Third Jewish Temple in Jerusalem

[XrzrX]

You can say whatever you need to say...but, Israel became a nation....again....in 1948. It happened.

Did it really? Non Semitic people, again descendants of the Huns.. , Talmudic coverts from the 8th Century?
A Synagogue of Satan, that say they are "Jews" but do lie?

Now, does that mean they will be a Godly nation? No. A christian nation? Once again no.

And when they lay waste churches, the oldest ones in history.. that inexplicably the Ottomans allowed to stand for 1500 years, yet "Israel" doesn't.. this is who you think God ordains you to "support"? That say Jesus is "boiling in excrement in Hell for eternity?". That generate widows and orphans? 10s of thousands of children slaughtered?
Again, I hate this subject because it's a pit of filth and Hell... yet, it make one the "bigot" to even recognize it.
It's a Deception like none has ever been seen in Christian history, and causes believers to literally call evil "good", and good "evil".
I had the same exact belief as you for years, but once you see.. you can't unsee, and then you are fully culpable.
Take a long hard look brother.. and that's all I'll say.

I see the beast system current being assembled...everything from quantum computers to Musks satellite grid to AI to digital currency and on and on.
The Jews could start building the temple tomorrow...

Distraction. While many Christians ignore the absolute horror in front of our face, and even yet cheer it on.
It's wickedness.

We are curently in the birth pangs.

Birth pangs are when blood and water flowed from Jesus' side... and the "water broke" for the New Covenant.

 

[XrzrX]

And that Baby was weened from the breast in 70 AD.

 

[Arial]

What you are telling me is that there will be a time..or perhaps we're at it now, when the antichrist will enter into the temple of the humans that make up Christ church and declare himself to be God.

No. That is not what I am saying. I have explained what I mean at least twice. There will be false teachers and preachers in the churches where Christians congregate and teach deceptions. (Is there a reason why you can't seem to grasp what I am saying?) They were doing it even in the NT. Judaizers teaching salvation was not by Jesus alone but by Jesus plus the traditions and laws of Covenant Israel. There were those teaching that Jesus only appeared to die, or that he only appeared to be human, that he was not really flesh and blood. There were those who taught that only a select elite were given secret knowledge.

There were those who were incorporating pagan rituals and displays of ecstasy into the church. There were those who taught that Jesus had already returned. Look at all the false teachings rampant in congregations today! And in those claiming to be Christian churches such as LDS, JW, Unitarianism. That is the spirit of anti-Christ. It is the dragon's war against Christ's church. The beast is a counterfeit Christ and the second beast is a counterfeit Holy Spirit. The dragon is a counterfeit god. A counterfeit Trinity.

The temple Paul was speaking of is quite likely the one that was standing in Paul's day. It was still standing when that letter was written. Those who he wrote the letter to (Look at the context) were disturbed because they had been told that Jesus had already returned. What did Paul tell them to assure them that that was not the case? You assume because of the language that Paul is giving "signs of His coming" as just around the corner and read into it, somehow, a third temple and pre-trib rapture into Paul's words. Such a thing would be entirely alien and disconnected to the intent of the rest of the letter. But that is not what Paul is doing.

Step into the shoes of the first recipients of that letter. The letter itself reveals that they were suffering and persecuted, and this too confused and weakened their resolve if the Lord had already returned. Read it with out chapters and without verse numbers, just as it was for those recipients, all the way through. Pretend you are one of them, not someone in 2025 who has had this verse apart from its context, interpreted for them and fixed in their mind that it is saying one thing. Pretend you are one of them, sitting on a grassy knoll with fellow believers, or in the house of a brother on a Sunday morning, hearing the words of the letter for the very first time.

What do you hear? (P.S. When they heard the words "the temple" the only temple they would have thought of was the one standing in Jerusalem that very day.)

 

[Josheb]

You can call it whatever you want....the bible mentions a temple that the antichrist enters into and declares himself as God.

So you say but I have asked where that is mentioned and what you mean when using the word "mentions" and have yet to read an answer to the questions asked. I now wonder how many times I will have to ask and whether an answer will ever be posted because in each of the last half-dozen ops on eschatology the exchange with you ends because very simple, valid, relevant inquiries never get answered.


Where does the Bible mention another temple will be built?

When you use the word "mention," do you mean the Bible...

1. explicitly states a temple of stone will be built by humans sometime during or after the 21st century,
2. exegetically infers a temple of stone will be built by humans sometime during or after the 21st century,
3. is read to through a hermeneutic that infers a temple of stone will be built by humans sometime during or after the 21st century?

Which is it?

This event is AFTER the rapture.

That is not an answer to any of my questions.

Where does the Bible mention another temple will be built?

When you use the word "mention," do you mean the Bible...

1. explicitly states a temple of stone will be built by humans sometime during or after the 21st century,
2. exegetically infers a temple of stone will be built by humans sometime during or after the 21st century,
3. is read to through a hermeneutic that infers a temple of stone will be built by humans sometime during or after the 21st century?

Which is it?

 

[Josheb]

Great response, and notice the conflation of both Solomon, and Jesus in the same prophey... but one fulfills a descendant that 'commits iniquity" which Solomon did, and Jesus didn't. Jesus even references it "The Queen of the South will rise up with this generation at the judgment and will condemn it, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, something greater than Solomon is here." Matt 12:42, He cites Sheba, who brought Solomon 666 talents of gold. It also speaks to the 'parallel' symmetry, of 2 different 'versions' of the same 'Milennial' prophesy, where it seems to indicate IF Israel had turned from wickedness they WOULD have had the different version of both Messiah, and Kingdom. The "Conquering" Messiah, in the way they expected.. that set up an earthly Kingdom. But, they didn't and this parallel is highlighted in the fact that Paul cites (in Rom 11:26)
“THE DELIVERER WILL COME "FROM" ZION,
HE WILL "REMOVE" UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB.”
“AND THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM,
WHEN I "TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS.”

Which is the inverse of (Isa 59:20)
“The Redeemer will come "TO" Zion,
to those in Jacob who TURN FROM transgression,” declares the LORD."

It's a massive statement.
One a "Redeemer", that comes "to them".. to conquer for and establish them as a Kingdom. (rejected)
The other a "Deliverer", that "came out from them" and had to save them because they didn't turn from iniquity and therefore had to "remove it from them".

And this is where 'Millennialism' trips so many up.
They are reading prophecy that was Conditional and was rejected.. and became fulfilled in Jesus.

Yes, but let's not get far afield of the op. The op is about some supposed third Jewish temple and it has been claimed the Bible "mentions" another temple will be built in the future, our future, but the one making that claim has yet to provide any proof for that claim AND proof addressing all that I (and you) just posted. Whatever verse is posted (assuming at least one is eventually forthcoming) it will have to address and reconcile with all that the non-futurists have posted. It can't be the mere mention of some verse absent commentary addressing all else that scripture states on the matter.

But I bet that is what we will see posted.


What if all God's "mentions" of a temple were supposed to be read as references to the Messiah and not references to a brick building?

 

[XrzrX]

Yes, but let's not get far afield of the op. The op is about some supposed third Jewish temple and it has been claimed the Bible "mentions" another temple will be built in the future, our future, but the one making that claim has yet to provide any proof for that claim AND proof addressing all that I (and you) just posted. Whatever verse is posted (assuming at least one is eventually forthcoming) it will have to address and reconcile with all that the non-futurists have posted. It can't be the mere mention of some verse absent commentary addressing all else that scripture states on the matter.

But I bet that is what we will see posted.


What if all God's "mentions" of a temple were supposed to be read as references to the Messiah and not references to a brick building?

Yep, I can actually answer it for him.. because I used to have the same interpretation. Not gonna dig out all the verses, but basically, it's a cumulation of Millennial verses (some Ezekiel, some Rev etc) that illustrate a physical Temple in the Millenium. Dispensationalists use this specifically to cite "we rule in heaven, Jews rule the nations on earth" or some variation on a litany of similar insanity. Hebrew Roots cults are a breath away from hyper Dispies/Christian Zionists) on this. So yeah, that's why what I mentioned about the different "versions" of Messiah, and how Paul literally alters the OT prophesy because it speaks to that Dispie error.

 

[Josheb]

Yep, I can actually answer it for him.. because I used to have the same interpretation. Not gonna dig out all the verses, but basically, it's a cumulation of Millennial verses (some Ezekiel, some Rev etc) that illustrate a physical Temple in the Millenium. Dispensationalists use this specifically to cite "we rule in heaven, Jews rule the nations on earth" or some variation on a litany of similar insanity. Hebrew Roots cults are a breath away from hyper Dispies/Christian Zionists) on this. So yeah, that's why what I mentioned about the different "versions" of Messiah, and how Paul literally alters the OT prophesy because it speaks to that Dispie error.

Yes, I too was once a Dispy.

There is no verse in the Bible that mentions a temple in the 21st century or thereafter. There are verse that Dispies interpret to say such a temple is mentioned but that is not what any of those verses actually states. It's that difference between what scripture states and what it is made to say that prompted the inquiries regarding what the word "mentions" means. It is the silence of scripture that prompted the request for scripture.

The wise, honest, and forthcoming Dispy answers, "There isn't a verse that actually states such a temple will be built. That belief is something we infer based on our reading of scripture as Dispensationalists." That answer is not only honest and forthcoming, it moves the conversation forward because we can then build from consensus (scripture does not state anything about a future temple) and discuss why the Dispensationalist prefers an inferential reading of scripture, how they draw those inferences, and why their inferences are correct (as opposed to others' inferences). Unblessedly, that conversation rarely happens. It could, but it does not.

 

[CrowCross]

. There will be false teachers and preachers in the churches where Christians congregate and teach deceptions. (Is there a reason why you can't seem to grasp what I am saying?)

So, if I don't agree with you...I'm following false teachers?

 

[XrzrX]

So, if I don't agree with you...I'm following false teachers?

I think she is referencing the discussion you 2 were having about "antichrists in the Church", or in other words deceivers in the Church.. as an alternate view on how you were interpreting that prophesy. Not directed at you.

 

[Arial]

So, if I don't agree with you...I'm following false teachers?

Not everything is about you. Address the posts.

 

[Arial]

So, if I don't agree with you...I'm following false teachers?

Address the posts.
RE: the temple mentioned in 2 Thess 2:1-12.

When the Thessalonians Paul is writing to, hear this letter, and he mentions the temple; what do you think the Thessalonians understood the temple to be? What temple would they assume he was talking about?

Would that be something that is relevant in interpreting Paul's words?

 

[Josheb]

So, if I don't agree with you...I'm following false teachers?

No, you're following false teachers because you're following false teachers.

1. These teachers haven't made a correct prediction since modern futurism was invented 200 years ago (they all have a 100% fail rate).
2. The presuppositions upon which their modern futurism is built contradicts scripture in many places and much of it is invented.
3. They follow a man-made hermeneutic that violates a number of basic long held and well-established exegetical principles.
4. They use scripture selectively, often adding to and subtracting from it.
5. They claim to take a literal approach to scripture but more often than not the reading/teaching is inference-laden, not literal.
6. If they actually did read whole scripture literally then their modern futurism could not logically) or exegetically) be sustained.
7. No one among these teachers' peers within futurism ever holds them accountable for anything taught in error (no in-house accountability).
8. No one among these teacher's ever responds to external correction or attempts at accountability.
9. They live their life in open contradiction to what they teach, eschatologically speaking.
10. Some of them teach solely for profit.

Any one of those conditions would be sufficient to recognize them as false teachers but the first is absolutely fatal to any claim of veracity. .

 

[CrowCross]

I think she is referencing the discussion you 2 were having about "antichrists in the Church", or in other words deceivers in the Church.. as an alternate view on how you were interpreting that prophesy. Not directed at you.

I understand her thinking....
But,
The bible tells us the spirit of anti-christ is here and has been here. (1 John 2:18 and other verses) The bible tells us the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction (perdition) will enter into the rebuilt temple and declare himself to be God. (2nd Thes 2:3)

What @Arial is presenting doesn't match that description.

 

[CrowCross]

Address the posts.
RE: the temple mentioned in 2 Thess 2:1-12.

When the Thessalonians Paul is writing to, hear this letter, and he mentions the temple; what do you think the Thessalonians understood the temple to be? What temple would they assume he was talking about?

In a nut shell....

Paul was speaking about an event.

Jesus spoke of the event....“But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not to be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. (Mark 13:14)
Why would Jesus tell them to flee to the mountains because of false prophets?

That event will occur after the antichrist has gained a false trust..peace treaty...Danial 9:27

Would that be something that is relevant in interpreting Paul's words?

 

[CrowCross]

No, you're following false teachers because you're following false teachers.

1. These teachers haven't made a correct prediction since modern futurism was invented 200 years ago (they all have a 100% fail rate).

There really isn't a whole lot to what you ave claimed In fact back in the day prior to Israel becomng a nation...Jews returning...preachers were asked, what's next...they said Israel has to become a nation again. They were laughed at much like you are laughing. Then it happened in 1948.

1. The presuppositions upon which their modern futurism is built contradicts scripture in many places and much of it is invented.

So you claim but have not demonstrated.

1. They follow a man-made hermeneutic that violates a number of basic long held and well-established exegetical principles.

Once again.....So you claim but have not demonstrated.

1. They use scripture selectively, often adding to and subtracting from it.

Once again.....So you claim but have not demonstrated.

1. They claim to take a literal approach to scripture but more often than not the reading/teaching is inference-laden, not literal.

A literal approach should be taken unless the scripture presents it as "symbolic"
Did Jesus literally walk on water and literally rise from the dead?
Could the events in Rev 8 be literally caused by the April 13th 2029 (Apophis) future event? When has Rev. 8 symbolically happened?

As for inferance...the trinity is mentioned in the bible but can easily be inferred.
The bible never has Jesus saying "I am God"...but the bible strongly with out doubt infers this.

1. If they actually did read whole scripture literally then their modern futurism could not logically) or exegetically) be sustained.
2. No one among these teachers' peers within futurism ever holds them accountable for anything taught in error (no in-house accountability).
3. No one among these teacher's ever responds to external correction or attempts at accountability.
4. They live their life in open contradiction to what they teach, eschatologically speaking.

All unsupported accusations.

1. Some of them teach solely for profit.

That can be true in certain cases...for both camps.

Any one of those conditions would be sufficient to recognize them as false teachers but the first is absolutely fatal to any claim of veracity. .

Your conclusions and conditions are nothng more than sheer speculation. This has been demonstrated to you to the point of ad-nauseam.

 

[Arial]

In a nut shell....

Paul was speaking about an event.

That is NOT what I asked you. I asked you what the Thessalonians would have thought (NOT YOU) Paul meant when he mentioned the temple and what he said about it? The temple, Cross. What did the "temple" mean to THEM. Can you answer the question now instead of deflecting and creating diversions?

Jesus spoke of the event....“But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not to be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. (Mark 13:14)
Why would Jesus tell them to flee to the mountains because of false prophets?

He wasn't telling them to flee to the mountains because of false prophets. I never conflated this passage and the one in 2 Thess as you do. Jesus was speaking about the destruction of the temple in 70 a.d. and the desecration of Jerusalem. History bears that out.
The Destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD - Bible History Online - Bible History

That event will occur after the antichrist has gained a false trust..peace treaty...Danial 9:27

So you say, but that is only true if Dan 7 is interpreted from the presuppositional lens you use. Despite what you think, it is not the only way. There is another way that doesn't interpret the covenant maker as being the anit-Christ. A very serious misinterpretation.

Dan 9:27

"He shall make a strong covenant with many for one week."
He is Christ, not the antichrist.
The strong covenant is the New Covenant established by Christ in
His death and resurrection.
With many refers to the elect, the believing remnant of Israel and the
Gentiles who come to faith.
"For half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering"
The middle of the 70th week correspond to Christ's crucifixion,
which made all OC sacrifices obsolete.
Ending of sacrifice is a theological even not a political or military
one (HEB 10:1-14).
"On the wing of abominations shall come one who makes
desolate"
Abominations and desolation refer to judgement, particularly the
destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 a.d. by the Romans.
An echo of Matt 24:15 ("the abomination of desolation spoken of by
the Prophet Daniel") fulfilled in the fall of Jerusalem.
"Until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator"
The desolator (Rome, or any anti-Christian force) will not succeed
forever. Their end is determined by God. This is the already/ not yet
tension. The kingdom has been inaugurated by Christ but awaits final
judgement.

 

[Arial]

As for inferance...the trinity is mentioned in the bible but can easily be inferred.

It can be seen, not inferred.

 

[CrowCross]

That is NOT what I asked you. I asked you what the Thessalonians would have thought (NOT YOU) Paul meant when he mentioned the temple and what he said about it? The temple, Cross. What did the "temple" mean to THEM. Can you answer the question now instead of deflecting and creating diversions?

At that time there was a false letter circulating that told them they were in the tribulation and the rapture had happened and they mssed it and the antichrist himself was here.....Paul was telling them, not yet.

 

[XrzrX]

There really isn't a whole lot to what you ave claimed In fact back in the day prior to Israel becomng a nation...Jews returning...preachers were asked, what's next...they said Israel has to become a nation again. They were laughed at much like you are laughing. Then it happened in 1948.

This really is a root to much of your belief, but you won't address the things I've mentioned. Do you see any precedence in the Bible of believers being called to "support" in any way, much less Actively support wickedness? We aren't "jihadists", we aren't called to violate biblical integrity in service of some 'greater good'. God uses the wicked that way.. is that who you believe we are?

So you claim but have not demonstrated.

Once again.....So you claim but have not demonstrated.

Once again.....So you claim but have not demonstrated.

A literal approach should be taken unless the scripture presents it as "symbolic"
Did Jesus literally walk on water and literally rise from the dead?
Could the events in Rev 8 be literally caused by the April 13th 2029 (Apophis) future event? When has Rev. 8 symbolically happened?

As for inferance...the trinity is mentioned in the bible but can easily be inferred.
The bible never has Jesus saying "I am God"...but the bible strongly with out doubt infers this.

It doesn't 'infer it', the OT states verbatim that Yahweh will be the Messiah.. so the converse isn't an inference, it's a fact that Jesus would be Yahweh.

All unsupported accusations.

That can be true in certain cases...for both camps.

Your conclusions and conditions are nothng more than sheer speculation. This has been demonstrated to you to the point of ad-nauseam.

 

[CrowCross]

It can be seen, not inferred.

Call it what you. want. The pre-trib rapture can be seen in the bible.