we come to Ephesians 5 and the subject of marriage. And this is going to be a very politically incorrect experience for all of...

www.gty.org

 

[Hazelelponi]

I'm talking about semons.

Ah.. I stick with a very limited selection of sermons to listen to and not all are among the living.

I listen to Paul Washer's sermons, to Voddie Baucham, to Sproul, to Charles Spurgeon and then random ministries like Ligonier ministries or founders ministries or wretched on occasion if it's a good topic.

I don't listen to MacArthur but he does have some moral preaching, I'm not a dispensationalist though and I find the teachings surrounding it to be irritating, but that's a personal gripe. I just don't like listening to him so I pretty much never recommend, I don't much think about it really.

But if you don't mind built in commercials as well as MacArthur and some other good preachers as previously reported you might check out founders ministries, they have built in commercials to support the show but they are just two guys talking and they are good, it's very learning and understanding based and they might also touch periodically on moral or ethical considerations.

Plus founders has conference sermons which can be riveting. So does Ligonier on that front.

Oh, and when I make lists like this it's just all I can think of off the top of my head in the moment.

 

[EarlyActs]

I'm talking about semons.

By Wesleyan do you mean Methodist; most Methodist I now know are avant garde destructive morality.

 

[Rescued One]

By Wesleyan do you mean Methodist; most Methodist I now know are avant garde destructive morality.

Wesleyan is a separate denomination from United Methodist which is very liberal.

 

[Rescued One]

I am not a dispensaltionalist, never have been, and don't know who is. Sorry for the mistake.

 

[makesends]

Wesleyan is a separate denomination from United Methodist which is very liberal.

Yep. Even 40 years ago, I remember hearing (from Wesleyan-istic believers) that if a denomination or group includes "United" in their name, stay away from them; that they are going or already are liberal and humanistic.

40-60 years ago, I'd say, Wesleyan-'guided' denominations were generally VERY fundamentalistic. I can't speak to what they have generally been like since, other than to say that those with whom I've had contact seem the same as before, though more easily influenced by 'new theologies' such as Flowers' Provisionism and whoever redefines the Gospel by clever turns of phrase and thought. I suppose, in thought, that Wesleyanism as it was even 60 years ago provided such strong self-contradictions that the proponents would be happy to hear something that would seem to cancel out the mind's nagging protests against Wesleyan theology.

 

[Tambora]

God HATES divorce! Paul allowed it because of the hardness of their hearts. "

Well, it wasn't actually Paul that allowed divorce because of hardened hearts.
According to Jesus, it was added to the law by Moses because of hardened hearts.

Matthew 19:8​

He [Jesus] said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.​

Jesus expounds on this in the book of Mark.

Mark 10​

(5) And Jesus said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart he [Moses] wrote you this commandment.​

(6) But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’​

(7) ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife,​

(8) and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh.​

(9) What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”​

 

[makesends]

Well, it wasn't actually Paul that allowed divorce because of hardened hearts.
According to Jesus, it was added to the law by Moses because of hardened hearts.

Yes, I misspoke in my haste.

Matthew 19:8​

He [Jesus] said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.​

Jesus expounds on this in the book of Mark.

Mark 10​

(5) And Jesus said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart he [Moses] wrote you this commandment.​

(6) But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’​

(7) ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife,​

(8) and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh.​

(9) What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”​

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Tambora]

Yes, I misspoke in my haste.

Thanks for the correction.

Happens to the best of us.
I know you knew, but didn't want other readers to accept what you said in haste.

 

[EarlyActs]

Do you find that Wesleyan are not concerned about morality these days?

Of course, in this question, one level of morality is the act of unfaithfulness. The 2nd level is how divorce and remarriage are justified.

 

[Rescued One]

Do you find that Wesleyan are not concerned about morality these days?

Of course, in this question, one level of morality is the act of unfaithfulness. The 2nd level is how divorce and remarriage are justified.

1. I was only referring to sermons.
2. These days I am not attending a Wesleyan church and therefore cannot comment on their sermons.