Who are they, and where have they come from?

[Marty]

I never said the temple to be rebuilt was the temple of God. I explained why that was just a name.

You were given a response...
Yes the Jews lost their temple....Jesus fulfilled what the temple did. Did God abandon them? I say no as many Jews have accepted that Jesus was God who came in the flesh and died on the cross for them. If God abandoned them then that would not happen.

Concerning the temple....the Jews are currently working on rebuilding their temple. Scripture in the bible tells us they will be successful though I believe there will be no "salvation" forgiveness and covering of sin in that temple.

Will this temple be Gods temple? I say no. Will it be called the temple of God? It looks like it. The bible tells us the anti-christ will declare himself to be God in that temple.

God abandoned Israel as a nation not the Jews individually

No scripture predicts a literal temple it’s a matter of interpretation

 

[CrowCross]

@Marty ....never mind you don't seem to want to answer.

 

[Carbon]

Who are they, and where have they come from?

In the book of Revelation we read the following account..

Rev 7:9 After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands------->13 Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes,” he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?”

14 “Sir,” I answered, “you know.”
So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Who are they, and where have they come from...was asked. The answer was given...they have come out of the great tribulation. Simple enough....but, what is the "great tribulation"?

Those you're asking about are the church triumphant.

Matt 24:21 helps us with an answer when Jesus says:
"For at that time there will be great tribulation, unseen from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again".

Question....Jesus tells us there will BE a future great tribulation...When and what was Jesus speaking of?
Question....who are the ones that have come out of this "there will be...great tribulation"?

We are in the tribulation, and it will get worse.

 

[Carbon]

Once again, when will you answer the question in the OP?

It seems he has been answering your posts.

 

[Marty]

@Marty ....never mind you don't seem to want to answer.

Then can you explain what you want in more detail as I’ve answered it twice.? I really don’t know what you mean

 

[CrowCross]

Those you're asking about are the church triumphant.

Does the church triumphant come out of the great tribulation....time of Jacobs trouble?

We are in the tribulation, and it will get worse.

yes, there are trials and tribulation...but we are not in the tribulations spoke about in the book of Revelations. If so can you show how?

 

[CrowCross]

I did see post 4

Thank you for that reply but I don't see how it answered the OP.
Your post 4 was a reply to post 3 I presented...I then showed you at the destruction of the temple it wasn't the worst "tribulation" the Jews went through.
Why do you think the temple destruction was?

 

[CrowCross]

It seems he has been answering your posts.

i would say replying to the questions rather than answering the questions.

 

[Marty]

Thank you for that reply but I don't see how it answered the OP.
Your post 4 was a reply to post 3 I presented...I then showed you at the destruction of the temple it wasn't the worst "tribulation" the Jews went through.
Why do you think the temple destruction was?

I answered it in post 2 also

 

[Marty]

Who are they, and where have they come from?

In the book of Revelation we read the following account..

Rev 7:9 After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands------->13 Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes,” he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?”

14 “Sir,” I answered, “you know.”
So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Who are they, and where have they come from...was asked. The answer was given...they have come out of the great tribulation. Simple enough....but, what is the "great tribulation"?

Matt 24:21 helps us with an answer when Jesus says:
"For at that time there will be great tribulation, unseen from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again".

Question....Jesus tells us there will BE a future great tribulation...When and what was Jesus speaking of?
Question....who are the ones that have come out of this "there will be...great tribulation"?

Okay let’s try this again

It is clear that the great multitude are the saints who came out of the great tribulation the persecution of the church

The wrath of God is only the unsaved thus the saints are protected from His wrath with the seal of God

If the saints are killed in the great tribulation this shows that the wrath of God ( a great tribulation that Jesus mentioned in Matthew chapter 24) is different from the great tribulation in revelation chapter 7

There are many great tribulations but only one “the great tribulation”

The “great tribulation”that Jesus mentioned in Matthew chapter 24 is the wrath of God on the Israel of that generation for rejecting and killing their God and messiah and the proof of that is the fact that it did happen within that generation

This is the ultimate proof that Jesus is God because His prediction happened and it happened exactly when He said that it would happen

It was the greatest tribulation because God now abandoned Israel as a nation He now turned to the gentiles and individual Jews who believed in Him

 

[CrowCross]

Okay let’s try this again

It is clear that the great multitude are the saints who came out of the great tribulation the persecution of the church

When was this great tribulation.....considering there hasn't been a great tribulation yet I would think it's future. Do you agree?

The wrath of God is only the unsaved thus the saints are protected from His wrath with the seal of God

Yes, the saints are raptured prior to the wrath spoken about in the book of Revelation. Rev 3:10 tells us that pretty clearly.

Now, for those who become christians after the rapture....God doesn't say it will be pretty.

If the saints are killed in the great tribulation this shows that the wrath of God ( a great tribulation that Jesus mentioned in Matthew chapter 24) is different from the great tribulation in revelation chapter 7

How so????? How was the destruction of the temple a great tribulation to the point that they never saw or will see again? When questions like that can be asked.....I tend to doubt what you're telling me.

There are many great tribulations but only one “the great tribulation”

The “great tribulation”that Jesus mentioned in Matthew chapter 24 is the wrath of God on the Israel of that generation for rejecting and killing their God and messiah and the proof of that is the fact that it did happen within that generation

How so????? How was the destruction of the temple a great tribulation to the point that they never saw or will see again?

This is the ultimate proof that Jesus is God because His prediction happened and it happened exactly when He said that it would happen

Exactly? Yes......but not with the additions you add to it. How was the destruction of the temple a great tribulation to the point that they never saw or will see again?

It was the greatest tribulation because God now abandoned Israel as a nation He now turned to the gentiles and individual Jews who believed in Him

Gods focus during Revelation will be upon the Jewish nation. I can give you 144,000 reasons why.

 

[Marty]

When was this great tribulation.....considering there hasn't been a great tribulation yet I would think it's future. Do you agree?

Yes, the saints are raptured prior to the wrath spoken about in the book of Revelation. Rev 3:10 tells us that pretty clearly.

Now, for those who become christians after the rapture....God doesn't say it will be pretty.


How so????? How was the destruction of the temple a great tribulation to the point that they never saw or will see again? When questions like that can be asked.....I tend to doubt what you're telling me.

How so????? How was the destruction of the temple a great tribulation to the point that they never saw or will see again?


Exactly? Yes......but not with the additions you add to it. How was the destruction of the temple a great tribulation to the point that they never saw or will see again?

Gods focus during Revelation will be upon the Jewish nation. I can give you 144,000 reasons why.

I have answered when the great tribulation started many times already it started the day Stephen was killed and is still happening today as the scriptures below show. You keep confusing it with the wrath of God

Acts 7

The Stoning of Stephen​

54When the members of the Sanhedrin heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. 55But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56“Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

57At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, 58dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul.

59While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he fell asleep.

Acts 8
1 And Saul approved of their killing him.

The Church Persecuted and Scattered​

On that day a great persecution broke out against the church in Jerusalem, and all except the apostles were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria. 2Godly men buried Stephen and mourned deeply for him. 3But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off both men and women and put them in prison.

Revelation 7
9After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

10And they cried out in a loud voice:

“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”
11All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12saying:

“Amen!
Praise and glory
and wisdom and thanks and honor
and power and strength
be to our God for ever and ever.
Amen!”
13Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

14I answered, “Sir, you know.”

And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

We disagree about the rapture

I have also answered the question about the temple already too.

So what exactually does the bible say about the 144,000?

 

[CrowCross]

I have answered when the great tribulation started many times already it started the day Stephen was killed and is still happening today as the scriptures below show. You keep confusing it with the wrath of God

Acts 7

The Stoning of Stephen​

54When the members of the Sanhedrin heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. 55But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56“Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”

57At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, 58dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul.

59While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he fell asleep.

Acts 8
1 And Saul approved of their killing him.

The Church Persecuted and Scattered​

On that day a great persecution broke out against the church in Jerusalem, and all except the apostles were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria. 2Godly men buried Stephen and mourned deeply for him. 3But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off both men and women and put them in prison.

Revelation 7
9After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

10And they cried out in a loud voice:

“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”
11All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12saying:

“Amen!
Praise and glory
and wisdom and thanks and honor
and power and strength
be to our God for ever and ever.
Amen!”
13Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

14I answered, “Sir, you know.”

And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

We disagree about the rapture

I have also answered the question about the temple already too.

So what exactually does the bible say about the 144,000?

Thank you for that reply.
but,
It fails this test......“For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be”
Could you please tell us when this great tribulation event occurred?

 

[CrowCross]

We disagree about the rapture

I will allow you to be wrong. Salvation isn't dependent on that piece of theological doctrine.

 

[Marty]

Thank you for that reply.
but,
It fails this test......“For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be”
Could you please tell us when this great tribulation event occurred?

How many times can I do it?

You're putting aside all of the scriptures that I provided proving that the great tribulation is on the church not Israel because of your misunderstanding of the greatest tribulation that ever occurred is, do you see how false interpretations happen?

Because you don't understand what Jesus meant doesn't cancel out direct scriptures showing that the great tribulation is on the church.

So here it is again

Revelation 7
9After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

10And they cried out in a loud voice:

“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”
11All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12saying:

“Amen!
Praise and glory
and wisdom and thanks and honor
and power and strength
be to our God for ever and ever.
Amen!”
13Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

14I answered, “Sir, you know.”

And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

[CrowCross]

You're putting aside all of the scriptures that I provided proving that the great tribulation is on the church not Israel because of your misunderstanding of the greatest tribulation that ever occurred is, do you see how false interpretations happen?

At the same time you're saying the 144,000 are not Jews alive during the great tribulation.

Once again the great tribulation is future. You seem to deny that there are events in the book of Revelation that have not occurred.

 

[Marty]

At the same time you're saying the 144,000 are not Jews alive during the great tribulation.

Once again the great tribulation is future. You seem to deny that there are events in the book of Revelation that have not occurred.

I never said that about the 144 000

For example?

Please answer yes or no does the bible show that the great tribulation is on the church in the verses that I provided?

 

[CrowCross]

I never said that about the 144 000

For example?

Please answer yes or no does the bible show that the great tribulation is on the church in the verses that I provided?

No. The church is gone...raptured as described in the bible.

Now, keep in mind there will be many left behind....the rest of the earths population...the Jews who will have 144,000 converts proclaiming the truth of the Gospel. Many will receive Christ from the witness of the 144,000 Jews.
For those that will become christians during the tribulation they will suffer many of the wrath presented in Revelation.
For some strange reason there are some christians here who seem to welcome the tribulations of Revelation by denying the biblical truth of the pre-rapture.

 

[Marty]

No. The church is gone...raptured as described in the bible.

Now, keep in mind there will be many left behind....the rest of the earths population...the Jews who will have 144,000 converts proclaiming the truth of the Gospel. Many will receive Christ from the witness of the 144,000 Jews.
For those that will become christians during the tribulation they will suffer many of the wrath presented in Revelation.
For some strange reason there are some christians here who seem to welcome the tribulations of Revelation by denying the biblical truth of the pre-rapture.

So we’re in the bible does it say that the 144 000 preach the gospel?

Let’s read what Jesus Himself said will happen when He returns with His angels

Matthew 16
27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.

Matthew 25
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.

 

[CrowCross]

So we’re in the bible does it say that the 144 000 preach the gospel?

from Got Questions...
These 144,000 Jews are “sealed,” which means they have the special protection of God. They are kept safe from the divine judgments and from the wrath of the Antichrist. They can freely perform their mission during the tribulation. It had been previously prophesied that Israel would repent and turn back to God (Zechariah 12:10; Romans 11:25–27), and the 144,000 Jews seem to be a sort of “first fruits” (Revelation 14:4) of that redeemed Israel. Their mission seems to be to evangelize the post-rapture world and proclaim the gospel during the tribulation period. As a result of their ministry, millions—“a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language” (Revelation 7:9)—will come to faith in Christ.

Let’s read what Jesus Himself said will happen when He returns with His angels

Matthew 16
27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.

Matthew 25
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.

Are you referring to the coming of Christ at the rapture or the coming of Christ at the end of the tribulation?