• **Notifications**: Notifications can be dismissed by clicking on the "x" on the righthand side of the notice.
  • **New Style**: You can now change style options. Click on the paintbrush at the bottom of this page.
  • **Donations**: If the Lord leads you please consider helping with monthly costs and up keep on our Forum. Click on the Donate link In the top menu bar. Thanks
  • **New Blog section**: There is now a blog section. Check it out near the Private Debates forum or click on the Blog link in the top menu bar.
  • Welcome Visitors! Join us and be blessed while fellowshipping and celebrating our Glorious Salvation In Christ Jesus.

Whoever is born of God cannot sin?

What is the meaning of this? Whoever is born of God cannot sin. Yet in 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 2:1 below, it seems to say we sin

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. 1 John 5:8

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8.

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1 John 2:1.


Thoughts? And reasoning?

That which is born of God is Christ.

We are reborn, not born, and as reborn, we have the Spirit of Christ and the flesh in a way Christ did not, as He was not born of Adam's seed, but of God's seed.

It's blasphemy to say we are sinless. I think anyway. Like literally blasphemy.

Is this taught as such? I recently encountered this idea of people being sinless and spoke on it without consulting any Pastor first, but it overwhelmingly at least feels quite blasphemous, in a major way that's almost beyond words. It's definitely a garment rending experience to speak to these people, in my opinion.

I see the Scripture as expounding that though we have the Holy Spirit - which is sinless - we cannot allow the sin of the pride of Life to enter in, plus the reminder we still have forgiveness in Christ, even with the Holy Spirit grieving occasionally. (Though it's terrible... Just terrible to do)
 
Last edited:
That which is born of God is Christ.

We are reborn, not born, and as reborn, we have the Spirit of Christ and the flesh in a way Christ did not, as He was not born of Adam's seed, but of God's seed.
Born again, given a new- born again spirit not seen with a living promise as a hope beyond what the eyes see. A new body that will not lust after sin temporal things seen

Christ the teaching master is God.

That which is born of God are gods. As sons of God, we are to have no gods before him to include oneself
 
e. A new body that will not lust after sin temporal things seen

We don't have the new body yet, we are not glorified...

That's the not yet.

"And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies." Romans 8:23

This is the already. This is the birthing pains yes? The whole creation groaning, including we ourselves.

So in the now I hesitate, though we are sons of God, because we cannot forget our first estate - ever.

Anyone who says they are without sin deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.. 1 John 1:8
 
Last edited:
Free from the Power of Sin
1 John 3:9

9. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
This verse parallels verse 6a (compare 5:18). It is a broader statement in which the emphasis falls on two items that are placed in an inverted sequence: 1. he who is [has been] born of God 2. will [can] not go on sinning; and it makes the clause “because God’s seed remains in him” a link between the preceding and the following clause.


a. Born again

The phrase born of God is characteristic of John, for he uses it repeatedly (2:29; 3:9; 4:7; 5:1, 4, 18). It signifies that a person has been born spiritually in the past and continues in the present as God’s child. That is, he finds his origin and existence in God. Whereas the person who practices sin has Satan as his father, the born-again believer knows that God is his Father. The words of Jesus are relevant: “A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit” (Matt. 7:18).
“God’s seed remains in him.” The word seed has a figurative connotation: “God’s nature” or “God’s principle of life.” God guards the new life he planted in the heart of the believer and causes it to develop. The Christian, then, will not and cannot yield to sin because of that divine principle in his heart.


b. Inability to sin

The translators of the New International Version have tried to reflect the Greek verb tenses by adding extra words. They write, “No one who is born of God will continue to sin, … he cannot go on sinning” (italics added).19 This is an acceptable interpretation of John’s intention. In Greek, the verbs express continued action, not a single occurrence. Therefore, by using the present tenses of the Greek verbs, John is saying that the believer cannot practice habitual sin. “The thought being conveyed in 1 John 3:9 is not that one born of God will never commit a sinful act but that he will not persist in sin.”20
Sin does not originate with God, for “in him there is no darkness at all” (1 John 1:5). A person who is born of God and possesses God’s nature cannot live in habitual sin. Nevertheless, the possibility of falling into occasional sin is always present, as every Christian can testify.21


Greek Words, Phrases, and Constructions in 3:9

γεγεννημένος—the perfect passive participle from γεννάω (I beget) denotes action that took place in the past; its influence, however, continues to the present.
οὐ δύναται ἁμαρτάνειν—note that John writes not “able not to sin,” but “not able to sin.” Some grammarians take the present infinitive to be durative; others understand it as a state.22 That is, a Christian sins but he cannot be called a sinner. He belongs to Christ who has redeemed and sanctified him and who has destroyed the devil’s work.

1 John 5:18

18. We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him.
Except for a minor variation in wording, the first part of this sentence is virtually identical to that of 3:9, “No one who is born of God will continue to sin.” He repeats the thought by putting the words we know at the beginning. That is, he tells the readers that the person who has his origin in God does not keep on sinning without repentance (compare 3:6). “A child of God may sin; but his normal condition is one of resistance to sin.”43 This is a well-known principle.

In the next clause, John presents a message that appears to be vague. What does he mean by the words “The one who was born of God keeps him safe”? And who is kept safe? To begin with the last question, we conclude that the pronoun him refers to the believer whom God protects. If God keeps the believer safe, the phrase “the one who was born of God” must refer to Jesus Christ.44 This designation for Jesus, however, is unique; it does not appear anywhere else in the New Testament. Because both Jesus and the believer are called “born of God,” John differentiates by using the past tense “was born” for Jesus and the phrase born of God for the believer. Furthermore, John places Jesus “who was born of God” over against “the evil one.” Jesus keeps the believers safe and asks God to protect them from the evil one (John 17:12, 15).
“And the evil one cannot harm him.” Notice that John describes Satan as the evil one (2:13, 14; 3:12; 5:19). The evil one seeks to lay his hands on the believer but is unable to touch him because of God’s protecting power. The word touch in this sentence means to harm or injure a person.45 Satan desires to lead us into sin and to control us permanently. But we who are children of God belong not to Satan but to God.


Greek Words, Phrases, and Constructions in 5:18

ὁ γεννηθείς—this is the aorist passive participle from the verb γεννάω (I beget). The aorist is timeless.
αὐτόν—manuscript evidence for the reflexive pronoun ἑαυτόν (himself) is strong. However, internal evidence together with varied textual witnesses favors the personal pronoun αὐτόν (him).


43 Plummer, The Epistles of St. John, p. 125.
44 Most translators understand the subject of the clause to be Jesus. For example, “it is the Son of God who keeps him safe” (NEB, GNB). The JB has, “because the begotten Son of God protects him.” But the NAB gives the reading “God protects the one begotten by him.” And two translations have the reflexive pronoun himself, “but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself” (KJV, NKJV).
45 Refer to Bauer, p. 103.

Simon J. Kistemaker and William Hendriksen, Exposition of James and the Epistles of John, vol. 14, New Testament Commentary (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1953–2001), 365–366.

19 Other translations provide a literal version, for instance, “Whoever has been born of God does not practice sin, … and he cannot sin” (NKJV).
20 V. Kerry Inman, “Distinctive Johannine Vocabulary and the Interpretation of 1 John 3:9,” WJT 40 (1977): 142.
21 Consult P. P. A. Kotze, “The Meaning of 1 John 3:9 with Reference to 1 John 1:8 and 10,” Neotestamentica 13 (1979): 68–83.
22 For example, consult H. E. Dana and Julius R. Mantey, A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament (New York: Macmillan, 1967), p. 195. Also see N. Turner, A Grammar of New Testament Greek (Edinburgh: Clark, 1963), pp. 150–51; Robert Hanna, Grammatical Aid to the Greek New Testament (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1983), pp. 435–36.

Simon J. Kistemaker and William Hendriksen, Exposition of James and the Epistles of John, vol. 14, New Testament Commentary (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1953–2001), 302–304.
 
Free from the Power of Sin
1 John 3:9

9. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
This verse parallels verse 6a (compare 5:18). It is a broader statement in which the emphasis falls on two items that are placed in an inverted sequence: 1. he who is [has been] born of God 2. will [can] not go on sinning; and it makes the clause “because God’s seed remains in him” a link between the preceding and the following clause.


a. Born again

The phrase born of God is characteristic of John, for he uses it repeatedly (2:29; 3:9; 4:7; 5:1, 4, 18). It signifies that a person has been born spiritually in the past and continues in the present as God’s child. That is, he finds his origin and existence in God. Whereas the person who practices sin has Satan as his father, the born-again believer knows that God is his Father. The words of Jesus are relevant: “A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit” (Matt. 7:18).
“God’s seed remains in him.” The word seed has a figurative connotation: “God’s nature” or “God’s principle of life.” God guards the new life he planted in the heart of the believer and causes it to develop. The Christian, then, will not and cannot yield to sin because of that divine principle in his heart.


b. Inability to sin

The translators of the New International Version have tried to reflect the Greek verb tenses by adding extra words. They write, “No one who is born of God will continue to sin, … he cannot go on sinning” (italics added).19 This is an acceptable interpretation of John’s intention. In Greek, the verbs express continued action, not a single occurrence. Therefore, by using the present tenses of the Greek verbs, John is saying that the believer cannot practice habitual sin. “The thought being conveyed in 1 John 3:9 is not that one born of God will never commit a sinful act but that he will not persist in sin.”20
Sin does not originate with God, for “in him there is no darkness at all” (1 John 1:5). A person who is born of God and possesses God’s nature cannot live in habitual sin. Nevertheless, the possibility of falling into occasional sin is always present, as every Christian can testify.21


Greek Words, Phrases, and Constructions in 3:9

γεγεννημένος—the perfect passive participle from γεννάω (I beget) denotes action that took place in the past; its influence, however, continues to the present.
οὐ δύναται ἁμαρτάνειν—note that John writes not “able not to sin,” but “not able to sin.” Some grammarians take the present infinitive to be durative; others understand it as a state.22 That is, a Christian sins but he cannot be called a sinner. He belongs to Christ who has redeemed and sanctified him and who has destroyed the devil’s work.

1 John 5:18

18. We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him.
Except for a minor variation in wording, the first part of this sentence is virtually identical to that of 3:9, “No one who is born of God will continue to sin.” He repeats the thought by putting the words we know at the beginning. That is, he tells the readers that the person who has his origin in God does not keep on sinning without repentance (compare 3:6). “A child of God may sin; but his normal condition is one of resistance to sin.”43 This is a well-known principle.

In the next clause, John presents a message that appears to be vague. What does he mean by the words “The one who was born of God keeps him safe”? And who is kept safe? To begin with the last question, we conclude that the pronoun him refers to the believer whom God protects. If God keeps the believer safe, the phrase “the one who was born of God” must refer to Jesus Christ.44 This designation for Jesus, however, is unique; it does not appear anywhere else in the New Testament. Because both Jesus and the believer are called “born of God,” John differentiates by using the past tense “was born” for Jesus and the phrase born of God for the believer. Furthermore, John places Jesus “who was born of God” over against “the evil one.” Jesus keeps the believers safe and asks God to protect them from the evil one (John 17:12, 15).
“And the evil one cannot harm him.” Notice that John describes Satan as the evil one (2:13, 14; 3:12; 5:19). The evil one seeks to lay his hands on the believer but is unable to touch him because of God’s protecting power. The word touch in this sentence means to harm or injure a person.45 Satan desires to lead us into sin and to control us permanently. But we who are children of God belong not to Satan but to God.


Greek Words, Phrases, and Constructions in 5:18

ὁ γεννηθείς—this is the aorist passive participle from the verb γεννάω (I beget). The aorist is timeless.
αὐτόν—manuscript evidence for the reflexive pronoun ἑαυτόν (himself) is strong. However, internal evidence together with varied textual witnesses favors the personal pronoun αὐτόν (him).


43 Plummer, The Epistles of St. John, p. 125.
44 Most translators understand the subject of the clause to be Jesus. For example, “it is the Son of God who keeps him safe” (NEB, GNB). The JB has, “because the begotten Son of God protects him.” But the NAB gives the reading “God protects the one begotten by him.” And two translations have the reflexive pronoun himself, “but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself” (KJV, NKJV).
45 Refer to Bauer, p. 103.

Simon J. Kistemaker and William Hendriksen, Exposition of James and the Epistles of John, vol. 14, New Testament Commentary (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1953–2001), 365–366.

19 Other translations provide a literal version, for instance, “Whoever has been born of God does not practice sin, … and he cannot sin” (NKJV).
20 V. Kerry Inman, “Distinctive Johannine Vocabulary and the Interpretation of 1 John 3:9,” WJT 40 (1977): 142.
21 Consult P. P. A. Kotze, “The Meaning of 1 John 3:9 with Reference to 1 John 1:8 and 10,” Neotestamentica 13 (1979): 68–83.
22 For example, consult H. E. Dana and Julius R. Mantey, A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament (New York: Macmillan, 1967), p. 195. Also see N. Turner, A Grammar of New Testament Greek (Edinburgh: Clark, 1963), pp. 150–51; Robert Hanna, Grammatical Aid to the Greek New Testament (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1983), pp. 435–36.

Simon J. Kistemaker and William Hendriksen, Exposition of James and the Epistles of John, vol. 14, New Testament Commentary (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1953–2001), 302–304.

So then, perseverance of the saints in Christ is what is being described, as opposed to a sinless state?
 
So then, perseverance of the saints in Christ is what is being described, as opposed to a sinless state?

It would be like no double jeopardy. no retiral. One appointment to die once.

No putting him back on the cross.

Either he paid the full wage of sin (fulness of grace) salvation, or he has sacrificed nothing.
 
... Nevermind...
 
Last edited:
That which is born of God is Christ.

We are reborn, not born, and as reborn, we have the Spirit of Christ and the flesh in a way Christ did not, as He was not born of Adam's seed, but of God's seed.

It's blasphemy to say we are sinless. I think anyway. Like literally blasphemy.

Is this taught as such? I recently encountered this idea of people being sinless and spoke on it without consulting any Pastor first, but it overwhelmingly at least feels quite blasphemous, in a major way that's almost beyond words. It's definitely a garment rending experience to speak to these people, in my opinion.

I see the Scripture as expounding that though we have the Holy Spirit - which is sinless - we cannot allow the sin of the pride of Life to enter in, plus the reminder we still have forgiveness in Christ, even with the Holy Spirit grieving occasionally. (Though it's terrible... Just terrible to do)
Agreed. And you may see it more clearly than many a pastor!

There is a lot of Scripture to be brought to bear, though, concerning the difference between our being born of flesh (and of the Spirit), compared to Jesus Christ's. I have a real hard time, for example, with the notion that Jesus Christ, too, needed to be born again. (Talk about blasphemy!) The best I can do with that is to give them the benefit of the doubt that they don't even know what they are saying, and are trying to make the math of words fit, by false equivalence.

But in being "reborn" we are "born" of the Spirit, but yes, I agree it is not the same as Jesus' birth.

It is indeed contrary to Scripture (see 1 John 1) to say we are without sin. But, again, though, I try to understand what someone saying that is really getting at; usually, I think, they are referring to actual forgiveness, and imputation, or both —not to practical fact of life, as though from here on we only ever obey. But yeah, there are whackjobs, we have seen, (specially on CF!) And to give CF credit, the mods/admins usually get rid of those when they become aware of them.

The flesh will be with us till it dies, and must be put to death continually in this temporal life. Words do play with us, though.
 
Agreed. And you may see it more clearly than many a pastor!

There is a lot of Scripture to be brought to bear, though, concerning the difference between our being born of flesh (and of the Spirit), compared to Jesus Christ's. I have a real hard time, for example, with the notion that Jesus Christ, too, needed to be born again. (Talk about blasphemy!) The best I can do with that is to give them the benefit of the doubt that they don't even know what they are saying, and are trying to make the math of words fit, by false equivalence.

But in being "reborn" we are "born" of the Spirit, but yes, I agree it is not the same as Jesus' birth.

It is indeed contrary to Scripture (see 1 John 1) to say we are without sin. But, again, though, I try to understand what someone saying that is really getting at; usually, I think, they are referring to actual forgiveness, and imputation, or both —not to practical fact of life, as though from here on we only ever obey. But yeah, there are whackjobs, we have seen, (specially on CF!) And to give CF credit, the mods/admins usually get rid of those when they become aware of them.

The flesh will be with us till it dies, and must be put to death continually in this temporal life. Words do play with us, though.

We have to always give the benefit of the doubt then right?

I will try to be more cognizant.
 
So then, perseverance of the saints in Christ is what is being described, as opposed to a sinless state?
We will persevere by the power of God and His Spirit.

I have interacted with many who claim to be sinsless and use 1 John to justify sinless perfection.

These people do not understand what John is saying and they are liars according to 1 John 1:10.

No one is sinless but Jesus Christ.

1 John is talking about a lifestyle of sin.

@Carbon said it best in post #4
It is one thing for sin to live in us, it's another thing for us to live in sin.

One thing is for sure, the longer I live the christian life the more I understand paul in Romans 7:14ff.

This indwelling battle can be very intense at times, at least this is my own experience.

Here is an excellent article on Romans 7 by Robert Murray M'Cheyne

THE INWARD EXPERIENCE OF BELIEVERS
 
We have to always give the benefit of the doubt then right?

I will try to be more cognizant.
Well, no, not always! Lol, we get to know some posters for imposters! I will not brown-nose them 'in order to win them'. Changing their minds is God's business, and if he makes me be nice to them, he can do that! :ROFLMAO: :cautious:

But there are a LOT of people whose only contact with Christianity is so 'spiritualized' as to render any way of saying a thing acceptable, and any concept as good as another. These often don't even know what they think or what they are saying.
 
We will persevere by the power of God and His Spirit.

I have interacted with many who claim to be sinsless and use 1 John to justify sinless perfection.

These people do not understand what John is saying and they are liars according to 1 John 1:10.

No one is sinless but Jesus Christ.

1 John is talking about a lifestyle of sin.

@Carbon said it best in post #4


One thing is for sure, the longer I live the christian life the more I understand paul in Romans 7:14ff.

This indwelling battle can be very intense at times, at least this is my own experience.

Here is an excellent article on Romans 7 by Robert Murray M'Cheyne

THE INWARD EXPERIENCE OF BELIEVERS

I'll read this tomorrow morning. It looks quite good.

I didn't read the thread before posting. I'll start reading more before replying here.
 
Well, no, not always! Lol, we get to know some posters for imposters! I will not brown-nose them 'in order to win them'. Changing their minds is God's business, and if he makes me be nice to them, he can do that! :ROFLMAO: :cautious:

But there are a LOT of people whose only contact with Christianity is so 'spiritualized' as to render any way of saying a thing acceptable, and any concept as good as another. These often don't even know what they think or what they are saying.

Yea I get it...

By the way? Thanks for this... This has been a great day being here. I needed it. :)
 
Well, no, not always! Lol, we get to know some posters for imposters! I will not brown-nose them 'in order to win them'. Changing their minds is God's business, and if he makes me be nice to them, he can do that! :ROFLMAO: :cautious:

But there are a LOT of people whose only contact with Christianity is so 'spiritualized' as to render any way of saying a thing acceptable, and any concept as good as another. These often don't even know what they think or what they are saying.


Changing their minds is God's business, and if he makes me be nice to them, he can do that!

This is great.

Haha.
 
.
FAQ: Is 1John 3:9 talking about born-again Christians?

REPLY: No.

FAQ: Well if it's not talking about born-again Christians then who?

REPLY: God's paternal offspring.

FAQ: Born again Christians aren't God's paternal offspring?

REPLY: God has only the one paternal offspring. (John 1:14, John 1:18, John 3:16-18,
Heb 11:17, and 1John 4:9)


FAQ: Well then, if born-again Christians aren't God's paternal offspring, then what
are they?


REPLY: They are God's handiwork-- new creations --placed into His family circle by
means of adoption rather than heredity.
_
 
Back
Top