When does the New Jerusalem come down to earth?

[Bob Carabbio]

When does the New Jerusalem come down to earth?​

When it's time.

 

[donadams]

I'm glad you used "mostly"...as much of it is literal.

Are you saying a 1380 square mile city couldn't come down from heaven?

Lk 1:37
But it also says in rev 1 must soon come to pass

The new Jerusalem is now our mother! Gal 4:26

 

[EarlyActs]

It's part of the NHNE; that is why it is now always seen as 'above' or hovering, yet is endeared. It is beyond something that can exist in the physical world as we know it, so it has many features beyond it.

re 'above.' When Jesus talked to Nic, Jn 3, he wanted him to be born 'anothen' (above) so that he could see the kingdom. It is important to remember that he was not telling him how to be saved; he was trying to help him see something--the reign of Christ. This also happens to mean 'from the beginning' suggesting that it was meant to be seen as far back as Abraham, and in the stars. So the natural descent in Judaism would be of no help.

 

[Hobie]

If the last few chapters of Revelation are taken chronologically then the new city of peace comes down long after the 1000 years has come and gone, and only after satan, death, and all the Christ-deniers are tossed in the fiery lake so deadly even death is destroyed.

Therefore, it's not something with which we need to concern ourselves at the expense of all else we're called to accomplish before that happens.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.


Those who do not perform the good works for which we have been created in Christ are not fulfilling the purpose for which we have been saved. I question whether waiting is a good work or a good non-work .

Yes, we see the sequence in Revelation 20...
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them

 

[Keiw1]

The New Jerusalem is God’s city in his Kingdom in heaven, built for saints who love Him and keep His commandments. The New Jerusalem will be the home of the saints taken up at the Second Coming at the resurrection, where they will reign with Christ in heaven during the millennium and, afterward, on the new earth for eternity. Satan is shut up in the 'bottomless pit' during this time and cannot deceive till after the thousand years of the millennium.

Revelation 20:3-6
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

So this brings into question, when will the new heaven and new earth be created? We see the New Jerusalem that God promised coming down to the recreated earth where it replaces the original Jerusalem as promised to those who overcome.

Revelation 21:2
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

So we see that the earth and the heavens above it will be recreated, and we not even remember or it come to mind.

Isaiah 65:17
For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isaiah 66:22
For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.

2 Peter 3:13
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

So the New Jerusalem will be in a reconstituted earth with the heavens above also, so what happens to the wicked, scripture is clear.

Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Here is where the saints will reign with Christ, with no more tears, or remembrance of the old earth and the former things that happened, in the New Jerusalem 'wherein dwelleth righteousness', for eternity. Where we shall see flowing from the throne of God, the pure river of life, with the tree of life, and “they shall see His face”.

Revelation 22:1-4
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

The new Jerusalem= the bride of Christ=144,000-Rev 21:2

 

[Bob Carabbio]

When does the New Jerusalem come down to earth?​

When it's time.

Next question?

 

[Josheb]

Yes,

we see the sequence in Revelation 20...
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them

The salient point is the new Jerusalem does not descend until after the thousand years is finished. The text highlighted in boldface proves that fact. Whether the "thousand years" is literal or figurative does not matter when it comes to answering asked in the title of this op. The text of Revelation 20 explicitly reports the events occurring after the thousand years were finished, after they have expired.

There is no place in any prior chapter in Revelation where the new Jerusalem is stated to come down to earth until chapter 21. Therefore, anyone holding a premillennial view of the new Jerusalem's descent is incorrect. That event is postmillennial, after the thousand years were finished and expired.

 

[Eleanor]

When does the New Jerusalem come down to earth?​

At the one second coming in the last day.

Matthew, John and Paul, alive and waiting for the second coming, spoke of that coming in terms of occurring only once, in association with all four of the following events occurring in the last day:

Jesus locates the resurrection in the last day (Jn 6:39),
Paul locates the resurrection with the rapture (1 Th 4:16).
Jesus locates the rapture with the second coming (Mt 24:39-41).
Jesus locates the second coming with the judgment of the sheep and goats (Mt 25:31-33).

So in terms of the time of their occurrence, the necessary conclusion is:
the last day = resurrection = rapture = second coming = final judgment of sheep and goats (all mankind).

Keeping in mind that the resurrection in "the last day" is of all mankind, meaning it includes all the saints since Adam, which is the one people of God, the church (ekklesia, called-out assembly) of both OT and NT saints (Ac 7:38), who are the
bride, wife of the Lamb (Rev 21:9-10) in the two-in-one enfleshment of the marital union (Eph 5:30-32) and the New Jerusalem (Rev 21:10).

At the one second coming and one resurrection in the last day, the one people of God of all time, who are the New Jerusalem, will be raptured in the one rapture to go out (up) and meet the Lord in the air (1 Th 4:16-17) and to accompany him back to earth (parousia, as they went out of the city to meet Jesus and accompany him back into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday with hosanna's, a prefigure of the second coming) for the one Final Judgment of the sheep and the goats in the last day.

 

[EarlyActs]

When it's time.

Next question?

The important part of this is that we tend to forget the simple clarity of the NT about the final judgement. It was never meant to get too far from that, certainly not a puzzle of events, where 10,000 authors say you have to have their system to know the answer. The NT letters in ordinary language (not the Rev) are the best way to keep this direct and simple. Rom 2 should be more important to us than hours in the Rev.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

The important part of this is that we tend to forget the simple clarity of the NT about the final judgement. It was never meant to get too far from that, certainly not a puzzle of events, where 10,000 authors say you have to have their system to know the answer. The NT letters in ordinary language (not the Rev) are the best way to keep this direct and simple. Rom 2 should be more important to us than hours in the Rev.

SO you don't know anything about the "New Jerusalem" either.

 

[EarlyActs]

SO you don't know anything about the "New Jerusalem" either.

I have no idea why you said that. It is the form of Jereusalem meant since the prophets came. It is just above . It is intimate to us believers. Gal 4, Heb 11-13

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I have no idea why you said that. It is the form of Jereusalem meant since the prophets came. It is just above . It is intimate to us believers. Gal 4, Heb 11-13

Unresponsive.

 

[EarlyActs]

Unresponsive.

Meaning what?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Meaning what?

You don't know anything about the "New Jerusalem" either.

 

[EarlyActs]

You don't know anything about the "New Jerusalem" either.

You’re being pointless. All there is to know is in Gal 4 and Heb 11-13. Which reference do you want to discuss?. I know the reference in Rev 21-22 but I never base anything on the Rev unless is it established in normal non-symbolic text first.

The Gal and Heb themselves include OT quotes .

 

[EarlyActs]

The New Jerusalem is God’s city in his Kingdom in heaven, built for saints who love Him and keep His commandments. The New Jerusalem will be the home of the saints taken up at the Second Coming at the resurrection, where they will reign with Christ in heaven during the millennium and, afterward, on the new earth for eternity. Satan is shut up in the 'bottomless pit' during this time and cannot deceive till after the thousand years of the millennium.

Revelation 20:3-6
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

So this brings into question, when will the new heaven and new earth be created? We see the New Jerusalem that God promised coming down to the recreated earth where it replaces the original Jerusalem as promised to those who overcome.

Revelation 21:2
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

So we see that the earth and the heavens above it will be recreated, and we not even remember or it come to mind.

Isaiah 65:17
For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isaiah 66:22
For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.

2 Peter 3:13
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

So the New Jerusalem will be in a reconstituted earth with the heavens above also, so what happens to the wicked, scripture is clear.

Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Here is where the saints will reign with Christ, with no more tears, or remembrance of the old earth and the former things that happened, in the New Jerusalem 'wherein dwelleth righteousness', for eternity. Where we shall see flowing from the throne of God, the pure river of life, with the tree of life, and “they shall see His face”.

Revelation 22:1-4
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

It is already existing, just above us. I think that is what Mt 27 was saying about those who resurrected.

 

[EarlyActs]

What we need to do is remember context~that's what drives our understanding of what is being spoken. Before I start addressing Revelation 21,22~We must remember.................

Interpretations must agree with their context.​

We must remember this law: A text used out of context is a pretext. We cannot violate it; we must learn to spot it.

1. A text is a word, clause, verse, paragraph, chapter, or book you are seeking to interpret.
2. Context is the surrounding information, which shows the author’s meaning by the text.
3. Out of context is using words and their sound contrary to the surrounding information.
4. A pretext is a false and incorrect impression designed to hide or disguise the real intent.
5. Using a verse contrary to its context gives a misleading and deceitful sound of words to teach something the author did not intend and/or is not true. We must reject this abuse of words!
6. You have had your words used out of context before, and you hated the corruption of your intent and meaning. We must make sure we never do it with the precious Word of God.
7. This rule applies to all writings and conversations of every sort, and so context is well understood by most people. Contracts, court records, novels, promises, and poetry are all understood in context, or surrounding information, to truly understand their meaning.
8. Even single words are meaningless without a context, which is why we asked our teacher to use them in a sentence before we would try to spell them in a spelling bee!
9. Even if you use a verse to teach a true point, make sure we still honor its context. For using the wrong verse to teach the right point is the first subtle step to heresy. Mark it! What is context? Let us make sure we understand exactly what we mean by context
10. Context. The whole structure of a connected passage regarded in its bearing upon any of the parts which constitute it; the parts which immediately precede or follow any particular passage or ‘text’ and determine its meaning. [OED]
11. Context is the surrounding information that tells us what an author means by individual words, sentences, or paragraphs within a passage. Without grasping the author’s viewpoint and intent, we will face many words and turns of phrase that we will not properly understand. By missing the author’s perspective, we will be confused and misinterpret particular and individual words, sentences, and paragraphs of the work.
12. Context means the weaving together of words and sentences. We must determine the sense of Scripture and not just its sound. We do this by carefully considering the connection that each word, sentence, and section have to those around it. Every word in the Bible is part of a verse, every verse part of a paragraph, every paragraph part of a chapter, every chapter part of a book, and every book is part of the whole Bible. How in the world can we presume to isolate single words and sentences?
13. Again, remember when your own words have been used out of context. A single word, sentence, paragraph, speech, or document was singled out and given a meaning that did not agree with all the words, expressions, tones, circumstances, audience, acts, or facts surrounding it. You were rightly offended, and so is the Lord when we abuse His word!
14. Now, we shall return later and prove that Revelation 21,22 is the church in her final, eternal glorified state, having the glory of God described to us by using highly symbolic language!

A good list