Theology Question For Calvinist/Reformed Members

[ReverendRV]

Are y'all having fun

 

[Carbon]

Are the elect created to belong to Christ and is the choosing that God does choosing to create those specific persons for Christ, for His glory, and as His inheritance?

Considering scripture and the COG. Id say so

 

[Carbon]

Considering scripture and the COG. Id say so

@Arial especially since the cog was made between the Father and the Son. Not only are the elect chosen in him, he is their head. But Christ took on the burden for us. It is literally impossible that Christ could have failed.

This plan was drawn from all eternity and was between the Trinity. According to the eternal purpose in Christ Jesus, Eph 3:3.

For we are God’s fellow workers. You are God’s field, God’s building. 1 Cor 3:9.
We are God’s building, being built by God Himself.
And all the Trinity is at work in this building.

The Father chose the objects of mercy, “and gave them to the son to be redeemed, ; the son purchased redemption for them, and the Holy Spirit applies the purchased redemption unto them.

 

[Arial]

@Arial especially since the cog was made between the Father and the Son. Not only are the elect chosen in him, he is their head. But Christ took on the burden for us. It is literally impossible that Christ could have failed.

This plan was drawn from all eternity and was between the Trinity. According to the eternal purpose in Christ Jesus, Eph 3:3.

For we are God’s fellow workers. You are God’s field, God’s building. 1 Cor 3:9.
We are God’s building, being built by God Himself.
And all the Trinity is at work in this building.

The Father chose the objects of mercy, “and gave them to the son to be redeemed, ; the son purchased redemption for them, and the Holy Spirit applies the purchased redemption unto them.

I agree 100%.

 

[makesends]

@Arial especially since the cog was made between the Father and the Son. Not only are the elect chosen in him, he is their head. But Christ took on the burden for us. It is literally impossible that Christ could have failed.

This plan was drawn from all eternity and was between the Trinity. According to the eternal purpose in Christ Jesus, Eph 3:3.

For we are God’s fellow workers. You are God’s field, God’s building. 1 Cor 3:9.
We are God’s building, being built by God Himself.
And all the Trinity is at work in this building.

The Father chose the objects of mercy, “and gave them to the son to be redeemed, ; the son purchased redemption for them, and the Holy Spirit applies the purchased redemption unto them.

I love how all these things God does, to include the fact that Christ did not fail and the fact that the elect will surely be saved, are not done according so some 'automatic' way the self-determinist claims that the Reformed/Calvinist believes, but according to the mere fact that God will accomplish all that he set out to do. He uses the most mundane, 'skate-close-to-the-edge-of-disaster' ways of doing so, that the self-determinist claims it is actually possible that the elect can lose his salvation, and that Christ could have failed. In fact, though, this is HOW God does it, through these very means, on purpose, which proves election and proves the deity of Christ.

 

[Eleanor]

I love how all these things God does, to include the fact that Christ did not fail and the fact that the elect will surely be saved, are not done according so some 'automatic' way the self-determinist claims that the Reformed/Calvinist believes, but according to the mere fact that God will accomplish all that he set out to do. He uses the most mundane, 'skate-close-to-the-edge-of-disaster' ways of doing so, that the self-determinist claims it is actually possible that the elect can lose his salvation, and that Christ could have failed. In fact, though, this is HOW God does it, through these very means, on purpose, which proves election and proves the deity of Christ.

Hey!

 

[ReverendRV]

Jesus is LORD!

 

[makesends]

Are y'all having fun

Considering scripture and the COG. Id say so

Seems I need to read more carefully, more comprehensively...

 

[Mr GLee]

@Arial especially since the cog was made between the Father and the Son. Not only are the elect chosen in him, he is their head. But Christ took on the burden for us. It is literally impossible that Christ could have failed.

This plan was drawn from all eternity and was between the Trinity. According to the eternal purpose in Christ Jesus, Eph 3:3.

For we are God’s fellow workers. You are God’s field, God’s building. 1 Cor 3:9.
We are God’s building, being built by God Himself.
And all the Trinity is at work in this building.

The Father chose the objects of mercy, “and gave them to the son to be redeemed, ; the son purchased redemption for them, and the Holy Spirit applies the purchased redemption unto them.

The Son demonstrated the invisible work of the Father. Not of his own self.

 

[Mr GLee]

Jesus is LORD!

Jesus the Christ the Holy Spirit of God poured out his eternal Spirit in jeapordy of His own Spirit life on the flesh of dying Jesus, The Son of man Jesus being born again became a son of God (Christian)

When Jesus our brother in the Lord said dying mankind must be born agin he was not excluding himself. Jesus the son of man is one one many lords .Bot not Lord of lords, King of kings, His flesh profited for nothing

God is not a Jewish man as King of earthy kings, Lord of earthly lords

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words (of the father) that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Look to the unseen eternal things of Holy Spirit that worked in the Son of man Jesus . Not that seen temporal dying corrupted flesh and blood. It returns to the dust.

 

[makesends]

Jesus the Christ the Holy Spirit of God poured out his eternal Spirit in jeapordy of His own Spirit life on the flesh of dying Jesus, The Son of man Jesus being born again became a son of God (Christian)

When Jesus our brother in the Lord said dying mankind must be born agin he was not excluding himself. Jesus the son of man is one one many lords .Bot not Lord of lords, King of kings, His flesh profited for nothing

God is not a Jewish man as King of earthy kings, Lord of earthly lords

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words (of the father) that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Look to the unseen eternal things of Holy Spirit that worked in the Son of man Jesus . Not that seen temporal dying corrupted flesh and blood. It returns to the dust.

What I have emphasized of what you wrote above, is as wrong as wrong gets. I only hope I'm misunderstanding something you are not stating well in English, or it is your hyperbole concerning the flesh.

Revelation 19 is about Christ, John 1's 'Word' of God, whose robe is dipped in blood:

11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:

King of kings and Lord of lords.

Are you denying that Jesus is God?

 

[Mr GLee]

What I have emphasized of what you wrote above, is as wrong as wrong gets. I only hope I'm misunderstanding something you are not stating well in English, or it is your.

Revelation 19 is about Christ, John 1's 'Word' of God, whose robe is dipped in blood:

11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:

King of kings and Lord of lords.

Are you denying that Jesus is God?

Revelations 9 a interesting parable

I am hoping to discern the difference between the temporal things of flesh seen and the eternal spiritual not seen ,concerning the things of the spiritual invisible . The spiritual comparing to the spiritual unseen understanding of the parables or called faith to faith They conceal the gospel to dying mankind

Jesus the Christ anointing teacher as God. I do not deny .Jesus the Son man as if he was the Christ the one good teaches master I do deny

'Word' of God, whose robe is dipped in blood:????? A word does not have a robe dipped in blood .

His name is not "dipped in blood", Blood represents the unseen work of the Holy Spirit pouring out his Spirit life on dying flesh .
You could say two savior (Jesus') working as one. The one not seen our holy father working in the son of man Jesus seen in order to to demonstrate the whole world the power of the father poring out his spirt life

 

[makesends]

Revelations 9 a interesting parable

I am hoping to discern the difference between the temporal things of flesh seen and the eternal spiritual not seen ,concerning the things of the spiritual invisible . The spiritual comparing to the spiritual unseen understanding of the parables or called faith to faith They conceal the gospel to dying mankind

Jesus the Christ anointing teacher as God. I do not deny .Jesus the Son man as if he was the Christ the one good teaches master I do deny

'Word' of God, whose robe is dipped in blood:????? A word does not have a robe dipped in blood .

His name is not "dipped in blood", Blood represents the unseen work of the Holy Spirit pouring out his Spirit life on dying flesh .
You could say two savior (Jesus') working as one. The one not seen our holy father working in the son of man Jesus seen in order to to demonstrate the whole world the power of the father poring out his spirt life

Huh?

 

[His clay]

Are the elect created to belong to Christ and is the choosing that God does choosing to create those specific persons for Christ, for His glory, and as His inheritance? That would certainly change one's perspective from redemption being man centered to being God centered. I have been trying to work through this to see if it is compatible with the things that we do know doctrinally and keep hitting possible snags---and then my mind wanders off to other things less taxing. I do not want to lean on my own understanding and call it good. And I don't want to singularly arrive at a doctrine and consider it truth.

I am asking for help in working through this, from fellow Reformed, well versed in scripture, theology, and doctrine, of which there are many on this forum.

So I just noticed this. I don't know why I did not see it before, but I'll think about it and get back to you.

 

[Mr GLee]

Huh?

Without parables Christ the Holy Spirit of God spoke not. And especially in a last chapter(Revelation) called a book that needs the whole Bible to help us understand the mysteries of faith the unseen eternal thing of God not seen

No signs were given to wonder after. Signs are for the unredeemed. They have no insight coming from the word of God it is found when rightly dividing the parables

Revelation 9 is a interesting parable. The historical things temporally seen mixed with the unseen eternal That chapter is loaded with metaphors the signified understanding.

Many that seek after signs and literalize the spiritual understanding hid from the lost

Revelation 9King James Version9 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions. And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle. And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months. And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon

A picture of God opening the two books with the gospel key at the end of the ages. All whose names was not writen in the lambs book of life from the 6 days he did work. There names will be a erased form the book of life all created being , it will be like they were born begin with .

 

[GeneZ]

Are the elect created to belong to Christ and is the choosing that God does choosing to create those specific persons for Christ, for His glory, and as His inheritance? That would certainly change one's perspective from redemption being man centered to being God centered. I have been trying to work through this to see if it is compatible with the things that we do know doctrinally and keep hitting possible snags---and then my mind wanders off to other things less taxing. I do not want to lean on my own understanding and call it good. And I don't want to singularly arrive at a doctrine and consider it truth.

I am asking for help in working through this, from fellow Reformed, well versed in scripture, theology, and doctrine, of which there are many on this forum.

The key to this Divine Quagmire is knowing how God, who is omniscient, could have had each persons soul *initially* created without knowing how that person would choose if given the opportunity to reject His authority.

That is the key.
And, that key I believe has been revealed to us in Scripture.
We just do not know its the key until we are shown.

It all centers around how the one we now call "Jesus" having been eternally existing as God...
Was able to make Himself become as a man. (Philippians 2:6-8)

This will require patience.. remaining calm... and a willingness to surrender ones denominational anger-guns at the door
before sitting at the table.

.................

 

[Eleanor]

The key to this Divine Quagmire is knowing how God, who is omniscient, could have had each persons soul *initially* created without knowing how that person would choose if given the opportunity to reject His authority.

Your God is too small.
God "chose" that all would have a fallen nature, preferring self-will over God's will, and none able to prefer God's will by their own power.
We are by nature, objects of wrath (Eph 2:3), by birth, sinners (Gal 2:15).
God chose to give some the power to choose him, but not all.

That is the key.
And, that key I believe has been revealed to us in Scripture.
We just do not know its the key until we are shown.

It all centers around how the one we now call "Jesus" having been eternally existing as God...
Was able to make Himself become as a man. (Philippians 2:6-8)

This will require patience.. remaining calm... and a willingness to surrender ones denominational anger-guns at the door
before sitting at the table.

.................

 

[Mr GLee]

The key to this Divine Quagmire is knowing how God, who is omniscient, could have had each persons soul *initially* created without knowing how that person would choose if given the opportunity to reject His authority.

That is the key.
And, that key I believe has been revealed to us in Scripture.
We just do not know its the key until we are shown.

It all centers around how the one we now call "Jesus" having been eternally existing as God...
Was able to make Himself become as a man. (Philippians 2:6-8)

This will require patience.. remaining calm... and a willingness to surrender ones denominational anger-guns at the door
before sitting at the table.
.................

Yes Jesus our savior. Christ the anointing Holy Spirt of the Father not seen.

I would offer not after the Son of man, Jesus (dying flesh and blood) Again after Christ the Father or husband of the bride ..

I think the key is both . Power to understand and perform it to the good pleasure of Christ Jesus the Son of man did the will of the Father with delight some murmur.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputing's:

Its the Kimd of food (daily bread or hidden manna ) that disciples knew not of .

John 4:33-35King James Version33 Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

 

[GeneZ]

Yes Jesus our savior. Christ the anointing Holy Spirt of the Father not seen.

I would offer not after the Son of man, Jesus (dying flesh and blood) Again after Christ the Father or husband of the bride ..

I think the key is both . Power to understand and perform it to the good pleasure of Christ Jesus the Son of man did the will of the Father with delight some murmur.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputing's:

Its the Kimd of food (daily bread or hidden manna ) that disciples knew not of .

John 4:33-35King James Version33 Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Thank you...
Please, understand.

I was not asking for information about Jesus that pertains to many aspects of His divine being.
I am hoping to reveal how He was manifested at the creation of all things when it says everything
created was created in and through Him.

For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, ​

whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through ​

him and for him." Colossians 1:16​

​

​

​

He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing
was made that has been made." John 1:2-3​

Please, stay on track. The question I am asking?

Why does it say specifically that all things created were made and created "through" Him?
Why, specifically through him? Or, "in Him?"

Why done in and by the Son alone?

Because, like Philippians 2:6-8 tells us. He was able to first make Himself become as a man while in the process!

Why?

So all things created by Him as a man, would be relatable to all men that were to be created!
To do that he dropped His power of Omniscience (like He did when becoming a man).

In that way? He would create all what He wanted us to be without knowing how
all humans would choose when initially created...

In other words? God becoming as a man made himself able not to know who would believe, or not believe,
when the Son to decided how each one of our souls was to be created!

And, in doing so?
He created (designed and purposed) in a manner what He righteously desired to come into existence, all souls to be created.
To be created by the power of God, designed to be having full potential to be fully loving the Father as He has for the Father...

The Father specifically assigned to His Son how all creation was to be created for that reason.
Because, the Son, with His unique ability to be manifesting Himself as a man? It would be protecting
our ability to choose while we had been created....

For if the Son retained being omniscient during the process of designing us? And, not limited Himself to the way
he was being Jesus when He came to earth? It would mean He was knowingly the one who wanted some to be created
for the Lake of Fire. And...

That in itself would have made God's judgment and condemnation of all unbelievers to be a sham...
For it would mean that God is really the guilty one. Purposing all unbelievers to be created to be (by proxy)
his own rejection of Himself!... That would leave God playing with dolls and putting words in their mouths,
not real souls with volition.

That's the key to understanding how God had all men to be created. Created in the mind of Christ.
The Son did not create anyone to be hard wired to accept or reject Him.
For God can not be the author of sin...

Enough for now.. Selah.


grace and peace ........

 

[Mr GLee]

Thank you...
Please, understand.

I was not asking for information about Jesus that pertains to many aspects of His divine being.
I am hoping to reveal how He was manifested at the creation of all things when it says everything
created was created in and through Him.

​

​

For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, ​

whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through ​

him and for him." Colossians 1:16​

​

​

​

He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing ​

was made that has been made." John 1:2-3​

Please, stay on track. The question I am asking?

Why does it say specifically that all things created were made and created "through" Him?
Why, specifically through him? Or, "in Him?"

Why done in and by the Son alone?

Because, like Philippians 2:6-8 tells us. He was able to first make Himself become as a man while in the process!

Why?

So all things created by Him as a man, would be relatable to all men that were to be created!
To do that he dropped His power of Omniscience (like He did when becoming a man).

In that way? He would create all what He wanted us to be without knowing how
all humans would choose when initially created...

In other words? God becoming as a man made himself able not to know who would believe, or not believe,
when the Son to decided how each one of our souls was to be created!

And, in doing so?
He created (designed and purposed) in a manner what He righteously desired to come into existence, all souls to be created.
To be created by the power of God, designed to be having full potential to be fully loving the Father as He has for the Father...

The Father specifically assigned to His Son how all creation was to be created for that reason.
Because, the Son, with His unique ability to be manifesting Himself as a man? It would be protecting
our ability to choose while we had been created....

For if the Son retained being omniscient during the process of designing us? And, not limited Himself to the way
he was being Jesus when He came to earth? It would mean He was knowingly the one who wanted some to be created
for the Lake of Fire. And...

That in itself would have made God's judgment and condemnation of all unbelievers to be a sham...
For it would mean that God is really the guilty one. Purposing all unbelievers to be created to be (by proxy)
his own rejection of Himself!... That would leave God playing with dolls and putting words in their mouths,
not real souls with volition.

That's the key to understanding how God had all men to be created. Created in the mind of Christ.
The Son did not create anyone to be hard wired to accept or reject Him.
For God can not be the author of sin...

Enough for now.. Selah.


grace and peace ........

God is not Jewish man as King of kings.

That's the goal of satin to have mankind believe that eternal God is a dying Jewish man as King of king

Philippians 2:5-8 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ JesusSon of man) Who, being in the form (not God the invisible head) of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:(same character or mind) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form (not God the invisible head)of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: (Likeness not mirror image) And being found in fashion as a man (As, not a man, dying mankind), he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Christ Eternal God cannot die

Jesus is our brother in the Lord. Yoked with Christ the Father . . . whosever does the will of our Father the invisible head are his brother, sister and mother . Jesus said call no man on earth Holy Father

Matthew 12:50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 3:35For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.