Which Doctrines are Monergistic and which are not?

[makesends]

Re: What desires do you have that were chosen by yourself? What was the basis for your selection?

You repudiate your sin and pursue righteousness because you've been regenerated and the Spirit favors you, thus this is not an example of a desire your chose independent of God.
Again I state, you follow your desires, but you do not chose them.

What in the world? Where did I state I choose my desires independent of God?

I am pointing out that one does not pick their desires and therefore one is not free to chose where I define "free" as not influenced by external stimulus. You follow your desires, but you do not chose them.

I often choose what I will desire. I try to feed the good dog. I desire to choose which dog to feed.

I agree that one does not choose ALL their desires. I'd venture to say that one hardly chooses any of them. In fact, even the ones I do choose, often go sour in spite of my temporary intentions and efforts.

Too many posts....losing my train of thought ... giggle

Do I hear you choosing to not let frustration rule you?

 

[makesends]

makesends said:
However, there are two things on which we must insist-- one, that our work does not qualify nor increase God's work, nor his decree, in any way-- which is related to the second,

I 100% agree. [acknowledging common ground]

makesends said:
that even what we do in such participation or cooperation is also the work of God, done by him for his purposes.

Not sure that I agree. Certainly God is working IN US [Philippians 2:13], but as worded it feels too hardcore deterministic [risking falling into the trap of "God's automaton" which violates the "love" of God's character and the "children" of the relationship]. We are more than an obedient pot that cannot help but passively do the purpose we were set to do.

I think the so-called 'trap' you refer to is of a humanly derived notion of God's love. The fact people may see that in determinism doesn't mean we need give way to it. Determinism doesn't imply passivity on the part of the creature. In fact, we are actively pursuing precisely what God determined, whether we mean to or not.

In Genesis, why did Joseph's brothers hate him, attack him, throw him in a well and sell him into slavery?
Did they have no choice/responsibility but were merely ordained to do those actions and did them under compulsion?

What does doing something one is compelled to do imply they have no choice? If someone holds a gun to my head and tells me to do something, I still have to choose to do it. --Or are you meaning something different by "compulsion"?

Regardless, there is no implication that they did something they did not choose to do. Yet, they were indeed caused to choose it, by the very things you mentioned.

• Genesis 50:20 [NKJV] "But as for you, you meant evil against me; [but] God meant it for good, in order to bring it about as [it is] this day, to save many people alive."

Genesis 50:20 indicates that events were established because THEY CHOSE and GOD ORDAINED it (both are true).

Of course both are true. Nothing I have said disagrees with that. I disagree with the use of the word, "established", there, though. They did come to pass by God ordaining and their choosing, yes, but their choosing is also established by God, they being mere creatures. We are indeed willed creatures, but we do not cause ourselves to be.

 

[Bruiser]

Bruiser said:
Christ's Will was Synergistic, right?

I think it's worth mentioning that the categorization is not doctrine-driving. It is doctrine that should be driving the categorization. The tail should not be wagging the dog.

Jesus lived as we should, his temptations were as real as ours are, but he never was addicted to sin. His passions were controlled, his mind disciplined, his heart pure. The will was thus free, in that sense, but just as human as ours; the vicissitudes of life pushed him around, too. He pursued his mission wholeheartedly--as a human. He depended on the Father and the Spirit just as we should.

Thanks

 

[Oarknot]

Obviously sin is synergistic. Sorry, couldn't help myself on that one.

And love, which comes from God, clearly monergistic.

I might suggest a reverse or resisting strain of mongergism, anti-monergism for sin, that being "of the devil," 1 John 3:8, Mark 4:15.

Nevertheless, since God upholds "all things," Heb. 1:3, everything would clearly be Monergistic, with a capital M.

The more interesting question might be, what exactly is He trying to get out of it?

I've broken this down in my mind so many times over the decades and use it to remind myself of present reality: God can do anything. He's God after all. IF God couldn't do God Things, He wouldn't be. So creation is a God thing, able to do all things.

Creation then is an all thing matter and there may be nearly endlessly amounts of interations.

IF God isn't in Absolute Control over His Own creation, then who is? No one? Is No One our God? I don't think so. But then again God appears to very good at hiding Himself. Deut. 32:20, 1 Kings 8:12

As an aficionado of Divine Supreme God, He really just scares the heck out of me. I believe the term is "fear of the Lord." It's legit. When He jumps out of the dark and says BOO!!! I guarantee anyone would jump. Maybe even die of a heart attack.

Whew. Here's to close calls.

 

[fastfredy0]

What in the world? Where did I state I choose my desires independent of God?

As I said, I was losing track of the theme of the discussion so 'my bad'.

I agree that one does not choose ALL their desires. I'd venture to say that one hardly chooses any of them.

agreed

Do I hear you choosing to not let frustration rule you?

No, my wife "rules" me.