Was the Spirit of God Indwelling the Redeemed before Pentecost?

[makesends]

@Eleanor @Arial @ReverendRV @Reformedguy @Josheb @fastfredy0 @atpollard @His clay @Carbon @Ladodgers6 @Red Baker @Manfred @TMSO @Dave_Regenerated @CrazyCalvinistUncle @severalothers,nodoubt​

​

Please note: What I am saying below is what seems to me necessary to believe, but I don't stand behind it as though I am necessarily right, nor that I have even described the notion well. In fact, even what may be taken for defense of the notion is more intended to describe my point-of-view in the matter, and not to defend it.​

Seems a lot of Calvinists/Reformed think the Holy Spirit wasn't a fixture until after Pentecost. That is, (if I understand those to whom I have spoken about it), that perhaps the Holy Spirit regenerated people, before Pentecost, but that he didn't indwell them until after Pentecost.

But I don't see how anything we do, neither faith nor obedience, is done apart from his continuous work in us. To me, it is endemic to the gospel —though not at all to say that one must understand this as part of the gospel— that Salvation, to include everything from creation and election to regeneration to glorification, is wholly the work of God. As most of you probably know, I reject the notion of synergism completely —even after sanctification— in that it suggests a work of God is made valid or complete only if we cooperate.

It is true that the Holy Spirit does as it will, and cannot be restrained. (John 3) But I don't think that what I say here posits restraint upon it.

However, (to my mind, at least), not only Regeneration, but also Sanctification (of the Old Testament believers as well as those from the New) IS from the continuing work of the Holy Spirit in us. Sanctification is not only after it came and left. It remains in the believer. Faith is endemic throughout, and that IS the work of the Spirit of God.

As I understand it, and, from my POV/ experience (not that personal experience is any basis for doctrine), the indwelling of the Spirit of God is the ONLY way any of us are of any Christian integrity. Regeneration does not change a person to make them suddenly of integrity in their thinking and their decisions, but the Spirit of God in us is what causes this "ability" continuously.

It is not endemic of regenerated unglorified humans to know or understand (in the common sense) to any effective degree what they are doing or what they believe. Only God knows these things, and that, in their entirety. And I think it can be argued that even in Heaven, our very glorification does not enable us to do anything separately from God, but that it is the completed unity with (into?) God that glorifies us, and not a work done upon us in the common temporal notion.

Apart from him we can do nothing. And I think the case can be made that apart from him, we ARE nothing.

 

[Arial]

Seems a lot of Calvinists/Reformed think the Holy Spirit wasn't a fixture until after Pentecost. That is, (if I understand those to whom I have spoken about it), that perhaps the Holy Spirit regenerated people, before Pentecost, but that he didn't indwell them until after Pentecost.

I believe He did not indwell an entire group of people as He does after the crucifixion and resurrection. This idea comes from two places off the top of my head at the moment. Psalm 51: 11 Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me.

John 20:21-22 So Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you, as the Father has sent Me, I also send you." And when He has said this, He breathed on them and said to them,"Receive the Holy Spirit."

We see in the OT the Holy Spirit equipping certain individuals for certain tasks, and leading them in that task. Among other things. After Pentecost the Holy Spirit indwells all believers and continually works in them to know and do the will of God. God, it seems to me, would have to regenerate anyone who believes and trusts Him to the level of the OT saints, since He also says "no one seeks me." The difference is that it was not all Israel, and it was attached to the Law which was the standard God established for a specific community. Some learned the spirit of the law, and spiritual things are only spiritually understood, and were obedient, though not perfectly, to that as well as the letter.

I will get to the rest of your post later, as I have some questions as to how I am understanding it or not understanding it, and as I am todays cook and hostess, I need to keep one eye on the clock.

 

[CrowCross]

@Eleanor @Arial @ReverendRV @Reformedguy @Josheb @fastfredy0 @atpollard @His clay @Carbon @Ladodgers6 @Red Baker @Manfred @TMSO @Dave_Regenerated @CrazyCalvinistUncle @severalothers,nodoubt​

​

Please note: What I am saying below is what seems to me necessary to believe, but I don't stand behind it as though I am necessarily right, nor that I have even described the notion well. In fact, even what may be taken for defense of the notion is more intended to describe my point-of-view in the matter, and not to defend it.​

Seems a lot of Calvinists/Reformed think the Holy Spirit wasn't a fixture until after Pentecost. That is, (if I understand those to whom I have spoken about it), that perhaps the Holy Spirit regenerated people, before Pentecost, but that he didn't indwell them until after Pentecost.

But I don't see how anything we do, neither faith nor obedience, is done apart from his continuous work in us. To me, it is endemic to the gospel —though not at all to say that one must understand this as part of the gospel— that Salvation, to include everything from creation and election to regeneration to glorification, is wholly the work of God. As most of you probably know, I reject the notion of synergism completely —even after sanctification— in that it suggests a work of God is made valid or complete only if we cooperate.

It is true that the Holy Spirit does as it will, and cannot be restrained. (John 3) But I don't think that what I say here posits restraint upon it.

However, (to my mind, at least), not only Regeneration, but also Sanctification (of the Old Testament believers as well as those from the New) IS from the continuing work of the Holy Spirit in us. Sanctification is not only after it came and left. It remains in the believer. Faith is endemic throughout, and that IS the work of the Spirit of God.

As I understand it, and, from my POV/ experience (not that personal experience is any basis for doctrine), the indwelling of the Spirit of God is the ONLY way any of us are of any Christian integrity. Regeneration does not change a person to make them suddenly of integrity in their thinking and their decisions, but the Spirit of God in us is what causes this "ability" continuously.

It is not endemic of regenerated unglorified humans to know or understand (in the common sense) to any effective degree what they are doing or what they believe. Only God knows these things, and that, in their entirety. And I think it can be argued that even in Heaven, our very glorification does not enable us to do anything separately from God, but that it is the completed unity with (into?) God that glorifies us, and not a work done upon us in the common temporal notion.

Apart from him we can do nothing. And I think the case can be made that apart from him, we ARE nothing.

Was the Spirit of God Indwelling the Redeemed before Pentecost?​

I would say no. Did the Holy Spirit indwell some "select" people before Pentecost yes.

 

[Fred]

In the New Covenant era He permanently indwells the believer.

 

[ReverendRV]

@Eleanor @Arial @ReverendRV @Reformedguy @Josheb @fastfredy0 @atpollard @His clay @Carbon @Ladodgers6 @Red Baker @Manfred @TMSO @Dave_Regenerated @CrazyCalvinistUncle @severalothers,nodoubt​

​

Please note: What I am saying below is what seems to me necessary to believe, but I don't stand behind it as though I am necessarily right, nor that I have even described the notion well. In fact, even what may be taken for defense of the notion is more intended to describe my point-of-view in the matter, and not to defend it.​

Seems a lot of Calvinists/Reformed think the Holy Spirit wasn't a fixture until after Pentecost. That is, (if I understand those to whom I have spoken about it), that perhaps the Holy Spirit regenerated people, before Pentecost, but that he didn't indwell them until after Pentecost.

But I don't see how anything we do, neither faith nor obedience, is done apart from his continuous work in us. To me, it is endemic to the gospel —though not at all to say that one must understand this as part of the gospel— that Salvation, to include everything from creation and election to regeneration to glorification, is wholly the work of God. As most of you probably know, I reject the notion of synergism completely —even after sanctification— in that it suggests a work of God is made valid or complete only if we cooperate.

It is true that the Holy Spirit does as it will, and cannot be restrained. (John 3) But I don't think that what I say here posits restraint upon it.

However, (to my mind, at least), not only Regeneration, but also Sanctification (of the Old Testament believers as well as those from the New) IS from the continuing work of the Holy Spirit in us. Sanctification is not only after it came and left. It remains in the believer. Faith is endemic throughout, and that IS the work of the Spirit of God.

As I understand it, and, from my POV/ experience (not that personal experience is any basis for doctrine), the indwelling of the Spirit of God is the ONLY way any of us are of any Christian integrity. Regeneration does not change a person to make them suddenly of integrity in their thinking and their decisions, but the Spirit of God in us is what causes this "ability" continuously.

It is not endemic of regenerated unglorified humans to know or understand (in the common sense) to any effective degree what they are doing or what they believe. Only God knows these things, and that, in their entirety. And I think it can be argued that even in Heaven, our very glorification does not enable us to do anything separately from God, but that it is the completed unity with (into?) God that glorifies us, and not a work done upon us in the common temporal notion.

Apart from him we can do nothing. And I think the case can be made that apart from him, we ARE nothing.

There are a couple of New Testament examples of the Old Covenant 'New Birth/Regeneration/Born Again' experience. One, is in John 3 when Jesus describes the New Birth as the wind coming and going; and the Lord Conflates this with the Holy Ghost coming and going during the New Birth. This was the Old Covenant Saint's experience, not ours. Secondly, we're told when a spirit is cast out, it returns to find it's home cleansed and in order; but not Indwelt. This is an example of the New Birth under the Old Covenant; not the New Covenant...

These two are tied together by Saint Paul telling us the New Birth is the Washing of Regeneration and the Renewal of the Spirit. When a demon was cast out, the Holy Spirit would cleanse the temple of their bodies. They received a New Heart, which is synonymous with a new spirit. But the Old Testament Saints weren't Indwelt, the Spirit would come and go...

 

[ChristB4us]

Seems a lot of Calvinists/Reformed think the Holy Spirit wasn't a fixture until after Pentecost. That is, (if I understand those to whom I have spoken about it), that perhaps the Holy Spirit regenerated people, before Pentecost, but that he didn't indwell them until after Pentecost.​

Doesn't matter what the Calvinists/Reformed thinks, scripture tells you when the Holy Spirit was to be a permanent fixture in believers is when Jesus Christ was no longer present with the disciples as for why the Holy Spirit has to be sent from the Father.

John 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

From Pentecost onward....all saved believers has the Holy Ghost since salvation and He can never leave us unlike the way He did in the O.T.

Psalm 51: 11 Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me. ( quoted from @Arial 's post )

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

So when Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to the 12 disciples, including Judas Iscariot, in Matthew 10th chapter, that was a temporary indwelling. And the same goes for John 20:22 when Thomas the disciple was not with them. Both were temporary because Jesus was with them.
When Jesus had ascended to the Father above, thus glorified, was when the promise was to be sent when He was no longer with them.
John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

That is what Jesus told Nicodemus for when a believer will be born again of the Spirit which is after His ascension which is after His crucifixion.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[ReverendRV]

Doesn't matter what the Calvinists/Reformed thinks, scripture tells you when the Holy Spirit was to be a permanent fixture in believers is when Jesus Christ was no longer present with the disciples as for why the Holy Spirit has to be sent from the Father.

John 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

From Pentecost onward....all saved believers has the Holy Ghost since salvation and He can never leave us unlike the way He did in the O.T.

Psalm 51: 11 Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me. ( quoted from @Arial 's post )

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

So when Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to the 12 disciples, including Judas Iscariot, in Matthew 10th chapter, that was a temporary indwelling. And the same goes for John 20:22 when Thomas the disciple was not with them. Both were temporary because Jesus was with them.
When Jesus had ascended to the Father above, thus glorified, was when the promise was to be sent when He was no longer with them.
John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

That is what Jesus told Nicodemus for when a believer will be born again of the Spirit which is after His ascension which is after His crucifixion.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Very good...

When a Non Calvinist agrees the OT Saints weren't Indwelt, that says a lot...

 

[ChristB4us]

Also, once received by faith in Jesus Christ, no believer should ask for the holy spirit again unless they make the Father look evil as if He did not give the Holy spirit the first time for knocking at the door of Jesus Christ.

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

That would be ignoring Paul's warning about seeking to receive another Jesus or another spirit as if preaching another gospel.

2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

So don't let any apostate calling lead you astray by looking to receive the Holy Spirit by a sign for that is how spiritual fornication is committed..

Matthew 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

 

[ReverendRV]

Also, once received by faith in Jesus Christ, no believer should ask for the holy spirit again unless they make the Father look evil as if He did not give the Holy spirit the first time for knocking at the door of Jesus Christ.

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

That would be ignoring Paul's warning about seeking to receive another Jesus or another spirit as if preaching another gospel.

2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

So don't let any apostate calling lead you astray by looking to receive the Holy Spirit by a sign for that is how spiritual fornication is committed..

Matthew 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

That's good too, but let's keep @makesends OP on topic...

 

[ChristB4us]

Very good...

When a Non Calvinist agrees the OT Saints weren't Indwelt, that says a lot...

Non-Calvinists may have to clarify themselves between the temporary indwelling of the Holy Spirit as that can be the only case for the O.T. saints, unlike the permanent indwelling Holy Spirit per the New Covenant for why we are warned not to grieve the Holy Spirit.

 

[ChristB4us]

That's good too, but let's keep @makesends OP on topic...

This topic has a tendency to include that faulty reasoning that because the disciples had the Holy Ghost several times before Pentecost, believers can also receive the Holy Spirit multiple times after Pentecost which is false and the apostasy that is currently thriving in churches today.

Indeed, they refer to various events in the Book of Acts as if His disciples are filled with the Holy Ghost meant that they were getting filled again rather than by how they were speaking or doing things by the Holy Ghost and not from themselves.

So it is important to know the difference between a temporary filling of the Holy Ghost in the O.T. and the permanent indwelling holy Ghost of the N.T. from Pentecost and onward.

Thank you for your service.

 

[ReverendRV]

Non-Calvinists may have to clarify themselves between the temporary indwelling of the Holy Spirit as that can be the only case for the O.T. saints, unlike the permanent indwelling Holy Spirit per the New Covenant for why we are warned not to grieve the Holy Spirit.

It probably deserves it's own Thread, but this difference between Regeneration in the Old and New Covenants probably has a lot to do with people denying Eternal Security...

 

[ReverendRV]

This topic has a tendency to include that faulty reasoning that because the disciples had the Holy Ghost several times before Pentecost, believers can also receive the Holy Spirit multiple times after Pentecost which is false and the apostasy that is currently thriving in churches today.

Indeed, they refer to various events in the Book of Acts as if His disciples are filled with the Holy Ghost meant that they were getting filled again rather than by how they were speaking or doing things by the Holy Ghost and not from themselves.

So it is important to know the difference between a temporary filling of the Holy Ghost in the O.T. and the permanent indwelling holy Ghost of the N.T. from Pentecost and onward.

Thank you for your service.

It seems you are trying harder than you used to; keep it up...

Whew, Thanksgiving Dinner was SO good

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Was the Spirit of God Indwelling the Redeemed before Pentecost?​

Of course. The Bible Records when the Holy Spirit entered the Disciples at John 20:22. The effect of that is recorded in Luke 24:45.

The Holy Spirit INDWELLING a person is what renders them "Born Again", and capable of understanding the Spiritual Reality of the Kingdom of God.

John 14:17 states that the Holy Spirit has always been WITH people, but in the future, He would be IN THEM. Consequently, The Holy Spirit wasn't in ANYBODY until after the Ressurection at John 20:22

Concerning Pentecost, Jesus used the word "ENDUED" (with power). Enduement is an external clothing.

So Biblically:

The Holy Spirit IN the believers = John 20:22

The Holy Spirit ON the believers = Acts 2:4

 

[Carbon]

Seems a lot of Calvinists/Reformed think the Holy Spirit wasn't a fixture until after Pentecost. That is, (if I understand those to whom I have spoken about it), that perhaps the Holy Spirit regenerated people, before Pentecost, but that he didn't indwell them until after Pentecost.

Interesting.
I tend to believe, the Holy Spirit not only regenerated people in the OT but also indewellt and remained with them.
Consider David, Psalm 51:
Have mercy on me, O God,
according to your steadfast love;
according to your abundant mercy
blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity,
and cleanse me from my sin!

I see the conviction of sin here. After all, how many of us would stay with God and even care about our sins of our own? Even as believers we have a hard time, Romans 7.

But I don't see how anything we do, neither faith nor obedience, is done apart from his continuous work in us.

Amen brother.

To me, it is endemic to the gospel —though not at all to say that one must understand this as part of the gospel— that Salvation, to include everything from creation and election to regeneration to glorification, is wholly the work of God. As most of you probably know, I reject the notion of synergism completely —even after sanctification— in that it suggests a work of God is made valid or complete only if we cooperate.

It is true that the Holy Spirit does as it will, and cannot be restrained. (John 3) But I don't think that what I say here posits restraint upon it.

However, (to my mind, at least), not only Regeneration, but also Sanctification (of the Old Testament believers as well as those from the New) IS from the continuing work of the Holy Spirit in us. Sanctification is not only after it came and left. It remains in the believer. Faith is endemic throughout, and that IS the work of the Spirit of God.

Not only faith but conviction of sin.

As I understand it, and, from my POV/ experience (not that personal experience is any basis for doctrine), the indwelling of the Spirit of God is the ONLY way any of us are of any Christian integrity. Regeneration does not change a person to make them suddenly of integrity in their thinking and their decisions, but the Spirit of God in us is what causes this "ability" continuously.

The endwelling Holy Spirit.

 

[Carbon]

Seems a lot of Calvinists/Reformed think the Holy Spirit wasn't a fixture until after Pentecost. That is, (if I understand those to whom I have spoken about it), that perhaps the Holy Spirit regenerated people, before Pentecost, but that he didn't indwell them until after Pentecost.

Let me try and explain my understanding concerning this.
Consider the OT church as a type, then the NT church as the fulfillment and the Spirit poured out on all people both "Gentile and Jew." All who are members of the church.

The members have always been saved (regenerated) in the same way. And as we read through the OT the saints are never left.

“And it shall come to pass afterward,
that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh;
your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
your old men shall dream dreams,
and your young men shall see visions. Joel 2:28.

Dosent the "all flesh" mean believers? Both Jew and gentile?


Also consider Jesus speaking with Nicodemus, in John 3.
Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things?

This was OT times, and Nicodemus should have known these things. He should know that we must be born of the Spirit.

Were'nt the OT people saved the same way the NT people are saved?

If the Spirit didn't dwell with OT believers, why would David pray this?
Cast me not away from your presence,
and take not your Holy Spirit from me.
Psalm 51:11.

When ever in the history of planet earth, was there an event like Pentecost where God poured out His Spirit on all flesh (Jew and Gentile?) After all, salvation is of the Jews.

My answer to the OP is yes, I believe so.

 

[prism]

Secondly, we're told when a spirit is cast out, it returns to find it's home cleansed and in order; but not Indwelt.

I've always taken this as unbelieving Israel and a warning what will happen (70AD) when she refuses her Messiah.

 

[ReverendRV]

I've always taken this as unbelieving Israel and a warning what will happen (70AD) when she refuses her Messiah.

I think Verses can have multiple meanings. Does the Verse have Eschatological meaning? Does the Verse have Evangelistic meaning? That's one of my favorite questions to ask of a Verse. Does the Verse have Soteriological meaning?

And so on, and so on...

In the Old Covenant, when an Evil spirit was cast out; who cleansed the body? It's the Holy Spirit. The Verse is primarily speaking of an individual, right?

Dispensational Eschatology takes a back seat to this...

 

[ReverendRV]

I think Verses can have multiple meanings. Does the Verse have Eschatological meaning? Does the Verse have Evangelistic meaning? That's one of my favorite questions to ask of a Verse. Does the Verse have Soteriological meaning?

Here is an example of me taking a Verse people teach Eschatologically, and using it for Evangelism, Atonement and Conversion...

Turning Swords into Plowshares ~ by ReverendRV * November 28

Isaiah 2:4 KJV; And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Jesus said ‘Blessed are the meek, For they shall inherit the earth; Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.’ ~ Spiritually speaking, no one begins in life as a peacemaker, but instead we begin as enemies of God. The Bible says that Stealing, Lying, and Cursing with God’s name are all Sin; and they’re only the tip of the Iceberg. Jesus also said ‘He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters’; so there is no neutrality. When one decides to repent and follow Jesus, they are no longer enemies of God. Former enemies know the way of weapons, but when they no longer need them; they can put a weapon to a better use…

Jesus said ‘Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature.’ There are times when Christians obey this, but it seems they can’t get through to some people. Jesus compares the heart of these people to hard, trodden ground; ‘When anyone hears the Message about the Kingdom and doesn’t understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the Seed sown along the path.’ This is when the ground of your heart needs to be tilled. ~ The Prophet Ezekiel describes it like this; ‘I will give you a New Heart and put a New Spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a Heart of flesh.’ God makes the ground of your heart good and then compares it to tilled soil. God uses the Law of God to penetrate your heart, Paul describes it like this; ‘For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.’ ~ A follower of Christ will lay down his carnal sword and pick up the ‘Sword which is the Word of God’; and use it as a plowshare to break ground in your rock hard heart…

This is what Saint Peter did at the first Christian Pentecost. By the power of God’s Holy Spirit, Peter rose and preached to the crowds. Everyone present knew of how God had been working the last few years in the land of Israel, and SURELY there were large crowds assembled to see if it would continue. There were people who would had seen the Miracles of Christ; giving sight to the blind, feeding the thousands and raising the dead. There would have been people there who saw the darkness the day Christ was Crucified, and when they heard Peter quote the prophecy of Joel, they would have known the darkness was predicted long ago. There would have been people who told Pontius Pilate to Crucify Jesus, and when Peter proclaimed this, ‘They were cut to the Heart’. Peter turned the Sword he used to cut off a guard's ear into a Plowshare, and turn the Spear that pierced Christ's heart into a pruning Hook; reaping a harvest that day of three thousand people!

You have reason to worry today if you have not turned to Jesus Christ as your Savior. Moses said, ‘But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not heed them, as the LORD had said.’ You are the one who trods down the path which is your heart, making it harder! We’re Saved by Grace through Faith in the risen Savior Jesus Christ, not by Works lest we boast. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God; read your Bible and go to Church. ~ Eternal life will now be able to grow in the circumcision which the Bible has cut into your Heart…

John 5:24 ESV; Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

 

[makesends]

Very good...

When a Non Calvinist agrees the OT Saints weren't Indwelt, that says a lot...

Not really. My problem is when a Calvinist says that regeneration changes a person such that they don't need the Holy Spirit anymore.

It's easy for a dispensationalist, for example, to say that salvation (and, I suppose, sanctification) was different under the Old Testament Gospel, and it is one of their statements I found hard to swallow even when I was one of them. It always bothered me that they seemed to think that there were two gospels.

I find no reason to believe that a changed, regenerated, person is ontologically different, in and of himself, from the way he was before regeneration, apart from the continuing indwelling Spirit of God.