Double Propitiation

[Bruiser]

I think it's time for a new Term; IE Double Propitiation. Jesus is the Propitiation of the World, especially for Believers. Here's the Dualty; Jesus is the Propitiation of the World, but especially the Propitiation of Believers. One's Limited while the other is not. Predestination is only effective when it's combined with Expiation...



Propitiation is available to All, but applied to some. Two Categories of Propitiation. ineffectual or Effectual...

Propitiation and Expiation ~ by ReverendRV * August 19

Numbers 35:33-34 NASB; 'So you shall not pollute the land in which you are; for blood pollutes the land and no expiation can be made for the land for the blood that is shed on it, except by the blood of him who shed it. 'You shall not defile the land in which you live, in the midst of which I dwell; for I the LORD am dwelling in the midst of the sons of Israel.

There are two words used in the Bible which define Atonement for Sins; Propitiation and Expiation. I would like to discuss the meaning of both of these words, since both of the words are very rarely talked about. Propitiation means to make an Atonement for something you did wrong; to Pay for the Wrong that was done. In the Old Testament days, this is why they made Bloody Sacrifices; all Sin deserves Death. The animals that were used in these Sacrifices Covered Sins that we needed to be Forgiven for, and they died in place of Israelites as penalty for their Sins. God Commanded Israel not to defile their Land because he wanted to dwell with them; and to have fellowship with them. God cannot have anything to do with Sin though. Sin separated them from God. However, God loved them so much that he is Faithful to provide a Way to Pay for their Sin; IE through Propitiation…

Expiation is like Propitiation. Since Propitiation Pays the Wages of Sin, Expiation Removes Sin from your Record. The only place we see Expiation in the Old Testament is on the Day of Atonement, when two Goats were used for one Sacrifice. One goat was Sacrificed on an Altar for its blood, the other Goat Carried the Sins of Israel away; that’s Expiation. Propitiation and Expiation are often interchangeable but there is a difference; or there was. If only one goat was Sacrificed, Israel’s Sins couldn’t be ‘removed’; only Paid for. ~ Have you ever told a Lie? Yes. Has that Sin been removed? Without the Jewish Temple, you cannot even have a Day of Atonement to slaughter a goat, right? The Wages of Sin is Death, as seen in the Animal Sacrifice; would you be Guilty? Would you go to Hell? Does it bother you? ~ The Good News is that you don’t need a Temple, there’s another Way…

Propitiation and Expiation are no longer divided between two goats; they are now One in the Lord Jesus Christ! ~ For God so loved the world he gave his only Unique Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting Life. Jesus kept God’s Ten Commandments his entire Life, so he qualified to be the Lamb who ‘takes away’ the Sin of the world. He did so by shedding his Blood and dying on God’s Alter, a Roman Cross; Propitiation was finished. He was buried but arose from his grave as the Scapegoat for Confessed Sins; if Jesus is not Risen, we are to be Most pitied because there is no Expiation for us. Jesus ascended to the right hand of God his Father, and will return to Judge the Living and the Dead. We’re Saved by Grace through Faith, without Working to Remove our Sin. Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord and God, Repent of your Sinful ways; and God will Dwell with you, and in you. Find a local Church which loves this Gospel as much as you do. ~ The Bible says that God is our Savior, right? The duality of the two goats is a Sign Post directing us to the duality of God and Man in Jesus Christ. A Man can be slaughtered, but can he live again? If that Man is also God, he can; and he can Raise you from the Dead too, no Matter how long you have to wait…

Deuteronomy 4:29 NASB; "But from there you will seek the LORD your God, and you will find [Him] if you search for Him with all your heart and all your
soul

 

[Bruiser]

Can someone change the Thread title to Double Propitiation please!

I wish there weren't a time limit to edit here...

 

[Carbon]

I think it's time for a new Term; IE Double Propitiation. Jesus is the Propitiation of the World, especially for Believers. Here's the Dualty; Jesus is the Propitiation of the World, but especially the Propitiation of Believers. One's Limited while the other is not. Predestination is only effective when it's combined with Expiation...



Propitiation is only available to All, or applied to some. Two Categories of Propitiation. ineffective or Effective...

Propitiation and Expiation ~ by ReverendRV * August 19

Numbers 35:33-34 NASB; 'So you shall not pollute the land in which you are; for blood pollutes the land and no expiation can be made for the land for the blood that is shed on it, except by the blood of him who shed it. 'You shall not defile the land in which you live, in the midst of which I dwell; for I the LORD am dwelling in the midst of the sons of Israel.

There are two words used in the Bible which define Atonement for Sins; Propitiation and Expiation. I would like to discuss the meaning of both of these words, since both of the words are very rarely talked about. Propitiation means to make an Atonement for something you did wrong; to Pay for the Wrong that was done. In the Old Testament days, this is why they made Bloody Sacrifices; all Sin deserves Death. The animals that were used in these Sacrifices Covered Sins that we needed to be Forgiven for, and they died in place of Israelites as penalty for their Sins. God Commanded Israel not to defile their Land because he wanted to dwell with them; and to have fellowship with them. God cannot have anything to do with Sin though. Sin separated them from God. However, God loved them so much that he is Faithful to provide a Way to Pay for their Sin; IE through Propitiation…

Expiation is like Propitiation. Since Propitiation Pays the Wages of Sin, Expiation Removes Sin from your Record. The only place we see Expiation in the Old Testament is on the Day of Atonement, when two Goats were used for one Sacrifice. One goat was Sacrificed on an Altar for its blood, the other Goat Carried the Sins of Israel away; that’s Expiation. Propitiation and Expiation are often interchangeable but there is a difference; or there was. If only one goat was Sacrificed, Israel’s Sins couldn’t be ‘removed’; only Paid for. ~ Have you ever told a Lie? Yes. Has that Sin been removed? Without the Jewish Temple, you cannot even have a Day of Atonement to slaughter a goat, right? The Wages of Sin is Death, as seen in the Animal Sacrifice; would you be Guilty? Would you go to Hell? Does it bother you? ~ The Good News is that you don’t need a Temple, there’s another Way…

Propitiation and Expiation are no longer divided between two goats; they are now One in the Lord Jesus Christ! ~ For God so loved the world he gave his only Unique Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting Life. Jesus kept God’s Ten Commandments his entire Life, so he qualified to be the Lamb who ‘takes away’ the Sin of the world. He did so by shedding his Blood and dying on God’s Alter, a Roman Cross; Propitiation was finished. He was buried but arose from his grave as the Scapegoat for Confessed Sins; if Jesus is not Risen, we are to be Most pitied because there is no Expiation for us. Jesus ascended to the right hand of God his Father, and will return to Judge the Living and the Dead. We’re Saved by Grace through Faith, without Working to Remove our Sin. Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord and God, Repent of your Sinful ways; and God will Dwell with you, and in you. Find a local Church which loves this Gospel as much as you do. ~ The Bible says that God is our Savior, right? The duality of the two goats is a Sign Post directing us to the duality of God and Man in Jesus Christ. A Man can be slaughtered, but can he live again? If that Man is also God, he can; and he can Raise you from the Dead too, no Matter how long you have to wait…

Deuteronomy 4:29 NASB; "But from there you will seek the LORD your God, and you will find [Him] if you search for Him with all your heart and all your
soul

Great topic!

I think, though, we have a slightly different understanding of propitiation. Without going into the propitiation and expiation meaning of how they relate.

I think it's time for a new Term; IE Double Propitiation. Jesus is the Propitiation of the World, especially for Believers. Here's the Dualty; Jesus is the Propitiation of the World, but especially the Propitiation of Believers. One's Limited while the other is not. Predestination is only effective when it's combined with Expiation...

Noah Webster 1828:
PROPI'TIATE, verb transitive [Latin propitio; pio. Eng. pity.]
To conciliate; to appease one offended and render him favorable; to make propitious.


1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
I'm glad you brought this topic up, because it helps in my explanation of 2 Corinthians 2:20. I will just mention it briefly.
Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 2 Corinthians 5:20.
https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/2-corinthians-5-17-21.3617/

There are two words used in the Bible which define Atonement for Sins; Propitiation and Expiation.

My understand it propitiation appeases God's anger, and Christ is the propitiation of the whole world, both for the elect and the rest of the world. By his propitiatory sacrifice, the world has been reconciled.
Expiate, on the other hand, is the removal of sin.

I would like to discuss the meaning of both of these words, since both of the words are very rarely talked about. Propitiation means to make an Atonement for something you did wrong; to Pay for the Wrong that was done.

I understand "atone" to mean to be paid for what you have done wrong (atoned for).

In the Old Testament days, this is why they made Bloody Sacrifices; all Sin deserves Death. The animals that were used in these Sacrifices Covered Sins that we needed to be Forgiven for, and they died in place of Israelites as penalty for their Sins. God Commanded Israel not to defile their Land because he wanted to dwell with them; and to have fellowship with them. God cannot have anything to do with Sin though. Sin separated them from God. However, God loved them so much that he is Faithful to provide a Way to Pay for their Sin; IE through Propitiation…

But I may be off? So, I think I will observe (if I can) for a bit.

 

[Bruiser]

Great topic!

I think, though, we have a slightly different understanding of propitiation. Without going into the propitiation and expiation meaning of how they relate.



Noah Webster 1828:
PROPI'TIATE, verb transitive [Latin propitio; pio. Eng. pity.]
To conciliate; to appease one offended and render him favorable; to make propitious.


1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
I'm glad you brought this topic up, because it helps in my explanation of 2 Corinthians 2:20. I will just mention it briefly.
Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 2 Corinthians 5:20.
https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/2-corinthians-5-17-21.3617/

My understand it propitiation appeases God's anger, and Christ is the propitiation of the whole world, both for the elect and the rest of the world. By his propitiatory sacrifice, the world has been reconciled.
Expiate, on the other hand, is the removal of sin.

I understand "atone" to mean to be paid for what you have done wrong (atoned for).

But I may be off? So, I think I will observe (if I can) for a bit.

As a Fullerite, My view on Propitiation probably differs from every Calvinist here...

 

[Carbon]

As a Fullerite, My view on Propitiation probably differs from every Calvinist here...

Andrew Fuller tried to prove a middle view of salvation, if I remember correctly. I believe he was also the first Baptist. 17th or 18th century?

 

[Bruiser]

Great topic!

I think, though, we have a slightly different understanding of propitiation. Without going into the propitiation and expiation meaning of how they relate.



Noah Webster 1828:
PROPI'TIATE, verb transitive [Latin propitio; pio. Eng. pity.]
To conciliate; to appease one offended and render him favorable; to make propitious.


1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
I'm glad you brought this topic up, because it helps in my explanation of 2 Corinthians 2:20. I will just mention it briefly.
Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 2 Corinthians 5:20.
https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/2-corinthians-5-17-21.3617/

My understand it propitiation appeases God's anger, and Christ is the propitiation of the whole world, both for the elect and the rest of the world. By his propitiatory sacrifice, the world has been reconciled.
Expiate, on the other hand, is the removal of sin.

I understand "atone" to mean to be paid for what you have done wrong (atoned for).

But I may be off? So, I think I will observe (if I can) for a bit.

Fit man ~ by ReverendRV * April 10

Leviticus 16:21 KJV; And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

In chapter 16 of the book of Leviticus, Moses gives instructions to the Priest who performed the Sacrifices made to God on the Annual ‘Day of Atonement’ ritual. The Priest first had to make a Sacrifice for himself and his family, then he would make a Sacrifice for the Sin of Israel with two young goats. The Priest cast Lots in order to determine which goat would be the bloody Sacrifice and which goat would be the Scapegoat. The Priest took the Sacrificial goat and killed it on the Alter, to shed blood for the Remission of Israel’s Sins for that year. After this, the Priest would put both of his hands on the Scapegoat, and confess the Sins of Israel upon it. Then a Fit Man would lead the Scapegoat and its burden of Sin out of the camp to the wilderness. It would be let loose and sent to desert places far away, never to return; and be presented alive to God…

But you ask, “Why the two goats? Didn’t the Priest make Atonement with the Sacrificial goat?” The Priest did make Atonement with the Sacrificial goat; but he also made Atonement with the Scapegoat. Leviticus 16:10 says, “But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the Scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an Atonement with him and let him go as a Scapegoat into the wilderness.” We see that both goats were needed to make an Atonement for the nation of Israel; without both, the Atonement would’ve fallen short. You ask, “What’s this Atonement business??” ~ God has said that without the shedding of blood there is no Remission of Sin. Sin is Transgressing the boundaries where there are signs posted which say ‘No Trespassing’. These no trespassing signs are carved in stone and called the Ten Commandments. Have you ever told a Lie? What do you call a person who tells Lies? If you call someone a Liar for Lying to YOU, you would be a Liar for telling a Lie; Quid Pro Quo? That is just one of the Ten Commandments; if there is a God, would you be guilty of Sin? Read the Ten Commandments in Exodus chapter 20 and see how easy it is to break Gods Law. You will need a Sacrificial lamb AND a Scapegoat to keep you out of Gods prison, which is the fires of Hell. ~ But the Temple no longer exists…

John the Baptist said that Jesus was the Lamb of God which takes away the Sin of the world. The ‘Day of Atonement’ ritual was symbolic of Jesus in that he fulfilled the requirements of both the young goats. Jesus shed his blood because he was scourged by the Romans nearly to the death. Then he was led out of the city of Jerusalem, led out of the camp, by a Fit Man. ~ After they had scourged and mocked Jesus, they took the robe off from him, and put his own clothes on him, and led him away to Crucify him. And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his Cross. Simon fulfills the role of the Fit Man who leads the Scapegoat out of Jerusalem to the place of Crucifixion. Jesus died that day but he rose from the dead and was presented alive to the LORD. The Bible authenticates itself and it’s trustworthy; Jesus is trustworthy. Place your Faith in him, Repent of your Sins and Confess him as Lord, and God will be pleased to declare you as innocent as a lamb; the lamb of God, Jesus Christ…

1st Timothy 1:15 KJV: This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom am chief.

 

[Bruiser]

Andrew Fuller tried to prove a middle view of salvation, if I remember correctly. I believe he was also the first Baptist. 17th or 18th century?

He left Hyper Calvinism and is the father of Sunday School, and a father of Missions...

 

[Bruiser]

Can someone change the Thread title to Double Propitiation please!

I wish there weren't a time limit to edit here...

Bump...

 

[Carbon]

Bump...

It's been changed.

 

[Bruiser]

It's been changed.

My screen still says Double Predestination, not Double Propitiation. Maybe it will take a minute...

 

[Carbon]

My screen still says Double Predestination, not Double Propitiation. Maybe it will take a minute...

You're right. I'll change that now.

 

[Carbon]

@Bruiser

Title changed.

 

[Bruiser]

My explanation of Double Propitiation would be like a two headed Nickel. A two headed Nickel of Propitiation can only flip and land on Propitiation without Expiation. But a Nickel with a Heads and a Tails is like a Christian who has both Christ's Propitiation and Expiation. Christ can be the Propitiation of the World, without being the Savior of the World...

 

[Carbon]

My explanation of Double Propitiation would be like a two headed Nickel. A two headed Nickel of Propitiation can only flip and land on Propitiation without Expiation. But a Nickel with a Heads and a Tails is like a Christian who has both Christ's Propitiation and Expiation. Christ can be the Propitiation of the World, without being the Savior of the World...

I am not getting your meaning of a double propitiation.

I dont see propitiation as a double; something is either propitiated, or it's not. And if it is, it does not need to be re-propitiated.

You lost me.

 

[Bruiser]

I am not getting your meaning of a double propitiation.

I dont see propitiation as a double; something is either propitiated, or it's not. And if it is, it does not need to be re-propitiated.

You lost me.

Sorry. I look at Propitiation as two halves of one thing. Half for All, the other half for the Elect. Both halves are combined into One by Expiation...

 

[Carbon]

Sorry. I look at Propitiation as two halves of one thing. Half for All, the other half for the Elect. Both halves are combined into One by Expiation...

Okay

 

[Bruiser]

Okay

The reason I view it this way is because of the two Goats on the Day of Atonement. Both made Atonement; the Sacrifice alone wasn't enough. The Scape Goat alone wasn't enough. Combining them both is what's required. The two Goats are each half of the Propitiation...

 

[Carbon]

The reason I view it this way is because of the two Goats on the Day of Atonement. Both made Atonement; the Sacrifice alone wasn't enough. The Scape Goat alone wasn't enough. Combining them both is what's required. The two Goats are each half of the Propitiation...

I understand that a bit different also. I will share if your intersted.

 

[Carbon]

@Bruiser

I understand the two goats represent Christ's sacrifice and the removal of sin. Type and shadow of Christ's sacrifice.

The goat sent into the wilderness represents our sin removed and taken away as far as the east is from the west.
The goat that was sacrificed as a sin offering (Christ's sacrifice) made atonement for the elect.

So, it was "one" complete atonement. Both the cleansing by blood and the removal of guilt.

So, propitiation and expiation are one and the same. Do you realize it was liberal Christians who separated the two and added expiation to the AV?

 

[Bruiser]

@Bruiser

I understand the two goats represent Christ's sacrifice and the removal of sin. Type and shadow of Christ's sacrifice.

The goat sent into the wilderness represents our sin removed and taken away as far as the east is from the west.
The goat that was sacrificed as a sin offering (Christ's sacrifice) made atonement for the elect.

So, it was "one" complete atonement. Both the cleansing by blood and the removal of guilt.

So, propitiation and expiation are one and the same. Do you realize it was liberal Christians who separated the two and added expiation to the AV?

That's what a lot of Calvinists believe. I would differ because of Covenant Theology. Adam Failed to keep the Old Covenant, Jesus succeeded in Keeping the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant has Universal Consequences. All died in Adam; that's a Universal Consequence. Christ Kept the Covenant of Works; and it has Universal Consequences, as seen from from Adam's broken Covenant of Works. This is how we can accept that Jesus is the Propitiation of the World; his Covenant reached All, like Adam's reached All...