When does the Judgment happen.

[JesusFan]

One has to repent of his sin and turn to Christ and receive Him, and He will judge if you have truly done so, not just given lip service....

John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
2 Timothy 4:1
I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
1 Peter 4:5
Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

Already have been judged for my sins, as right now having been justified and having eternal life in Christ Jesus

 

[prism]

as Jesus will not be their mediator before God at that time, Really heretical, as denies Pauline Justification

Also denies the letter to the Hebrews (whoever the Author)...
Hebrews 7:25 KJV
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

 

[Oseas]

Also denies the letter to the Hebrews (whoever the Author)...
Hebrews 7:25 KJV
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Yes, JESUS in His prayer to the Father, said: -> JOHN 17:6-9
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world(satanic world of the red dragon-Revelation 12:9), but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

 

[Paul]

What/when is the resurrection of the unrighteous and for what purpose as in those who died with guilt still on them? As far as those who are born of God isn't that a judgement already made by God while in the life of the body in one's favor and that Spirit resides with the believer forever as Jesus stated. Jesus spoke of those who would rise to be condemned.

There seems to be different understandings in regard to the timing. Amil, premil etc..

I think it was well taught and understood the resurrection of the righteous was on the last day and is a gathering from the ends of the heavens to the ends of the earth. Those being alive on earth on that day are caught up and clothed with Spiritual bodies as in clothed with immortality as flesh and blood can't inherit the eternal kingdom God promised to those who love and obey Him.

Therefore, those who don't rise on that day must be those who suffer. The 1st resurrection notes those who remained faithful to Jesus. The 2nd resurrection is stated at a later date. The 2nd resurrection must be those who rise to be condemned as in those called dead as they perished. There is a resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous. Just 2 as I read. Daniel 12 also speaks of this outcome. "MY" take from a premil understanding is the dead in sin rise to be condemned 1000 years after the resurrection of the righteous. They are consigned to the lake of fire. (burning sulfur) I understand there are different opinions that differ from my own but what I state is my understanding.

 

[Oseas]

Has eternal punishment begun? Will be?​

In fact it is LITERALLY already running.

It's very hard to understand and to say, but the Truth is that we have entered in the period of sorrows->(Matthew 24:3-8, period pre-tribulation) a time of great sufferings until the END of this current world, and of the coming of JESUS. There shall be upon the earth distress of nations, and men's hearts failing them for fear looking those things which are coming on the earth. - Luke 21:25-28.

Be sure that the ETERNAL punishment had a specific and pre-determined time to start, I MUST tell it has already started, the question is that it will NEVER END, it will NEVER STOP, it will be for ever ande ever. Get ready.
Has eternal punishment begun? Will be?

 

[prism]

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world(satanic world of the red dragon-Revelation 12:9), but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

I wouldn't add to God's Word.

 

[Oseas]

I wouldn't add to God's Word.

You quoted Hebrews 7:25, as follow:

Hebrews 7:25 KJV
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. (emphasis mine)

Thank you for your reply. My point was to confirm the Word of GOD in Hebrews 7:25 by the own Word of GOD preached by the Lord JESUS. Our Saviour JESUS Christ in His prayer said to the Father that He had given unto them (" them that come unto GOD by Him" and was saved ) the words which the Father gave Him; and they have received the words He preached, according to the John 17, where JESUS intercedes exclusively for them which have believed that GOD did send Him.

John 1:11-13 reveal: ->11 He came unto His own, and His own received Him not.
12 But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of GOD, even to them that believe on His name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of GOD.

On the other hand, the Saviour JESUS Christ did not interced for the world->(the satanic world of the red dragon-Revelation 12:9), as is written: -> John 17:12:-> 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that Thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition->(now red dragon-Revelation 12:3-4 and 9); that the scripture might be fulfilled.

 

[makesends]

Oseas said:
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world(satanic world of the red dragon-Revelation 12:9), but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

prism said:
I wouldn't add to God's Word.

You quoted Hebrews 7:25, as follow:

Thank you for your reply. My point was to confirm the Word of GOD in Hebrews 7:25 by the own Word of GOD preached by the Lord JESUS. Our Saviour JESUS Christ in His prayer said to the Father that He had given unto them (" them that come unto GOD by Him" and was saved ) the words which the Father gave Him; and they have received the words He preached, according to the John 17, where JESUS intercedes exclusively for them which have believed that GOD did send Him.

John 1:11-13 reveal: ->11 He came unto His own, and His own received Him not.
12 But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of GOD, even to them that believe on His name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of GOD.

On the other hand, the Saviour JESUS Christ did not interced for the world->(the satanic world of the red dragon-Revelation 12:9), as is written: -> John 17:12:-> 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that Thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition->(now red dragon-Revelation 12:3-4 and 9); that the scripture might be fulfilled.

@Oseas please deal with what was said. @prism wasn't referring to Hebrews, but to your 'quote' of John 17:9. You added, "(satanic world of the red dragon-Revelation 12:9), which is not what John 17:9 says.

To continue as though he had not been referring to that, you are shifting the subject of his point. Answer him: Did you or did you not add to God's Word? You did! Admit your mistake.

MOD HAT: Next time, if all you meant is to impose your opinion on what a reader considers as he reads the scripture you quote, don't include what you opine within the text of the quote. This violates clarity and can be seen as a violation of the rules concerning the use of Scripture and of thinking oneself of some authority over scripture.

 

[Oseas]

OK, thank you for your information.

Only allow me to say that I highlighted it in parenthesis, this means that the content is not part of the verse, so for me it is not adding opinion to the Scriptures, only inserting something as accessory information. For examples: 2Thessalonians 1:10->10 When He shall come to be glorified in His saints, and to be admired in all them that believe ( because our testimony among you was believed ) in that Day. ->( Day with capital "D" because refers to the Lord's Day, the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium, not to a common 24h day."

Matthew 24:15 ->15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Dear bother, I am only trying to clarify how I see including words in parenthesis in biblical verses, not justifying or discussing about.

GOD bless

 

[makesends]

OK, thank you for your information.

Only allow me to say that I highlighted it in parenthesis, this means that the content is not part of the verse, so for me it is not adding opinion to the Scriptures, only inserting something as accessory information. For examples: 2Thessalonians 1:10->10 When He shall come to be glorified in His saints, and to be admired in all them that believe ( because our testimony among you was believed ) in that Day. ->( Day with capital "D" because refers to the Lord's Day, the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium, not to a common 24h day."

Matthew 24:15 ->15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Dear bother, I am only trying to clarify how I see including words in parenthesis in biblical verses, not justifying or discussing about.

GOD bless

It was obviously an add-in, I agree, but it should have been stated as such, and not as definition for "the world". The information within parenthesis was not necessary for understanding the verse, but only for understanding your use of it. But even then, it would be better mentioned outside of the quote, to avoid misunderstanding by anyone less familiar with the Bible.

 

[Oseas]

It was obviously an add-in, I agree, but it should have been stated as such, and not as definition for "the world". The information within parenthesis was not necessary for understanding the verse, but only for understanding your use of it. But even then, it would be better mentioned outside of the quote, to avoid misunderstanding by anyone less familiar with the Bible.

Okay, brother, I understood. I appreciated your considerations.
May our Lord GOD bless us.
Amen.

 

[prism]

For examples: 2Thessalonians 1:10->10 When He shall come to be glorified in His saints, and to be admired in all them that believe ( because our testimony among you was believed ) in that Day. ->( Day with capital "D" because refers to the Lord's Day, the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium, not to a common 24h day."

I'm not sure which translation you are using, but I checked the KJV NKJV NASB (1995) and ESV, none of them capitalize Day. (ἡμέρα).

The word day ἡμέρα, from which the translators translate the Greek manuscripts, some of which are found with all caps, while others are all lowercase. So it is really the translator's call to capitalize a word or not.

Koine Greek used no punctuation.

 

[prism]

 

[Oseas]

I'm not sure which translation you are using, but I checked the KJV NKJV NASB (1995) and ESV, none of them capitalize Day. (ἡμέρα).

The word day ἡμέρα, from which the translators translate the Greek manuscripts, some of which are found with all caps, while others are all lowercase. So it is really the translator's call to capitalize a word or not.

Koine Greek used no punctuation.
View attachment 1266

Greetings in Christ JESUS, brother

Thank you for your kind reply, and interesting message. What should I say about?

It's simple. No matter what translation it is, the difference in interpretation lies in interpreting by the letter and by the Spirit. Interpretation by the letter in any biblical version is deadly, the letter kills. The letter is one of the edges of the Sword of GOD, it was made by Him and is to be used to kill. By allegory, is the tree of good and evil – Genesis 2:17 combined with 3:22 and also 3:1, where the MAN of sin, the son of perdition, used this deadly edge of God's Word to deceive and kill through its literal interpretation. See the consequence in Genesis 3:8-11; it is terrible. By the way, there is the origin of the rebellion that happened in GOD's garden, the Garden of Eden, and continues to this day – Revelation 12:3-4 and 9.

On the other hand, the interpretation by the Spirit in any biblical version, I mean the other edge of the Lord's Sword, is used to give Life. The Word is God, God is Spirit, the Spirit of life, the Tree of Life eternally – Genesis 2:9.

That's how I judge,-> by the Word of GOD.

May our Lord GOD bless us.
Amen.

 

[prism]

Greetings in Christ JESUS, brother

Thank you for your kind reply, and interesting message. What should I say about?

It's simple. No matter what translation it is, the difference in interpretation lies in interpreting by the letter and by the Spirit. Interpretation by the letter in any biblical version is deadly, the letter kills. The letter is one of the edges of the Sword of GOD, it was made by Him and is to be used to kill. By allegory, is the tree of good and evil – Genesis 2:17 combined with 3:22 and also 3:1, where the MAN of sin, the son of perdition, used this deadly edge of God's Word to deceive and kill through its literal interpretation. See the consequence in Genesis 3:8-11; it is terrible. By the way, there is the origin of the rebellion that happened in GOD's garden, the Garden of Eden, and continues to this day – Revelation 12:3-4 and 9.

On the other hand, the interpretation by the Spirit in any biblical version, I mean the other edge of the Lord's Sword, is used to give Life. The Word is God, God is Spirit, the Spirit of life, the Tree of Life eternally – Genesis 2:9.

That's how I judge,-> by the Word of GOD.

May our Lord GOD bless us.
Amen.

The problem I see between the letter and the spirit is this... in post #49, you were being quite literal, even to the point of arguing that the word "day" should be capitalized big D.

Yet in post #43, you went beyond Scripture in introducing a red dragon, while Scripture speaks nothing about that.

So either way, one can fall into a trap.

 

[makesends]

Greetings in Christ JESUS, brother

Thank you for your kind reply, and interesting message. What should I say about?

It's simple. No matter what translation it is, the difference in interpretation lies in interpreting by the letter and by the Spirit. Interpretation by the letter in any biblical version is deadly, the letter kills. The letter is one of the edges of the Sword of GOD, it was made by Him and is to be used to kill. By allegory, is the tree of good and evil – Genesis 2:17 combined with 3:22 and also 3:1, where the MAN of sin, the son of perdition, used this deadly edge of God's Word to deceive and kill through its literal interpretation. See the consequence in Genesis 3:8-11; it is terrible. By the way, there is the origin of the rebellion that happened in GOD's garden, the Garden of Eden, and continues to this day – Revelation 12:3-4 and 9.

On the other hand, the interpretation by the Spirit in any biblical version, I mean the other edge of the Lord's Sword, is used to give Life. The Word is God, God is Spirit, the Spirit of life, the Tree of Life eternally – Genesis 2:9.

That's how I judge,-> by the Word of GOD.

May our Lord GOD bless us.
Amen.

Your intent may be noble, but your generalization invokes an inference that the Spirit does not operate through reason. You have characterized that which is letter literally as though it OPPOSES that which is Spirit, and that is mistaken. Every case is to be considered by exegesis, though not to the exclusion of spirit and prayer, literal or not.

MOD HAT NOTICE: Please read and understand the rule quoted below. Take care to avoid all appearance of such an infraction.

3.1. Use scripture as the foundation for discussion. Support theological claims with relevant scripture passages whenever applicable. Interpret scripture carefully, considering context, historical background, and sound hermeneutical principles. Thoughtful engagement with biblical texts is encouraged over proof-texting or out-of-context citations. Appeals to private revelation, personal spiritual insight, or unverifiable claims of divine endorsement are not a substitute for biblical exegesis and reasoned theological argument.

If you have any questions about this, make a Direct Message to any or all staff.

 

[Oseas]

The problem I see between the letter and the spirit is this... in post #49, you were being quite literal, even to the point of arguing that the word "day" should be capitalized big D.

Yet in post #43, you went beyond Scripture in introducing a red dragon, while Scripture speaks nothing about that.

So either way, one can fall into a trap.

Hebrews 7:25 KJV
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

The verse of Hebrews above quoted refers to JESUS as "he and 'him" again "he". But when I write this verse and countless
other verses I capitalize "He and Him" because refers to my Lord JESUS Christ, not to a common man. And I always capitalize the name of my Lord. And God I capitalize too. For examples(my post #47): -> John 1:11-13->11 He came unto His own, and His own received Him not.
12 But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of GOD, even to them that believe on His name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of GOD.

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world->(satanic world of the red dragon-Revelation12:9), but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

In my posts #43 and 47 I referred to the verse above where our Lord JESUS prays to the Father and makes intercession for them which GOD the Father has given Him, but He interceds not for the world.
And in parentesys I wrote (satanic world of the red dragon-Revelation12:3 and 9)->9 - And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.->(The great red dragon will be cast out from the midst of GOD's people who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:->Ephesians 1:3-10, and so on. Alleluia!)

But the Saviour JESUS Christ did not interced for the world-> (world of the red dragon)->Revelation 12:9. As is written in John 17:12:->While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name those that Thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition that the Scripture might be fulfilled.->(now, in the time of Apocalypse, he is called red dragon-Revelation 12:3-4 and 9);

By the way, in my study of the Word of GOD(I always capitalize), 2Thessalonians 2:3-4 refer to the son of perdition, who is the MAN of sin(Genesis 3:1), and he is the dragon as is written in Revelation 13:11, and so on. In fact, he will manifest himself as a lamb, a false lamb, a false messiah-> (John 5:43-47, take a look), and False Prophet(REVELATION 16:13).

But in 2Thessalonians 2:3-4, the son of perdition will manifest himself as God->(here I cannot capitalize, of course), as follow:
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; ->(that Day is the current seventh and last Day, or seventh and last millennium. We are living in the turn from the sixthj to the seventh and last millennium. I would say, it is midnight on GOD's watch)

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of GOD, shewing himself that he is God.(Fake), ->(who will oppose and exalt himself above all as God, and as God will sit in the Great City of Jerusalem, where our Lord JESUS was crucified, spiritually called Sodom and Egypt->Revelation 11:8.

I hope to be better understood with these explanations of mine.

 

[Oseas]

Your intent may be noble, but your generalization invokes an inference that the Spirit does not operate through reason. You have characterized that which is letter literally as though it OPPOSES that which is Spirit, and that is mistaken. Every case is to be considered by exegesis, though not to the exclusion of spirit and prayer, literal or not.

MOD HAT NOTICE: Please read and understand the rule quoted below. Take care to avoid all appearance of such an infraction.

If you have any questions about this, make a Direct Message to any or all staff.

I appreciate your response, brother, but the intention of the Spirit was not that. If I am not wrong, the interpretation given to my post seems that reflects not the Spirit by which I posted the message. I stop here.
Anyway, may our Lord GOD bless us
Amen.