Third Jewish Temple in Jerusalem

[CrowCross]

Perhaps but I am not discussing any of those digressions you keep trying to employ until you either tell me where scripture actually mentions another temple will be built in our future or you post an acknowledge there is no verse that actually mentions another temple being built in our future. When you come clean and openly acknowledge that belief is solely an inferential belief taught by Dispensational Premillennialism and NOT something scripture itself explicitly teaches anywhere in its many pages we'll talk.

Until then every posted attempt to answer the question I have asked simply proves an inability to have an intelligent, scripturally informed, cogent conversation because they are alternatively filled with avoidant digressions, shifting onuses, strawmen and ad hominem. I do not collaborate with fallacy.





Show me where the Bible actually mentions another temple will be built in our future or acknowledge there isn't one and your belief is inferential.

Why is it you keep running from the questions I ask you?

I have asked you if there is currently a temple in Israel. You skirt around the question.
I asked you if the temple mentioned in 2 Thes 2:4 was a "stone built" temple or a biological temple. You skirted around that question.

The questions aren't hard to answer but you obfuscate in your replies. Why?

I've even taken this approach....when did the 'events" mentioned in 2 Thes 2 happen? More beating around the bush. I suppose because you understand what is mentioned is still in the future....and there currently isn't a temple standing where the man of lawlessness can walk into take a seat and then declare himself to be God. Right now that would be impossible. BUT, the bible says it will happen. In order for that to happen there must be a temple....in other words the temple MUST be rebuilt.

You appear to be in a ...and can't think out of it.

 

[Josheb]

Why is it you keep running from the questions I ask you?

I've already answered that question. It is because you refuse to show parity. It happens in every single eschatological thread in which you post. I'd ban you if I were a mod.

 

[CrowCross]

I've already answered that question. It is because you refuse to show parity. It happens in every single eschatological thread in which you post. I'd ban you if I were a mod.

Ban or censor?

It seems like your pride is getting in the way of answerig post 241.

I'm simply trying to understsnd your form of "preterism" and orthodox millenialism. All you have done is claimed I'm wrong and you being the great Josheb are right.

Will you answer post 241? Can you answer post 241?

I'm giving you the perfect opportunity to put your escatology in one post.

 

[Josheb]

I'm giving you the perfect opportunity to put your escatology in one post.

That would be off topic. This op is about the prospect of a third Jewish temple, and you cannot provide a single verse in the Bible mentioning another temple will be built in our future, despite you claiming that is the case.


I will waste no more time trading posts with you under this op.

 

[miss managed]

I agree with @Fred and @Marty.

I also know the temple will be rebuilt...why? The Bible mentions a future temple.
As a Christian I can't speed up or slow down the timing of the rapture.

Prior to Israel becoming a nation again I could have read the bible and said...that event would happen. That event happened back in 1948.
We can read aout the fig tree...Matt 32-35:
We can also deduce that the generation mentioned there is this current generation.

Now, can christians give to the rebuilding of the temple with the hopes of it being rebuilt? Yup. Perhaps that's Gods way of funding the future event of the rebuilding of the temple to fulfill prophecy.

Where is a future temple prophesied? Can you quote the passage? I can quote one that shows it will not be rebuilt other than the Millennial temple.

 

[miss managed]

A temple for worship of the beast.
Why would any Christian want to give their support for such a thing??

It's only the Dispensationalist who claim that.

It all takes place in the courtyard of the Temple mount where an anti-Christ monument currently exist.

 

[CrowCross]

Where is a future temple prophesied? Can you quote the passage? I can quote one that shows it will not be rebuilt other than the Millennial temple.

2 Thes 2:4

 

[Arial]

2 Thes 2:4

It says nothing about a temple being built. You take you dispensational premillennialism into the passage and interpret it through what you added that is not there. As though those passages were a puzzle that we have to figure out and couldn't until the 21st century. And they meant nothing to the actual recipients of the letter. Are you trying to fool someone else, hoping you will have better luck this time?

 

[miss managed]

2 Thes 2:4

I've looked at 2 Thes. 2:4 in the lexicons as well as the interlinear and this is the way I believe it should be understood. Be aware that the word used for 'God' is the SAME word used for a false god or goddess. The word used for 'temple' is the same word that's used fora heathen temple or shrine. I also noticed from the interlinear that the KJV translators also dropped the word temple of (the) God. AND! The word God/god is used four times in verse 4. The interlinear shows GOD capitalized twice and twice it is not. Another major KJV blunder. One more interesting note:

The Greek interlinear uses the word God in verse 4 twice and god twice. Look at the interlinear link. When the word god is NOT capitalized, it shows it like this...n_ Acc Sg m. (noun, accusative case, singular, masculine) That means when god isn't capitalized,

Verse 4 is better interpreted like this,

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called god, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the heathen temple (Dome of the Rock) OF THE god (Allah), shewing himself that he is God.

The word God

The word God in this verse is theos. The primary meaning of that word is of any god or goddess. It is also used to describe the one true God.

The word Temple.
The word temple in 2 Thes. 2 is naos Strong's # 3485 and that word is the one used to imply a heathen temple.

1) used of the temple at Jerusalem,
2) any heathen temple or shrine.
This word is also used in the book of Acts to describe the temple that the idol stood in.
2 Thes. 2 is a unique passage. in it, we have the 'parousia' or Day of Christ. "The harpazo" or rapture. A falling away, rebellion or, "apostasia," the revelation of the man of sin, the workings of Satan, strong delusion and more. In it we learn more about the anti-Christ and his followers than any other New Testament passage. This small passage is definitely apocalyptic.

This word apostasy is unique since this is the only place it's translated 'falling away,' and a poor translation of the word. It comes from a word meaning a 'divorce' or to defect and to abandon something. The only other place it's used is in Acts 21:21 where it's translated\~forsake. There really isn't any other place we can go in the bible to understand it. Since the reformation, interpreters have missed the mark on this one. They've attributed this apostasy to the Church because of their unfavorable opinion of Rome.

The reformers were convinced that since Rome crucified Christ, destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple, and persecuted Christians during the reformation, they would also emerge as the end-time beast(s). We have been conditioned to believe that for so long that Christians don't even question it and have difficulty changing their minds about it.

 

[CrowCross]

It says nothing about a temple being built. You take you dispensational premillennialism into the passage and interpret it through what you added that is not there. As though those passages were a puzzle that we have to figure out and couldn't until the 21st century. And they meant nothing to the actual recipients of the letter. Are you trying to fool someone else, hoping you will have better luck this time?

Is there a temple standing there now?

 

[Arial]

Is there a temple standing there now?

Asked and answered.

 

[EarlyActs]

Again, you respond to a post as though nothing was ever said about the body of Christ being the temple. If you would actually deal with what people say when they correct your misrepresentations, you would not be able to do that. Which I suppose, would be a motive for not dealing with them or even acknowledging them. It is the Church, the corporate body of Christ, that the man of lawlessness, enters, if that is what Paul is referring to. Not every individual Christian.

So what would that look like in the world? Have you not noticed the many antichrists that have already, and have always been, invading the Church, tearing down the doctrinal walls and foundation that are contained in the NT? The ones laid by the apostles? Maybe you are looking for the wrong signs that would be pointing to the wrong thing.

We need to look at those things historically (man of lawlessness, many antichrists). To look for the things that happened in that generation as their meaning. There are still lessons, but nothing is so forced as a supposed correct interp of modern times.

What I don't get about the modern way of looking for exciting things to happen in Israel, is that those people read Rom 13 about government in a very passive way. Yet if you understand it correctly, we should be resisting tyrannical government.

 

[Josheb]

Yet if you understand it correctly, we should be resisting tyrannical government.

......or serve as lion fodder .

 

[Arial]

We need to look at those things historically (man of lawlessness, many antichrists). To look for the things that happened in that generation as their meaning. There are still lessons, but nothing is so forced as a supposed correct interp of modern times.

What I don't get about the modern way of looking for exciting things to happen in Israel, is that those people read Rom 13 about government in a very passive way. Yet if you understand it correctly, we should be resisting tyrannical government.

What gets me, along with that passive view of Romans 13, is the keeping of one's eyes on Israel to measure the closeness of Christ's return, and to verify/interpret the word of God. And the antichrists that have infiltrated the church go unrecognized and accepted (not everywhere but it is systemic). The great apostasy that is going on even now, and which in many cases some are a part of, goes unnoticed.

This apostacy is compromising with the world for fear of retaliation. Fear of being labeled a bigot, or unloving, or giving Christianity a bad name---wanting to be liked, love of money. It ceases even teaching the gospel, does not look to the word and commands of God, but instead to the culture, to determine what is right and what is wrong. Already, there are those who do not have the courage of Polycarp and the other Martyrs, to stand their ground.

And even those individuals who are not a part of this apostacy, but are looking to Israel as the signpost of, not so much Christ returning, but their escape; and their joy focused on the restoration and redemption of national Israel, blindly support everything Israel does. As though Israel were the Savior. As though they can never make mistakes or do any wrong.

They rejoice in what is presented as Israel making plans to rebuild a temple, and are raising red heifers, preparing for animal sacrifices, and the restored priesthood of Aaron. Forgetting that Israel was judged, and all that destroyed by God sending Rome to do it----just as he sent Assyria to judge the northern kingdom all those centuries ago. Forgetting that that was the end of the OC as the NC with one high priest forever, one final sacrifice forever, the sacrifice of Christ's body, began. And even before that, as Jesus breathed his last, that curtain separating the people from the Holy of Holies was rent in two. All this is laid aside by the "sigh watchers" for the glory of Israel.

 

[EarlyActs]

What gets me, along with that passive view of Romans 13, is the keeping of one's eyes on Israel to measure the closeness of Christ's return, and to verify/interpret the word of God. And the antichrists that have infiltrated the church go unrecognized and accepted (not everywhere but it is systemic). The great apostasy that is going on even now, and which in many cases some are a part of, goes unnoticed.

This apostacy is compromising with the world for fear of retaliation. Fear of being labeled a bigot, or unloving, or giving Christianity a bad name---wanting to be liked, love of money. It ceases even teaching the gospel, does not look to the word and commands of God, but instead to the culture, to determine what is right and what is wrong. Already, there are those who do not have the courage of Polycarp and the other Martyrs, to stand their ground.

And even those individuals who are not a part of this apostacy, but are looking to Israel as the signpost of, not so much Christ returning, but their escape; and their joy focused on the restoration and redemption of national Israel, blindly support everything Israel does. As though Israel were the Savior. As though they can never make mistakes or do any wrong.

They rejoice in what is presented as Israel making plans to rebuild a temple, and are raising red heifers, preparing for animal sacrifices, and the restored priesthood of Aaron. Forgetting that Israel was judged, and all that destroyed by God sending Rome to do it----just as he sent Assyria to judge the northern kingdom all those centuries ago. Forgetting that that was the end of the OC as the NC with one high priest forever, one final sacrifice forever, the sacrifice of Christ's body, began. And even before that, as Jesus breathed his last, that curtain separating the people from the Holy of Holies was rent in two. All this is laid aside by the "sign watchers" all for the glory of Israel.

Very well put, Arial! Keep it up.

 

[CrowCross]

Asked and answered.

Was it you who said the the temple is standing....and the temple is the bodies of the christians indwelled with the Holt Spirit... NOT a physical brick and mortar building?

 

[CrowCross]

And even those individuals who are not a part of this apostacy, but are looking to Israel as the signpost of, not so much Christ returning, but their escape; and their joy focused on the restoration and redemption of national Israel, blindly support everything Israel does. As though Israel were the Savior. As though they can never make mistakes or do any wrong.

As though Israel were the Savior.....Really?

....but are looking to Israel as the signpost of, not so much Christ returning,......There is more than one signpost. Israel is but one of them.

 

[Arial]

As though Israel were the Savior.....Really?

I am not saying they believe Israel is the Savior. I am saying that treat Israel as though it were. All their doctrine and eschatology is centered on who Israel is, not the Redeemer.

....but are looking to Israel as the signpost of, not so much Christ returning,......There is more than one signpost. Israel is but one of them.

All of which are outside the Bible, not from within it. It uses what is outside to interpret what is inside.

 

[Arial]

Was it you who said the the temple is standing....and the temple is the bodies of the christians indwelled with the Holt Spirit... NOT a physical brick and mortar building?

You should have paid attention to what I said---which was primarily quoted scriptures----when I said it. And addressed it them. I am not going back over what I said just so you have something to do.

 

[CrowCross]

I am not saying they believe Israel is the Savior. I am saying that treat Israel as though it were. All their doctrine and eschatology is centered on who Israel is, not the Redeemer.

Pretty much doubt that. Now, you may find a "group" with that opinion...but it's the extreme and not the rule.

All of which are outside the Bible, not from within it. It uses what is outside to interpret what is inside.

Jesus compared the signs to watching the weather...

Jesus speaks of the end time signs...John even told us what the end times would be like...