What if God was not talking about a building made of stone?

[Josheb]

2 Samuel 7:1-29 (excerpted for the sake of space)
Now it came about when the king lived in his house, and the LORD had given him rest on every side from all his enemies, that the king said to Nathan the prophet, "See now, I dwell in a house of cedar, but the ark of God dwells within tent curtains." Nathan said to the king, "Go, do all that is in your mind, for the LORD is with you." But in the same night the word of the LORD came to Nathan, saying, "Go and say to My servant David, 'Thus says the LORD, "Are you the one who should build Me a house to dwell in? For I have not dwelt in a house since the day I brought up the sons of Israel from Egypt, even to this day; but I have been moving about in a tent, even in a tabernacle. Wherever I have gone with all the sons of Israel, did I speak a word with one of the tribes of Israel, which I commanded to shepherd My people Israel, saying, 'Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?'"' "....................The LORD also declares to you that the LORD will make a house for you. "When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom. "He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be a father to him and he will be a son to Me; when he commits iniquity, I will correct him with the rod of men and the strokes of the sons of men, but My lovingkindness shall not depart from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you. "Your house and your kingdom shall endure before Me forever; your throne shall be established forever."'"
In accordance with all these words and all this vision, so Nathan spoke to David. Then David the king went in and sat before the LORD, and he said, "Who am I, O Lord GOD, and what is my house, that You have brought me this far? And yet this was insignificant in Your eyes, O Lord GOD, for You have spoken also of the house of Your servant concerning the distant future. And this is the custom of man, O Lord GOD............ And what one nation on the earth is like Your people Israel, whom God went to redeem for Himself as a people and to make a name for Himself, and to do a great thing for You and awesome things for Your land, before Your people whom You have redeemed for Yourself from Egypt, from nations and their gods? For You have established for Yourself Your people Israel as Your own people forever, and You, O LORD, have become their God. Now therefore, O LORD God, the word that You have spoken concerning Your servant and his house, confirm it forever, and do as You have spoken, that Your name may be magnified forever, by saying, 'The LORD of hosts is God over Israel'; and may the house of Your servant David be established before You. For You, O LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, have made a revelation to Your servant, saying, 'I will build you a house'; therefore, Your servant has found courage to pray this prayer to You. "Now, O Lord GOD, You are God, and Your words are truth, and You have promised this good thing to Your servant. "Now therefore, may it please You to bless the house of Your servant, that it may continue forever before You. For You, O Lord GOD, have spoken; and with Your blessing may the house of Your servant be blessed forever."


What if God was not talking about a building made out of stone?

This is the passage that started it all. David wants to build God a temple because all the other nations have temples to their gods, all but Israel. It is also likely David was grievously struck by the episode in which someone died because he wanted to move the ark and building a building in which to house the ark would solve the problem of ever having to move it again (thereby risking someone else's death). Notice the word "house" is used several times that do not refer to a building.

We know from multiple places in the New Testament God does not dwell in houses built by human hands. If 2 Sam. 7 is measured by those verses, then the conversations had above would mean either God is talking about a building, or He's the one building the building, and any building David or any other human builds is not going to house God.

What if God was not talking about a building made of stone?






.

 

[3 Resurrections]

What if God was not talking about a building made of stone?

In the immediate sense, God was talking about a house made of stone. David gave to Solomon the particular pattern for the house of God in 1 Chron. 28:10-18. This was given to David - "the pattern of all that he had by the spirit..." (1 Chron. 28:12.) David told Solomon in 1 Chron. 28:19, "...the Lord made me understand in writing by his hand upon me, even all the works of this pattern. And David said to Solomon his son, Be strong and of good courage, and do it: fear not, nor be dismayed: for the Lord God, even my God, will be with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee, until thou hast finished all the work for the service of the house of the Lord." That palace was "not for man, but for the Lord God." (1 Chron. 29:1).

The foundation stone upon which Solomon's temple was built (beginning in 968 967 BC) would begin the millennium period mentioned in Revelation 20. It was a literal thousand years of a God-sanctioned, stationary, physical temple worship system, the fame of which went out to all the surrounding nations. But this physical temple was only the precursor pointing forward in time to the "more glorious" spiritual temple not made with hands - with Christ as the true foundation stone laid down in AD 33 - the "chief cornerstone" which the builders had rejected.

 

[makesends]

2 Samuel 7:1-29 (excerpted for the sake of space)
Now it came about when the king lived in his house, and the LORD had given him rest on every side from all his enemies, that the king said to Nathan the prophet, "See now, I dwell in a house of cedar, but the ark of God dwells within tent curtains." Nathan said to the king, "Go, do all that is in your mind, for the LORD is with you." But in the same night the word of the LORD came to Nathan, saying, "Go and say to My servant David, 'Thus says the LORD, "Are you the one who should build Me a house to dwell in? For I have not dwelt in a house since the day I brought up the sons of Israel from Egypt, even to this day; but I have been moving about in a tent, even in a tabernacle. Wherever I have gone with all the sons of Israel, did I speak a word with one of the tribes of Israel, which I commanded to shepherd My people Israel, saying, 'Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?'"' "....................The LORD also declares to you that the LORD will make a house for you. "When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom. "He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be a father to him and he will be a son to Me; when he commits iniquity, I will correct him with the rod of men and the strokes of the sons of men, but My lovingkindness shall not depart from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you. "Your house and your kingdom shall endure before Me forever; your throne shall be established forever."'"
In accordance with all these words and all this vision, so Nathan spoke to David. Then David the king went in and sat before the LORD, and he said, "Who am I, O Lord GOD, and what is my house, that You have brought me this far? And yet this was insignificant in Your eyes, O Lord GOD, for You have spoken also of the house of Your servant concerning the distant future. And this is the custom of man, O Lord GOD............ And what one nation on the earth is like Your people Israel, whom God went to redeem for Himself as a people and to make a name for Himself, and to do a great thing for You and awesome things for Your land, before Your people whom You have redeemed for Yourself from Egypt, from nations and their gods? For You have established for Yourself Your people Israel as Your own people forever, and You, O LORD, have become their God. Now therefore, O LORD God, the word that You have spoken concerning Your servant and his house, confirm it forever, and do as You have spoken, that Your name may be magnified forever, by saying, 'The LORD of hosts is God over Israel'; and may the house of Your servant David be established before You. For You, O LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, have made a revelation to Your servant, saying, 'I will build you a house'; therefore, Your servant has found courage to pray this prayer to You. "Now, O Lord GOD, You are God, and Your words are truth, and You have promised this good thing to Your servant. "Now therefore, may it please You to bless the house of Your servant, that it may continue forever before You. For You, O Lord GOD, have spoken; and with Your blessing may the house of Your servant be blessed forever."


What if God was not talking about a building made out of stone?

This is the passage that started it all. David wants to build God a temple because all the other nations have temples to their gods, all but Israel. It is also likely David was grievously struck by the episode in which someone died because he wanted to move the ark and building a building in which to house the ark would solve the problem of ever having to move it again (thereby risking someone else's death). Notice the word "house" is used several times that do not refer to a building.

We know from multiple places in the New Testament God does not dwell in houses built by human hands. If 2 Sam. 7 is measured by those verses, then the conversations had above would mean either God is talking about a building, or He's the one building the building, and any building David or any other human builds is not going to house God.

What if God was not talking about a building made of stone?

"For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling"

"...your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit..."

"In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?"

"...he has clothed me with the garments of salvation; he has covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decks himself like a priest with a beautiful headdress, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels."

"I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God."

I think WE are the place he is preparing. I can't prove it, but indications are strong.

 

[Josheb]

In the immediate sense, God was talking about a house made of stone. David gave to Solomon the particular pattern for the house of God in 1 Chron. 28:10-18. This was given to David - "the pattern of all that he had by the spirit..." (1 Chron. 28:12.) David told Solomon in 1 Chron. 28:19, "...the Lord made me understand in writing by his hand upon me, even all the works of this pattern. And David said to Solomon his son, Be strong and of good courage, and do it: fear not, nor be dismayed: for the Lord God, even my God, will be with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee, until thou hast finished all the work for the service of the house of the Lord." That palace was "not for man, but for the Lord God." (1 Chron. 29:1).

The foundation stone upon which Solomon's temple was built (beginning in 968 967 BC) would begin the millennium period mentioned in Revelation 20. It was a literal thousand years of a God-sanctioned, stationary, physical temple worship system, the fame of which went out to all the surrounding nations. But this physical temple was only the precursor pointing forward in time to the "more glorious" spiritual temple not made with hands - with Christ as the true foundation stone laid down in AD 33 - the "chief cornerstone" which the builders had rejected.

What makes you think David was telling the truth?

Compare 2 Samuel 7 with the 1 Chronicles 28 text. Do they reconcile? Is 1 Chronicles 28 a record of some previously undisclosed revelation to David that he passes on to his son or is this a record of David's increasing waywardness? I know that last part may seem odd, but scripture does not always label a person's thoughts or conduct. God expects the reader of the Bible to know what they are reading in the context of that which precedes any given passage and what follows. So the fact that God never wanted a monarchy informs the entire story of David wanting to build a temple. So too does the episode in which David moves the ark, and a man gets killed. So too does the fact King Peace (Solomon) was not a man of peace. So too does the fact Jesus and his body of redeemed believers is the temple of God that God built. So too does the fact stones used in an altar were not supposed to be hewn (it made them works of sinful flesh!). So too does the later fact we learn God does not live in houses built by human hands. In what kind of houses does God dwell? We know David was prohibited from building the temple because he was a man with blood on his hands. Is that a reference to his being a warrior or is God foreshadowing David's future as a murderer? If the latter, then Solomon has the same problem.

These (and other aspects of whole scripture I haven't mentioned) are not facts that come accompanied with flashing neon signs announcing their relevance. God expects a person to remember ALL they have read.

If we do not consider these things then it is natural to read 1 Chronicles 28 as an implied affirmation of a plan to build a building from stone. Conversely, when we do consider these things then 1 Chronicles 28 takes on an entirely different meaning, and that meaning is not good.

The Jews made a mess of these things. The Levitical priesthood, Jerusalem, the monarchy, the temple.... all these things were perverted away from God's original design and purpose. Scripture tells us this, sometimes in veiled ways but sometime overtly, such as God's statement he considered the monarchy a rejection of Him as their King and the subsequent revelation God never dwelt in the temple . God blessed Israel in spite of their chronic disobedience and God used their sin and sinfulness for His purpose but that does not change the fact the temple was a work of sinful flesh and the temple of God that God built was not made out of stone. The temple of stone rose above the walls of a city that was built on seven hills and when the sun reflected off its gold-clad side those approaching the city could not look directly at it. Its brilliance was unmatched (which is one of the reasons the Romans did not flatten it or take it as their own - it would have easily and readily served Jupiter, Sol, or Apollos). All of these things served God's purpose and God blessed Israel in spite of itself, but all of these things were also unmitigated idolatry. In the gospels we find repeated examples of the Sads, Phars, leaders appealing to these idols in defense and in aggression against their submission to Jesus, the actual temple of God! The Messiah stood right in front of them commanding the elements of creation, fulfilling prophecy after prophecy and they denied it all, even once ascribing it to the devil!, and all because of these idols. This is why I often say Tanakh is always correct, but Judaism is often incorrect. It is incumbent upon every Christian to be discerning when he examines the Judaic roots of Christianity because much of Judaism should be discarded without reservation.

And in modern futurism we have a large swath of Christendom that Judaizes Christianity either unconsciously or unconscientiously because their theology tells them God meant what He said exactly as He said it in the OT..... and the NT does not reinterpret the OT, even though the NT sometimes clearly does so - as is the case with the temple.

Now the above is a lot of information. The salient point, or the point of inquiry for now is "Was David correct? Was he being honest? Is what David said true? Does 1 Chronicles reconcile with 2 Samuel 7?"


What makes you think David was telling the truth?

 

[Josheb]

"For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling"

"...your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit..."

"In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?"

"...he has clothed me with the garments of salvation; he has covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decks himself like a priest with a beautiful headdress, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels."

"I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God."

I think WE are the place he is preparing. I can't prove it, but indications are strong.

Yes, but the salient point of all those verses is that the "tent," the dwelling place," the "temple," is not made of stone in any of those examples. Why then should we think God is speaking about a temple of stone in2 Samuel 7? David is clearly thinking and talking about a stone temple, but that does not mean God is agreeing with Him. God is speaking God's purpose and what David hears can be understood as nothing more than confirmation bias. Everything he hears is all filtered through his own already-existing agenda and David's agenda is not God's agenda. The entire Bible is preeminently about Jesus, not the various humans involved. (Nearly) Everything in God's revelation is somehow Christological and the foundation of it all is God's revelation of Himself.

David wants to do something we later learn was not God's plan and was eventually fatally corrupting to God's people.

Would David have had his son build the temple if he knew how idolatrous it would become? How could David, given the Judaic understanding of the Messiah at that time, given what he understood as the teaching of Judaism at that time..... How could David possibly understand God Himself would rend the fabric of time, come to earth as a human being, die as a criminal, come back from the dead, become the temple of God, and then indwell humans making them sons of God?

We know from New Testament revelation David eventually understood some of it. We know he understood the difference between the LORD and the Lord, and the Lord would be his Lord, even though he was a king of Israel and everyone bent their knee to him. Did he know that at 2 Samuel 7? I do not see any indication he did. Similarly, we know David understood the relationship between the throne-sitting descendant and the resurrection because the New Testament revelation tells David was speaking about the resurrection and not a man-made chair. Did David understand that in 2 Samuel 7 when the matter of a stone temple was first broach? I do not read any indication he knew and understood these things at that point. Humanity in general, and Judaism in particular, drew sharp distinctions between humanity and God. God/gods did not become human. His messengers came in human form. The gods sometimes appeared as humans, but they were not actually human. Humans could be extraordinary, but they could not literally become God/gods. A huge ontological cavern existed between the two.

It is only later revelation that informs us of the truth. It is later revelation that tells us Judaism was immature, ignorant, and as such often mistaken and misguided.

David was talking about building a building out of stone, but was God doing the same?

 

[3 Resurrections]

What makes you think David was telling the truth?

There is no contradiction between 2 Samuel 7 and 1 Chronicles 28. David was called a prophet in Scripture. God spoke to David in 2 Samuel 7:4-16 by the prophet Nathan, and predicted that David's own son would build a house for Him. Not David, because he had been a man who made many wars and had shed much blood. God predicted Solomon would be a man of peace. Solomon initiated the Revelation 20 literal thousand years millennium period with his laying down the foundation stone of that physical temple in 968 / 967 BC; a literal millennium that lasted until AD 33 when the physical temple system was pronounced obsolete by the launching of the New Covenant with Christ as the new "Great High Priest"of the new spiritual temple not made with hands.

God had a purpose for establishing a physical temple made of stone for that millennium period, because He intended it to serve as a picture of the even more glorious spiritual temple not made with hands, set up with Christ as the True foundation stone of that temple, with the believers being built up as "living stones" upon that foundation. The physical type comes FIRST, then that which is spiritual as the antitype (1 Cor. 15:46.)

Foundation stones have great symbolic import in Scripture, from Jacob anointing the stone and calling that location "Bethel", meaning "the house of God", to Scripture calling God "the Rock of Israel", which "Rock" followed the children of Israel in the wilderness. The timing for Solomon's foundation stone being laid down is heavily emphasized, as well as Zerubbabel laying down yet another physical temple foundation stone with "seven eyes", right in the middle of the literal millennium years. Daniel 2's "stone" kingdom which destroyed the entire image of pagan empires continued the "Rock" symbolism. Christ the "chief cornerstone" was the ultimate spiritual fulfillment of all that symbolism which those physical stones portrayed.

 

[Josheb]

There is no contradiction between 2 Samuel 7 and 1 Chronicles 28.

There is if God is not talking about a stone building. If God is talking about Jesus then there exist multiple contradiction and David is lying.

David was called a prophet in Scripture. God spoke to David in 2 Samuel 7:4-16 by the prophet Nathan, and predicted that David's own son would build a house for Him.

No, that is not what 2 Samuel 7 actually states.

A son, a descendant would be the house builder BUT he would not be the only builder. God Himself would build the house. So either two people were going to build the house or one guy would build the house and that guy would be both God and a descendant of David's. Furthermore, Solomon was not in line for the throne. Solomon had not even yet been born when 2 Samuel 7 occurred!!! There were at least three, possibly as many as eight or nine sons in line for the throne ahead of Solomon. When God was speaking of a son of David that would have been understood in the context of the already living sons. As I believe I already mentioned, God told David to name the next child Jedidiah, but David disobeyed God and name the boy Peace! David wants to fulfill God's prophecy badly (pun intended) but he does so through works of the flesh, not works of the Spirit. David is the one who first picked Jedidiah/Solomon as the temple builder. He names the boy Peace because God had told David the temple builder would be a man of peace.

Okay, so I will name my next male child Peace and make him the temple builder in spite of the fact I already have several other boys who could do the job.

And the simple fact of whole scripture is that the man who said life is vanity was not a man of peace.

But wait. There's more! Not only was the temple-builder going to be God Himself and a descendant of David's, he would also be called a son of God. So now the possibilities are 1) that two people build the temple, one of whom is God and the other is a man who is both a descendant of David's and a man who would qualify as a son of God, 2) that three people would build the temple, one of which was God Himself, another of which would be a son of David's, and the third of which would be someone who was a son of God, or 3) one person would be the temple-builder and that one person would be God Himself, a descendant of David's and also a son of God. Subsequent revelation tells us it is the third option. One person builds God's house and that person is God Himself, a son of David, and THE Son of God.

So.... God di not actually state David's own son would build the hose and He most definitely did not say that house would be built of stone.

Not David, because he had been a man who made many wars and had shed much blood.

Solomon also shed blood. Before Israel enjoyed a period of peace under Solomon he waged a lot of war, killed a pile of people, and had blood of his own doing on his hands. The same prohibition applied to David applies to Solomon (and all the other earthly kings of Israel).

God predicted Solomon would be a man of peace.

Prove it.

Solomon initiated the Revelation 20....

Sheer speculation based on eisegetic interpretation. I'm not having any of it. Stick first with what scripture explicitly states. Build from what is stated. The explicit informs and explains the implicit. Inferences have to have some basis with and reconcile with what is plainly stated.

God had a purpose for establishing a physical temple made of stone.....

It has yet to be proven God has any purpose for a stone temple in 2 Samuel 7.

What if God was not talking about a temple made of stone in 2 Samuel 7?

.

Christ the "chief cornerstone" was the ultimate spiritual fulfillment of all that symbolism which those physical stones portrayed.

.....and he is not made of stone.

 

[3 Resurrections]

....and he is not made of stone.

LOL of course not. Neither is He physically composed of bread and wine. But He is frequently called a "stone" or a "rock", because of the symbolism of unmovable stability, dependability, and strength which that metaphor portrays.

You are having difficulty seeing the forest for the trees in this discussion. It was not necessary that Solomon persist in righteousness for God to use him and God's spirit-given plans for the physical temple worship system made of physical stones. God has always been able to use flawed creatures to accomplish His plans. And I would not claim Solomon's temple foundation stone initiated the literal thousand years Revelation 20 millennium unless I had Scripture that explicitly gives the foundation for this. The Scriptures are there. I have recently had an article published on the Rev. 20 millennium passage that gives all the pertaining Scripture proof for this. Not going to copy the entire 5,000 word article here, however.

 

[Josheb]

You are having difficulty seeing the forest for the trees in this discussion.

Thank you for your time but I'm not collaborating with those who can't/won't keep the posts about the posts and feel the need to make personal commentary. I am not having difficulty seeing anything and do not appreciate the accusation (whether intended as such or not). Please correct Post 8 (or do not expect further response from me).

 

[3 Resurrections]

Discussing the physical foundation stone of Solomon's temple which began the literal thousand millennium years IS about the post. You want to make the "house" which the son of David built only a spiritual one, and it wasn't - to begin with. That "house" later did become about Christ the Son of David who became the spiritual stone of the living temple - the spiritual house. Please don't do what the Full Preterists do by tending to make everything be about the spiritual sense of a passage. It's FIRST the natural, THEN the spiritual. Gotta have a physical type before you have a spiritual antitype.

 

[XrzrX]

And Solomon broke God's decree that no stone was to be hewn. They were hewn so fine they didn't even need mortar. Pride.. The second temple was even worse.

 

[makesends]

Yes, but the salient point of all those verses is that the "tent," the dwelling place," the "temple," is not made of stone in any of those examples. Why then should we think God is speaking about a temple of stone in2 Samuel 7? David is clearly thinking and talking about a stone temple, but that does not mean God is agreeing with Him. God is speaking God's purpose and what David hears can be understood as nothing more than confirmation bias. Everything he hears is all filtered through his own already-existing agenda and David's agenda is not God's agenda.

Of course! I was agreeing with you.

The same sort of confirmation bias can be seen in the synergist's view of several passages, among which we have Jesus answering someone's false question: "What should we do, to do the work of God?" which the NIV takes the liberty to render "...the works God requires". The synergist see Jesus explaining what the work of God is to believe, and it never enters his horizon of thought, that Jesus is answering in a very clever twist of thought, in his use of "work", (where the syntax has not changed as to whose work it is, though the 'worker' has) —those asking the question did not mean what Jesus meant.

 

[Josheb]

Of course! I was agreeing with you.

The same sort of confirmation bias can be seen in the synergist's view of several passages, among which we have Jesus answering someone's false question: "What should we do, to do the work of God?" which the NIV takes the liberty to render "...the works God requires". The synergist see Jesus explaining what the work of God is to believe, and it never enters his horizon of thought, that Jesus is answering in a very clever twist of thought, in his use of "work", (where the syntax has not changed as to whose work it is, though the 'worker' has) —those asking the question did not mean what Jesus meant.

Amen! And if I may add another context, he says those words knowing the simple logic of the finite's inability to ever reach the Infinite. So (to jump ahead).....


I conclude God was never speaking about a stone temple in 2 Sam. 7 and the only time a stone temple is ever His concern is after the cursed thing is built. AND..... and no point in the scriptures should any of God's references to the stone building be conflated with God's references to Jesus. Same word ("temple") completely different meanings. I we were Jews we'd think it was all about the same thing but we're not Jews. If we were Dispies we'd acknowledge a duality and the premise the same word can mean different things, but the premise of God always talking about a completely different temple is rejected. After all, He's going to see to it that another temple is built in our future .

Yeah, well, what if God was not talking about a building made of stone when he first spoke to David?

 

[makesends]

Amen! And if I may add another context, he says those words knowing the simple logic of the finite's inability to ever reach the Infinite. So (to jump ahead).....


I conclude God was never speaking about a stone temple in 2 Sam. 7 and the only time a stone temple is ever His concern is after the cursed thing is built. AND..... and no point in the scriptures should any of God's references to the stone building be conflated with God's references to Jesus. Same word ("temple") completely different meanings. I we were Jews we'd think it was all about the same thing but we're not Jews. If we were Dispies we'd acknowledge a duality and the premise the same word can mean different things, but the premise of God always talking about a completely different temple is rejected. After all, He's going to see to it that another temple is built in our future .

Yeah, well, what if God was not talking about a building made of stone when he first spoke to David?

Yep!

Confirmation Bias.

 

[3 Resurrections]

the only time a stone temple is ever His concern is after the cursed thing is built.

1 Chron. 28:6. "And he said unto me, Solomon thy son, he shall build my house and my courts; for I have chosen him to be my son, and I will be his father."

2 Chron. 7:1. Now when Solomon had made an end of praying, the fire came down from heaven, and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices; and the glory of the Lord filled the house. And the priests could not enter into the house of the Lord, because the glory of the Lord had filled the Lord's house."

2 Chron. 7:12, 16, 20-21. "And the Lord appeared to Solomon by night, and said unto him, I have heard thy prayer, and have chosen this place to myself for an house of sacrifice....For now have I chosen and sanctified this house, that my name may be there for ever...But if ye turn away, and forsake my statues and my commandments, which I have set before you, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them; Then will I pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and this house, which I have sanctified for my name, will I cast out of my sight, and will make it to be a proverb and a byword among all nations. And this house, which is high, shall be an astonishment to every one that passeth by it..."

The temple and God's plans for it as given by the Spirit unto David were originally sanctified - not cursed - with the glory of the Lord filling the house at the temple dedication as a sign of His affirmation and approval. It was only later that it became corrupted by the disobedience of God's people, with God burning it under the Babylonians. Even so, God commanded the post-exilic temple to be rebuilt, saying, "Go up to the mountain, and bring wood, and build the house; and I will take pleasure in it, and I will be glorified, saith the Lord". (Haggai 1:8) God promised to give "even peace of soul for a possession to everyone that builds, to raise up this temple." (Haggai 2:9 LXX). That post-exilic temple was pronounced as being built and "finished, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia." (Ezra 6:14).

But once more, because of the people's disobedience, that originally-sanctified house of God became corrupted again. This time, it was scheduled to be torn down to the last stone in AD 70, since the spiritual temple of Christ had already arrived with the launching of the New Covenant in AD 33 - the fulfillment of what those former physical temples of stone had symbolized beforehand.

 

[Josheb]

1 Chron. 28:6. "And he said unto me, Solomon thy son, he shall build my house and my courts; for I have chosen him to be my son, and I will be his father."

2 Chron. 7:1. Now when Solomon had made an end of praying, the fire came down from heaven, and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices; and the glory of the Lord filled the house. And the priests could not enter into the house of the Lord, because the glory of the Lord had filled the Lord's house."

2 Chron. 7:12, 16, 20-21. "And the Lord appeared to Solomon by night, and said unto him, I have heard thy prayer, and have chosen this place to myself for an house of sacrifice....For now have I chosen and sanctified this house, that my name may be there for ever...But if ye turn away, and forsake my statues and my commandments, which I have set before you, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them; Then will I pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and this house, which I have sanctified for my name, will I cast out of my sight, and will make it to be a proverb and a byword among all nations. And this house, which is high, shall be an astonishment to every one that passeth by it..."

The temple and God's plans for it as given by the Spirit unto David were originally sanctified - not cursed - with the glory of the Lord filling the house at the temple dedication as a sign of His affirmation and approval. It was only later that it became corrupted by the disobedience of God's people, with God burning it under the Babylonians. Even so, God commanded the post-exilic temple to be rebuilt, saying, "Go up to the mountain, and bring wood, and build the house; and I will take pleasure in it, and I will be glorified, saith the Lord". (Haggai 1:8) God promised to give "even peace of soul for a possession to everyone that builds, to raise up this temple." (Haggai 2:9 LXX). That post-exilic temple was pronounced as being built and "finished, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia." (Ezra 6:14).

But once more, because of the people's disobedience, that originally-sanctified house of God became corrupted again. This time, it was scheduled to be torn down to the last stone in AD 70, since the spiritual temple of Christ had already arrived with the launching of the New Covenant in AD 33 - the fulfillment of what those former physical temples of stone had symbolized beforehand.

Yeah, no, sorta.

The overarching context is that God wanted a stone temple. It was David that initiated that idea, not God. Can we agree on that?

 

[3 Resurrections]

The overarching context is that God wanted a stone temple. It was David that initiated that idea, not God. Can we agree on that?

Sorry, I don't agree. David was made to understand by God's Spirit upon him what design God wanted for the temple - the pattern and materials in 1 Chron. 28:11-19. That instruction from God David passed on to Solomon, who finished it according to the fashion it was designed by God. If Solomon made it of stone, then you can be certain that stone was on God's "blueprints".

2 Chron 3:2-3 tells us about Solomon's proceeding with this pattern. "And he began to build in the second day of the second month, in the fourth year of his reign. Now these are the things wherein Solomon was instructed for the building of the house of God. The length by cubits after the first measure was threescore cubits, and the breadth twenty cubits. And the porch...", and so on and so forth, all the way down to the snuffers, the spoons, and the tongs in 2 Chron. 4:21-22.

The impression that God wanted to give in having this temple built of stone instead of just another tabernacle, as in the wilderness wanderings, was so that Israel would have a fixed location for sacrificial worship. God told David, "Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime." (2 Samuel 7:10). Now, you and know that even a fixed location with a stone temple was no guarantee that the children of Israel would not apostatize down the road.

The contrast of this physical stone temple with the "more glorious" spiritual temple not made with hands is that we believers as "living stones" with the indwelling Holy Spirit are a vibrantly mobile temple that is not held down to a single fixed location anymore. With Christ the "chief cornerstone" supporting these "living stones" with His perfection, we cannot be destroyed as those other physical structures of stone were torn down. God first designed a temple of physical stones so that He could contrast that with a superior temple made of living stones.

 

[Josheb]

First of all, let me self-correct my own post. Post #16 should read "The overarching context is that God never wanted a stone temple. It was David that initiated that idea, not God. Can we agree on that?"

Sorry, I don't agree.

Well then, show me the verse where God initiates the subject of a stone temple prior to 2 Sameul 7. Let me clarify. 1 Chronicles 28 reports David reporting he got a plan for the temple from God. That is not God reporting God has a plan for a stone temple. You may not agree with my argument David was lying, but that does not change the fact Divid's is an anecdotal report. It is not God Himself asking for a temple to be built. You are disputing the premise David initiated the building of a stone temple. You have to provide evidence to that effect. Notice what Daivd states in 1 Chronicle 28...

1 Chronicle 28:2-3
Then King David rose to his feet and said, “Listen to me, my brethren and my people; I had intended to build a permanent home for the ark of the covenant of the LORD and for the footstool of our God. So, I had made preparations to build it. But God said to me, ‘You shall not build a house for My name because you are a man of war and have shed blood.


David's report is that he, David, intended to build a temple but God stopped him. David did not say God initiated that request. David intended to build a permanent home for the ark (as I previously posted) and David began making preparations to do so (gathering timber, stone, etc). God stopped him.


Show me the verse where God reports God initiating the temple.

Then show me the verse where God chose Solomon by name to build the temple prior to 1 Chron. 28.


You will not find either verse prior to 1 Chron. 28. No such verse will be found because no such verse exists. David, by his own report, explicitly stated it was his intent (not God's) to build a home for the ark. He tells the people God gave him a plan (a "blueprint," as you put it) but there is no record of God doing so prior to 1 Chron. 28. When you come up empty-handed looking for a verse where God initiates the idea of a stone temple prior to 1 Chron. 28, please acknowledge that fact in a post.

 

[Josheb]

The impression that God wanted to give in having this temple built of stone instead of just another tabernacle...

....is irrelevant.

I have not said God "wanted to give in." I have no idea where you got that idea. you have to at least evidence these statements if you're going to treat them as givens. No one is saying God gave in. I most certainly am not.

 

[3 Resurrections]

....is irrelevant.

I have not said God "wanted to give in." I have no idea where you got that idea. you have to at least evidence these statements if you're going to treat them as givens. No one is saying God gave in. I most certainly am not.

Perhaps you aren't catching the intent of the words I used. Let me rephrase slightly... "The impression that God intended to display by having this temple built of stone instead of just another tabernacle (as in the wilderness wanderings) was for Israel to have a stable, fixed location for sacrificial worship."