Who are God's chosen People?

[Josheb]

Who are God's chosen People?

According to the New Testament,

1 Peter 2:4-10
As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.” So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, “The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

The pronouns in this passage refer to

1 Peter 1:1-2
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.


Peter has, therefore identified those who are God's chosen people as those chosen according to the foreknowledge of God, those who obey Jesus Christ by means of the sanctifying work of the Spirit; those sprinkled with Christ's blood. Peter's epistle is filled with Old Testament references, implying those references are applicable to those chosen by God to obey Jesus. If that is not the case the Pater is taking liberties with Tanakh, possibly to the point of abusing those texts and we need no take anything Peter has written to be divinely inspired. If, however, Peter was inspired by the Holy Spirit to reveal the meaning of the OT texts pertaining to the identity of God's "chosen people" then this passage explains all the Old Testament mentions of God's chosen people.

The newer revelation explains the older revelation(s).

Peter has said "a" chosen race, not "the" chosen race. This could, logically speaking, mean God has more than one chosen race or people but since there is no place in scripture explicitly stating God has two or more chosen peoples, that interpretation would 1) be entirely inferential and 2) not founded on something scripture explicitly teaches.

There is, of course, a theology within Christianity that teaches the exact opposite. I won't name it at this time because I don't want to disrupt this commentary. That theology holds God has two completely different peoples with two completely different purposes. That theology stands in open opposition to all the other theologies known throughout historical and orthodox Christianity since its inception. That theology also asserts a discontinuity of scripture not shared by the rest of Christendom.​

Lastly, there are over 100 verses in the Bible that contain the word "chosen" but only eight of them specifically mention God's chosen people, or people chosen by God. Anyone with an eBible that has a search function should be able to track down those eight verses, examine them, and stick to what they state for the sake of this thread. Most of those verses are in the Old Testament. I mention this because it is clear and undeniable fact God first broached the matter of a "chosen people" in Tanakh. However, because most of us a Christians, not Jews, the newer revelation defines and explains the older revelation and defines who are God's chosen people.

 

[makesends]

Not to mention the contradictions I found in scripture against the teaching of certain ones I grew up hearing from, it never has made sense to me that God would consider those he chose from the very beginning as his own for eternity, to be any more nor less precious than the elect from among the chosen people he used for an example. I doubt very much that Noah, Abraham, Jacob, Moses, David nor Peter would mind us being equal to them in God's eyes, all of the same "spiritual DNA".

 

[fastfredy0]

I doubt very much that Noah, Abraham, Jacob, Moses, David nor Peter would mind us being equal to them in God's eyes

... so you think all the chosen will be equal in God's eyes? I don't think so. You got certain people sitting on the Lord's left and right and you have different rewards so I'd say there's a hierarchy.
Aside: I'd be content to even be in the back row.

 

[fastfredy0]

Who are God's chosen People?​

All those written in the "Book of Life". (currently not available on Amazon)

 

[makesends]

... so you think all the chosen will be equal in God's eyes? I don't think so. You got certain people sitting on the Lord's left and right and you have different rewards so I'd say there's a hierarchy.
Aside: I'd be content to even be in the back row.

I mean, racially. However, like you, no matter what my position there, I will be completely satisfied and he will delight in everything I am there. Them, too. I don't think the hierarchy will much resemble what we take it for, here. After all, within the Trinity there is hierarchy, yet they are completely one and the same God. We will be one and the same Body.

The dirt in which the Tree of Life was planted was in a closer relationship to it than even Adam and Eve were (physically, anyway).

 

[CrowCross]

... so you think all the chosen will be equal in God's eyes? I don't think so. You got certain people sitting on the Lord's left and right and you have different rewards so I'd say there's a hierarchy.
Aside: I'd be content to even be in the back row.

Some people will be farmers...planting manna. Some musicians, some electricians, some street of gold cleaners, some will be building space craft.....

 

[David Lamb]

Some people will be farmers...planting manna. Some musicians, some electricians, some street of gold cleaners, some will be building space craft.....

Electricians, cleaners and spacecraft in heaven? Really?

 

[Mr GLee]

Chosen people every nation. God is not a racist

A Jew is not one outwardly according to dying flesh. A Jew in one inwardly of the Spirit born again

 

[Mr GLee]

... so you think all the chosen will be equal in God's eyes? I don't think so. You got certain people sitting on the Lord's left and right and you have different rewards so I'd say there's a hierarchy.
Aside: I'd be content to even be in the back row.

It back row for everyone. Same gift eternal life. One bride the church.

 

[makesends]

Electricians, cleaners and spacecraft in heaven? Really?

I don't think he was being specific. Just getting a point across.

 

[CrowCross]

Electricians, cleaners and spacecraft in heaven? Really?

You forgot farmers...sure, why not?

 

[CrowCross]

I don't think he was being specific. Just getting a point across.

What do you think we'll be doing in heaven? I certainly hope we won't be sitting on a cloud playing harps.

 

[Josheb]

Not to mention the contradictions I found in scripture against the teaching of certain ones I grew up hearing from, it never has made sense to me that God would consider those he chose from the very beginning as his own for eternity, to be any more nor less precious than the elect from among the chosen people he used for an example. I doubt very much that Noah, Abraham, Jacob, Moses, David nor Peter would mind us being equal to them in God's eyes, all of the same "spiritual DNA".

I have often explained to our more "Jewish" or "Judaic" siblings 1) the scripture's history of the Hebrews, Israel, and Jews, 2) how scripture identifies and defines these monikers, 3) the problems of (over-)Judaizing the New Testament and Christianity, and 4) the problems arising from a strictly secular definition(s). I'll try to track some of those posts down and either paste them into this thread or link this thread to those posts.

 

[Josheb]

Briefly, the word "Hebrew" means "from Eber." Shem was the great-grandfather of Eber, who settled in an area that later became Babylon. Eber was in Ur, Ur was in Chaldea, and Chaldea was in Babylon. Abraham was Babylonian! It was Hebrews, NOT Jews that left Egypt and scripture refers to them as "the sons of Israel." The word "Israel" means "God prevails," which was first used in reference to Jacob's wrestling with God and God giving Jacob a new name. So the sons of Jacob and the sons of Israel should 1) be understood as synonymous, 2) be understood as a reference to those in whom God prevails, and 3) understood as those who are sons of promise, not bloodline. Furthermore, it is absolutely inconsistent with scripture to tie these sons of Israel to the Law because the Law would not be given to the descendants of/from Eber for more than four centuries after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were monergistically chosen and called into a (Christological) covenant relationship with God. There were no jews existing during any of that period of time, so it is, therefore, just as unscriptural and irrational to identify God's people solely and exclusive as the Jews. The word "Jew" comes from an abbreviation of "Judah, the largest of te twelve tribes, the tribe whose territory shared a boarder with the most Gentil or pagan countries/cultures. Those outsiders began calling the people of Judah "Jews," and that term eventually became a generalized reference to all the Hebrews, all the sons of Israel. The word "Jew" does not occur in scripture until 2 Kings when the sons of Israel had been taken away in exile to Nebuchadnezzars' Babylon and the time of Ezra. Look it up! In other words, God's word never makes reference to any "Jew" until well after Solomon, David, Solomon...... all the way up to Zedekiah! Look it up. Similarly, Israel is first used in reference to Jacob and then used to describe his descendants as "the sons of Israel," but God's word does not identify Israel as a "nation" Until the era of the Judges and there is some question as to whether that mention of Israel as a "nation" can or should be understood as a reference to a geo-political nation-state because there was no monarchy and the lands of Israel had not all yet been secured. The one single mention of "nation" in reference to Israel occurs in Exodus 19,

Exodus 19:5-6
Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine; and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel."

And that text is used in the New Testament to describe Christians, or the body of Christ in which there are neither Jew nor Gentile. This is the text to which Peter is referring in his first epistle when under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit he ties God's promise to make His people into a nation of priest to the saints. Exodus 19 calls them the people who keep his covenant, and Peter asserts that exact same metric. Exodus 19 speaks of a "possession" and Peter uses and applies the exact same metric. Exodus speaks of a kingdom, a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation and Peter uses and applies those exact same metrics to the saints in Christ. In other words, these "sons of Israel" of Exodus 19 are the exact same people as Peter's chosen people, those chosen according to the foreknowledge of God, those who obey Jesus Christ by means of the sanctifying work of the Spirit; those sprinkled with Christ's blood. The chosen people of Exodus (or Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy) are not Jews.

They are the people in whom God perseveres, those who hear God's voice and keep His covenant, those who were promised to Abraham, through his promised seed, Jesus, from many nations, not one.

See also HERE, and HERE.

 

[makesends]

The word "Israel" means "God prevails," which was first used in reference to Jacob's wrestling with God and God giving Jacob a new name. So the sons of Jacob and the sons of Israel should 1) be understood as synonymous, 2) be understood as a reference to those in whom God prevails

I don't follow the reasoning from the fact that Jacob prevailing in the wrestling and being given that name results in your point #2. I agree that the Children of Israel are those in whom God prevails, but I don't follow how that must be related to Jacob being given that name. Looks like a logical step or two wasn't mentioned.

 

[makesends]

What do you think we'll be doing in heaven? I certainly hope we won't be sitting on a cloud playing harps.

I have reason to think we will be so busy we would be worn out in no time flat, if God himself was not our very sustenance. HE is our rest. There are references to such things as Gatekeeper and singing, so I'm pretty sure there are disparate tasks or positions of service, but I'm also confident we will be continually 'journeying' into knowledge of the immensity of God, and otherwise enjoying him. I tend to speculate that all those things --him being our sustenance, our service and getting to know him and delighting in him, are all one and the same activity. Joy.

The notions we here consider music, art, or even physical/mental activities such as work, playing, games and reasoning, inventing, whatever brings satisfaction and joy here, I think are all small pictures of the real thing(s) we will be doing there.

 

[Josheb]

I don't follow the reasoning from the fact that Jacob prevailing in the wrestling and being given that name results in your point #2.

Who are the elect? Are they not those in whose lives God has prevailed (monergistically saved by grace)? Absent God prevailing in the sinner's life, what happens?

I agree that the Children of Israel are those in whom God prevails, but I don't follow how that must be related to Jacob being given that name. Looks like a logical step or two wasn't mentioned.

God was foreshadowing what would later be explained in the NT.

Hebrews 11:8-16, 39-40
By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going. By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise; for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God............... All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own. And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return. But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore, God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them...................... And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.


Jacob finds perfection in the Church and the city for which he was yearning was the new city of peace that is found only in Christ. That is the city not built by human hands. Throughout the Bible individuals are given names with significant meaning. Abram has his name changed to Abraham, which means "father of a multitude, or many nations." Isaac is called the "monogenes" son of Abraham; he, and not Ishmael, is the son of promise. Jesus is the monogenes sarx egenetos (the only son of God made flesh). Jacob has his name changed from "heel grabber," or "grifter," to "God prevails. The name Moses means "taken out of the water." We, therefore, find that the literal personages carry with them allegorical meaning. People often argue over literal versus allegorical but when they do so they often do it creating a false dichotomy because the literal and allegorical and often not mutually exclusive of one another. God used real history to communicate Christological truth from beginning to end. Jacob's story is one of several in which God breaks the man who is stridently getting nowhere. He cons his brother out of the firstborn's inheritance only to become estranged from his brother, be grifted by others, and give away much of his wealth back to his brother, even though God had blessed Esau abundantly. Jacob was the one loved, the one shown mercy, and God's mercy was not dependent on how Jacob willed or walked. It depended entirely on God's will and purpose. God prevailed. Had God not first loved Jacob, he'd never be made complete in Christ. God dislocated the man's hip, but also broke his spirit. The angel is in the details because the Genesis 32 account has Jacob prevailed, but the new name he is given is "God prevails."

Genesis 32:24-31
Then Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him until daybreak. When he saw that he had not prevailed against him, he touched the socket of his thigh; so the socket of Jacob's thigh was dislocated while he wrestled with him. Then he said, "Let me go, for the dawn is breaking." But he said, "I will not let you go unless you bless me." So he said to him, "What is your name?" And he said, "Jacob." He said, "Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel; for you have striven with God and with men and have prevailed." Then Jacob asked him and said, "Please tell me your name." But he said, "Why is it that you ask my name?" And he blessed him there. So Jacob named the place Peniel, for he said, "I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been preserved." Now the sun rose upon him just as he crossed over Penuel, and he was limping on his thigh.

It's a curious passage because Jacob hadn't prevailed much in his life. In this episode, however, he realizes he has seen God and God has preserved him.

Luke 1:30-33
The angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end."
Acts 2:29-31
"Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Being therefore a prophet and, knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption."


It is all Christological from beginning to end.

It's probable Jacob had heard the gospel from his father who, in turn, had heard it from his father (Gal. 3).

 

[makesends]

Who are the elect? Are they not those in whose lives God has prevailed (monergistically saved by grace)? Absent God prevailing in the sinner's life, what happens?

I agree completely. My question is not whether they are the ones in whose lives God prevails, but, how does Jacob being given that name (as in, "Jacob prevailing") somehow translate to any meaning as to God prevailing in these lives. I had assumed you had a logical progression, like maybe a verse saying something like, "As Jacob prevailed, so will I prevail upon them."

Who are the elect? Are they not those in whose lives God has prevailed (monergistically saved by grace)? Absent God prevailing in the sinner's life, what happens?

God was foreshadowing what would later be explained in the NT.

Hebrews 11:8-16, 39-40
By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going. By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise; for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God............... All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own. And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return. But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore, God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them...................... And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.


Jacob finds perfection in the Church and the city for which he was yearning was the new city of peace that is found only in Christ. That is the city not built by human hands. Throughout the Bible individuals are given names with significant meaning. Abram has his name changed to Abraham, which means "father of a multitude, or many nations." Isaac is called the "monogenes" son of Abraham; he, and not Ishmael, is the son of promise. Jesus is the monogenes sarx egenetos (the only son of God made flesh). Jacob has his name changed from "heel grabber," or "grifter," to "God prevails. The name Moses means "taken out of the water." We, therefore, find that the literal personages carry with them allegorical meaning. People often argue over literal versus allegorical but when they do so they often do it creating a false dichotomy because the literal and allegorical and often not mutually exclusive of one another. God used real history to communicate Christological truth from beginning to end. Jacob's story is one of several in which God breaks the man who is stridently getting nowhere. He cons his brother out of the firstborn's inheritance only to become estranged from his brother, be grifted by others, and give away much of his wealth back to his brother, even though God had blessed Esau abundantly. Jacob was the one loved, the one shown mercy, and God's mercy was not dependent on how Jacob willed or walked. It depended entirely on God's will and purpose. God prevailed. Had God not first loved Jacob, he'd never be made complete in Christ. God dislocated the man's hip, but also broke his spirit. The angel is in the details because the Genesis 32 account has Jacob prevailed, but the new name he is given is "God prevails."

Genesis 32:24-31
Then Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him until daybreak. When he saw that he had not prevailed against him, he touched the socket of his thigh; so the socket of Jacob's thigh was dislocated while he wrestled with him. Then he said, "Let me go, for the dawn is breaking." But he said, "I will not let you go unless you bless me." So he said to him, "What is your name?" And he said, "Jacob." He said, "Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel; for you have striven with God and with men and have prevailed." Then Jacob asked him and said, "Please tell me your name." But he said, "Why is it that you ask my name?" And he blessed him there. So Jacob named the place Peniel, for he said, "I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been preserved." Now the sun rose upon him just as he crossed over Penuel, and he was limping on his thigh.

It's a curious passage because Jacob hadn't prevailed much in his life. In this episode, however, he realizes he has seen God and God has preserved him.

Luke 1:30-33
The angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end."
Acts 2:29-31
"Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Being therefore a prophet and, knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption."


It is all Christological from beginning to end.

It's probable Jacob had heard the gospel from his father who, in turn, had heard it from his father (Gal. 3).

I see. I thought the name 'Israel' was a reference to Jacob prevailing upon God. Not meaning, "God prevails".

 

[CrowCross]

I have reason to think we will be so busy we would be worn out in no time flat, if God himself was not our very sustenance. HE is our rest. There are references to such things as Gatekeeper and singing, so I'm pretty sure there are disparate tasks or positions of service, but I'm also confident we will be continually 'journeying' into knowledge of the immensity of God, and otherwise enjoying him. I tend to speculate that all those things --him being our sustenance, our service and getting to know him and delighting in him, are all one and the same activity. Joy.

The notions we here consider music, art, or even physical/mental activities such as work, playing, games and reasoning, inventing, whatever brings satisfaction and joy here, I think are all small pictures of the real thing(s) we will be doing there.

I agree. I think a good subject for another thread would be...what do you think heaven will be like.

Those who have had near death experiences say there is colors there we have never seen before.
I think the angels are physical...with other characteristics.
Will there be sin in heaven? At one time there was. Will it still be possible to sin? Probably, but I don't think Christ followers from earth will sin.
Will there be technology? I think there is.

 

[brightfame52]

Who are God's chosen People?​

Apart from a temporary national election, those who were chosen in Christ before the foundation of world are Gods true chosen people Eph 1:4 and these are comprised of people out of all nations of the world