The Worship of Images & Popes

[Buff Scott Jr.]

REFORMATION RUMBLINGS
BUFF SCOTT, JR.
____________________

The Worship Of Images & Popes​

The Roman Catholic clergy and their followers will tell you they do not bow down and pray to and worship images, statues, and idols. But according to Catholic history, they do.​

• An image bowed its head to St. John Gaulbert while he kneeled and prayed before it (Butler’s Lives of the Saints, p. 247). Yet Catholics deny they bow before and pray to images, statues, and idols.
  ​
• Catholics deny worshipping the pope. Their own history testifies against them. Kissing of the pope’s foot was done as early as the eighth century and was done as an “act of reverence by which all the faithful do honor him as the Vicar of Christ” (Catholic Ency., Vol. XII, p 270).​

A religious “act of reverence” is the same as an act of worship. Yet Peter, who is alleged by Catholics to have been the first pope, refused to allow Cornelius to bow down to and worship him. He told Cornelius who bowed before him, “Stand up! I am only a man myself” (Acts 10:25-26). The Catholic Bible says, “Stand up! I’m not a god!” Catholic Popes, then, must consider themselves God, as they expect others to bow to them.

Every pope in history has expected others to bow down to them, including Pope John Paul II and others—the exact opposite of what the apostle Peter told Cornelius. Catholics and their clerics dishonor the very Bible they claim to have written by rebelling against its teachings. They do the same by bowing to and worshipping images, statues, and idols. Based on this information, Catholicism resembles paganism more than it does Christianity. But here’s more:​

• There were no statues in Catholic meeting structures prior to 325 A. D. “To avoid even the appearance of idolatry, no statues were placed in the early churches” (Short History of the Catholic Church, p. 65). This translates into the truth that idolatry is prevalent in Catholic Churches today, for statues and images abound.
  ​
• “Though the veneration of images was a gradual growth in the Church—owing to the prevalence of heathen idolatry and the caution required to prevent their use from being misunderstood by the pagans—sculptured memorials of the Blessed Mary are found as early as the third century” (Practical Preaching for Priest and People, pgs. 89-90).​

“Veneration”? Isn’t that the same as “worship”? According to my dictionary, “veneration” is a form of worship. Yet Catholics say they don’t worship images and statues. Their Catholic clerics disagree with them. But if this isn’t enough, they need to get a Catholic Encyclopedia and turn to Vol. VII, p. 667, which reads:

“The whole tradition of venerating holy images gradually and naturally developed.” Again, this was printed with the imprimatur (Latin for “let it be printed”) of Catholic authorities.

At this point, we need to ask: What does God say on the subject of erecting images and idols? I think you will find the answer to this question interesting. “Therefore, watch yourselves very carefully, so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman” (Deut. 4:15-16).​

 

[Illuminator]

​

REFORMATION RUMBLINGS
BUFF SCOTT, JR.
____________________

The Worship Of Images & Popes​

The Roman Catholic clergy and their followers will tell you they do not bow down and pray to and worship images, statues, and idols. But according to Catholic history, they do.​

​

• An image bowed its head to St. John Gaulbert while he kneeled and prayed before it (Butler’s Lives of the Saints, p. 247). Yet Catholics deny they bow before and pray to images, statues, and idols.​
• Catholics deny worshipping the pope. Their own history testifies against them. Kissing of the pope’s foot was done as early as the eighth century and was done as an “act of reverence by which all the faithful do honor him as the Vicar of Christ” (Catholic Ency., Vol. XII, p 270).​

A religious “act of reverence” is the same as an act of worship. Yet Peter, who is alleged by Catholics to have been the first pope, refused to allow Cornelius to bow down to and worship him. He told Cornelius who bowed before him, “Stand up! I am only a man myself” (Acts 10:25-26). The Catholic Bible says, “Stand up! I’m not a god!” Catholic Popes, then, must consider themselves God, as they expect others to bow to them.

Every pope in history has expected others to bow down to them, including Pope John Paul II and others—the exact opposite of what the apostle Peter told Cornelius. Catholics and their clerics dishonor the very Bible they claim to have written by rebelling against its teachings. They do the same by bowing to and worshipping images, statues, and idols. Based on this information, Catholicism resembles paganism more than it does Christianity. But here’s more:​

​

• There were no statues in Catholic meeting structures prior to 325 A. D. “To avoid even the appearance of idolatry, no statues were placed in the early churches” (Short History of the Catholic Church, p. 65). This translates into the truth that idolatry is prevalent in Catholic Churches today, for statues and images abound.​
• “Though the veneration of images was a gradual growth in the Church—owing to the prevalence of heathen idolatry and the caution required to prevent their use from being misunderstood by the pagans—sculptured memorials of the Blessed Mary are found as early as the third century” (Practical Preaching for Priest and People, pgs. 89-90).​

“Veneration”? Isn’t that the same as “worship”? According to my dictionary, “veneration” is a form of worship. Yet Catholics say they don’t worship images and statues. Their Catholic clerics disagree with them. But if this isn’t enough, they need to get a Catholic Encyclopedia and turn to Vol. VII, p. 667, which reads:

“The whole tradition of venerating holy images gradually and naturally developed.” Again, this was printed with the imprimatur (Latin for “let it be printed”) of Catholic authorities.

At this point, we need to ask: What does God say on the subject of erecting images and idols? I think you will find the answer to this question interesting. “Therefore, watch yourselves very carefully, so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman” (Deut. 4:15-16).​

You suffer from anti-Catholic psychosis, and refuse to be reasoned with. Dismantling your hateful rant line by line is a waste of time. You need professional deprogramming, not a forum. Are you a Seventh Day Adventist or a JW? You sound just like them. Or maybe you are a Hislopite. I see the same garbage from them.

 

[donadams]

​

REFORMATION RUMBLINGS
BUFF SCOTT, JR.
____________________

The Worship Of Images & Popes​

The Roman Catholic clergy and their followers will tell you they do not bow down and pray to and worship images, statues, and idols. But according to Catholic history, they do.​

​

• An image bowed its head to St. John Gaulbert while he kneeled and prayed before it (Butler’s Lives of the Saints, p. 247). Yet Catholics deny they bow before and pray to images, statues, and idols.​
• Catholics deny worshipping the pope. Their own history testifies against them. Kissing of the pope’s foot was done as early as the eighth century and was done as an “act of reverence by which all the faithful do honor him as the Vicar of Christ” (Catholic Ency., Vol. XII, p 270).​

A religious “act of reverence” is the same as an act of worship. Yet Peter, who is alleged by Catholics to have been the first pope, refused to allow Cornelius to bow down to and worship him. He told Cornelius who bowed before him, “Stand up! I am only a man myself” (Acts 10:25-26). The Catholic Bible says, “Stand up! I’m not a god!” Catholic Popes, then, must consider themselves God, as they expect others to bow to them.

Every pope in history has expected others to bow down to them, including Pope John Paul II and others—the exact opposite of what the apostle Peter told Cornelius. Catholics and their clerics dishonor the very Bible they claim to have written by rebelling against its teachings. They do the same by bowing to and worshipping images, statues, and idols. Based on this information, Catholicism resembles paganism more than it does Christianity. But here’s more:​

​

• There were no statues in Catholic meeting structures prior to 325 A. D. “To avoid even the appearance of idolatry, no statues were placed in the early churches” (Short History of the Catholic Church, p. 65). This translates into the truth that idolatry is prevalent in Catholic Churches today, for statues and images abound.​
• “Though the veneration of images was a gradual growth in the Church—owing to the prevalence of heathen idolatry and the caution required to prevent their use from being misunderstood by the pagans—sculptured memorials of the Blessed Mary are found as early as the third century” (Practical Preaching for Priest and People, pgs. 89-90).​

“Veneration”? Isn’t that the same as “worship”? According to my dictionary, “veneration” is a form of worship. Yet Catholics say they don’t worship images and statues. Their Catholic clerics disagree with them. But if this isn’t enough, they need to get a Catholic Encyclopedia and turn to Vol. VII, p. 667, which reads:

“The whole tradition of venerating holy images gradually and naturally developed.” Again, this was printed with the imprimatur (Latin for “let it be printed”) of Catholic authorities.

At this point, we need to ask: What does God say on the subject of erecting images and idols? I think you will find the answer to this question interesting. “Therefore, watch yourselves very carefully, so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman” (Deut. 4:15-16).​

God commands them!!!

Brazen serpent

Numbers 21:9
And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

Exodus 25:18
And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.

 

[donadams]

Matt 27:3-10 statuary?

Zechariah 11:13
And the Lord said to me: Cast it to the statuary, a handsome price, that I was prized at by them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and I cast them into the house of the Lord to the statuary.

KJV call it pottery

What statues? Graven images?

Images are not forbidden, such as the cherubim on the ark of the covenant ex 25:18 and the bronze serpent num 21:9 and Jn 3:14 are not forbidden but even commanded, graven or worshiped as a god then these images are forbidden such as the golden calf!

Bowing down or posture does not equal worship or adoration!

Worship requires intent!
You must have the intent to worship God properly!

Worship requires intent, offering of sacrifice, a ordained priesthood, adoration, reparation, thanksgiving, and petition!

Bowing or posture does not equal worship! Kneeling next to your bed to pray is that worshiping your bed?

Genesis 23:12
And Abraham bowed down himself before the people of the land.

Genesis 42:6
And Joseph was the governor over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land: and Joseph's brethren came, and bowed down themselves before him with their faces to the earth.

Bowing a sign of obedience!

Genesis 43:28
And they answered, Thy servant our father is in good health, he is yet alive. And they bowed down their heads, and made obeisance.

1 Kings 1:53
So king Solomon sent, and they brought him down from the altar. And he came and bowed himself to king Solomon: and Solomon said unto him, Go to thine house.

1 Kings 2:19
Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her


If you kneel next to your bed to say your prayers at night are you worshiping your bed? No!

I have been a catholic all my life and I’m 60 and I have never worshiped Mary or the saints or a statute!

Reverence, veneration, love and devotion yes! Worship no!

Imitation of the the life and virtues of the saints! Yes a husband and father should imitate Saint Joseph, his life of godliness and virtue, patience and obedience and faithfulness! The family should imitate the holy family of Nazareth!

Jesus depicted still on the cross?

Gal 3:1
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

1 cor 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

We live in the power of the resurrection but conform to His passion and death till He returns in glory, we share in His suffering.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.


Images commanded by God!

Brazen serpent

Numbers 21:9
And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

Exodus 25:18
And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.

the icon-o-clast heresy was condemned by the holy apostles in the authority of Christ in the seventh century at the second council of Nicea!

 

[donadams]

I assume you believe in the miracle of Elijah?

Old Testament Saints: “yes”
New Testament Saints: “no”

Why not New Testament Saints?

The New Testament has the same God, same almighty power! Lk 1:37

Do you deny that Mary immaculate ever virgin mother of God found you’re salvation? Lk 1:30
Consented to you’re salvation? Lk 1:38


Hebrews 1:14
Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?


2 Corinthians 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.


Rejoicing in heaven when a sinner repents, how do they know?

Heb cloud of witnesses, how do they see?

At the Transfiguration Moses and Elijah “Saints alive”!

God of the living!

Matthew 22:32
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Jn 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Only one mediator?

1 Tim 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;


NOT found in the Bible are..........

“prayer to saints”

1st we don’t pray to saints, our prayers are directed to God (who alone can hear and answer prayer) thru the intercession of the saints rev 5:8 with the ministering angels. Heb 1:14


Jesus Christ is the Head of the church Eph 5:23 the only mediator 1 Tim 2:5 and chief intercessor, makes intercession for the saints! (The church) Rom 8:26-27 8:34 heb 7:25

The saints also make intercession!

1 Timothy 2:1
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

Revelation 5:8
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Revelation 8:3
And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

Revelation 8:4
And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

James 5:16 …The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Jn 11:25 (the saints are alive) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Lk 20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

All generations call me blessed! Lk 1:
Thanksgiving in praise of Mary for bearing our savior! Matt 1:23 And finding our salvation! Lk 1:30

Praise honor veneration and devotion redound to the Glory of God who created Mary immaculate Lk 1:49 as Christ source of all grace! Jn 1:16-17

Praise, honor, veneration, and devotion are not worship, worship requires intent!

Mary all powerful advocate!
Help of Christian’s!

Mary ever virgin, mother of God, is all powerful in her prayers!

Mary’s prayers are all powerful not cos she is God but because her son is God!

and on becoming man He (Jesus) obeyed his own commandments

you might check out the one that says “honor Thy father and mother”

“My hour has not come”

The time set by almighty God for the public ministry of Christ had not come, Jesus Christ still performed the miracle cos his mother interceded, thus a higher law, “honor thy father and mother” if ANYONE else asked it would NOT have been done!
John 2

and cos of her intercession the disciples believed in Him!
Jn 2:11

Jesus said
“My hour has not come” also indicates Mary’s intimate role in salvation history!

When His has come she would be there and very involved!

Luke 2:35
(Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

Jn 19:25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!

27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

 

[donadams]

Jesus depicted still on the cross?

Gal 3:1
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

1 cor 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

We live in the power of the resurrection but conform to His passion and death till He returns in glory, we share in His suffering.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

 

[donadams]

If a man Honors his wife, and asks her to help him, and is Devoted to her, and gives her Veneration he MUST be worshipping her including adoration! Right?

Lk 1:28 says Mary is blessed; does anyone know why?

Lk 1:48 all generations (Christians) shall call me blessed.

What artist is offended by you admiring his masterpiece?

Mary and a God’s masterpiece of grace! Lk 1:49

Praise of Mary and the saints redounds to the glory of God and Christ, cos Mary and the saints are what God made them, it is His handiwork (Lk 1:49 Lk 1:28) and the graces they have come from the merits of Christ’s passion and death.

2 Thessalonians 1:10
When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Thanks

 

[donadams]

If a man Honors his wife, and asks her to help him, and is Devoted to her, and gives her Veneration he MUST be worshipping her including adoration! Right?

Lk 1:28 says Mary is blessed; does anyone know why?

Lk 1:48 all generations (Christians) shall call me blessed.

What artist is offended by you admiring his masterpiece?

Mary and a God’s masterpiece of grace!

Btw

What authority did the reformers have?

What was reformed?

Where does scripture authorize a reformation?
Thanks

 

[Fred]

If a man Honors his wife, and asks her to help him, and is Devoted to her, and gives her Veneration he MUST be worshipping her including adoration! Right?

False.

It is not the same as what Catholics do to saints.
They expect the saints to hear even their silent prayers.

 

[Fred]

“prayer to saints”

1st we don’t pray to saints,

That's a lie.

You address them and expect them to hear your silent words.

 

[Illuminator]

That's a lie.

You address them and expect them to hear your silent words.

Hebrews 12:1 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,

The Greek word martus, from which is derived the English word “martyr.”

1) Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (Joseph H. Thayer, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House, 4th ed., 1977; orig. 1901, 392) defines it — as used in this verse — as follows: “One who is a spectator of anything, e.g. of a contest, Heb 12:1.”

[Strong’s word #3144; similar usages cited by Thayer: Lk 24:48; Acts 1:8; 1:22; 2:32; 3:15; 5:32; 10:39; 13:31; 26:16; 1 Pet 5:1 – the sense is indisputable in these other verses]

2) Word Studies in the New Testament (Marvin R. Vincent, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1980; orig. 1887; vol. 4, 536), another standard Protestant language source, comments on this verse as follows:

‘Witnesses’ does not mean spectators, but those who have borne witness to the truth, as those enumerated in chapter 11. Yet the idea of spectators is implied, and is really the principal idea. The writer’s picture is that of an arena in which the Christians whom he addresses are contending in a race, while the vast host of the heroes of faith who, after having borne witness to the truth, have entered into their heavenly rest, watches the contest from the encircling tiers of the arena, compassing and overhanging it like a cloud, filled with lively interest and sympathy, and lending heavenly aid.

3) Word Pictures in the New Testament (A. T. Robertson [Baptist], Nashville, Tennessee: Broadman Press, 1932, vol. 5, 432), comments:

‘Cloud of witnesses’ (nephos marturon . . . The metaphor refers to the great amphitheatre with the arena for the runners and the tiers upon tiers of seats rising up like a cloud. The martures here are not mere spectators (theatai), but testifiers (witnesses) who testify from their own experience (11:2,4-5, 33, 39) to God’s fulfilling promises as shown in chapter 11.

[Note that the notion of “spectators” is the primary metaphor — the arena — so that both meanings: that of spectators and witnesses in the sense of example are present. Neither can be ruled out]

4) Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, (ed. Gerhard Kittel & Gerhard Friedrich; tr. and abridged by Geoffrey W. Bromiley, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1985; 567), an impeccable and widely-used linguistic (non-Catholic) source, states: “In Heb. 12:1 the witnesses watching the race seem to be confessing witnesses (cf. 11:2), but this does not exclude the element of factual witness.”

So our four non-Catholic language references all confirm that the element of “spectatorship,” which lends itself to the Catholic notion of communion of saints, where saints in heaven are aware of, and observe events on earth, is present in Hebrews 12:1, and cannot be ruled out by any means, on the basis of a doctrinal bias.
source

 

[Fred]

In Heb. 12:1 the witnesses watching the race seem to be confessing witnesses (cf. 11:2), but this does not exclude the element of factual witness.”

So our four non-Catholic language references all confirm that the element of “spectatorship,” which lends itself to the Catholic notion of communion of saints, where saints in heaven are aware of, and observe events on earth, is present in Hebrews 12:1, and cannot be ruled out by any means, on the basis of a doctrinal bias.
source

Nothing teaches a believer is to pray to those who departed.
You hope it is found in there, but it is a false hope.

 

[Buff Scott Jr.]

Matt 27:3-10 statuary?

Zechariah 11:13
And the Lord said to me: Cast it to the statuary, a handsome price, that I was prized at by them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and I cast them into the house of the Lord to the statuary.

KJV call it pottery

What statues? Graven images?

Images are not forbidden, such as the cherubim on the ark of the covenant ex 25:18 and the bronze serpent num 21:9 and Jn 3:14 are not forbidden but even commanded, graven or worshiped as a god then these images are forbidden such as the golden calf!

Bowing down or posture does not equal worship or adoration!

Worship requires intent!
You must have the intent to worship God properly!

Worship requires intent, offering of sacrifice, a ordained priesthood, adoration, reparation, thanksgiving, and petition!

Bowing or posture does not equal worship! Kneeling next to your bed to pray is that worshiping your bed?

Genesis 23:12
And Abraham bowed down himself before the people of the land.

Genesis 42:6
And Joseph was the governor over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land: and Joseph's brethren came, and bowed down themselves before him with their faces to the earth.

Bowing a sign of obedience!

Genesis 43:28
And they answered, Thy servant our father is in good health, he is yet alive. And they bowed down their heads, and made obeisance.

1 Kings 1:53
So king Solomon sent, and they brought him down from the altar. And he came and bowed himself to king Solomon: and Solomon said unto him, Go to thine house.

1 Kings 2:19
Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her


If you kneel next to your bed to say your prayers at night are you worshiping your bed? No!

I have been a catholic all my life and I’m 60 and I have never worshiped Mary or the saints or a statute!

Reverence, veneration, love and devotion yes! Worship no!

Imitation of the the life and virtues of the saints! Yes a husband and father should imitate Saint Joseph, his life of godliness and virtue, patience and obedience and faithfulness! The family should imitate the holy family of Nazareth!

Jesus depicted still on the cross?

Gal 3:1
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

1 cor 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

We live in the power of the resurrection but conform to His passion and death till He returns in glory, we share in His suffering.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.


Images commanded by God!

Brazen serpent

Numbers 21:9
And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

Exodus 25:18
And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.

the icon-o-clast heresy was condemned by the holy apostles in the authority of Christ in the seventh century at the second council of Nicea!

Donadams:

Regarding images and idols, please read my latest to Illuminator on Catholicism. Thanks.

Illuminator​

 

[donadams]

What forum? What thread?
Thanks

 

[Buff Scott Jr.]

What forum? What thread?
Thanks

"My Extensive Research on Roman Catholicism"

 

[donadams]

"My Extensive Research on Roman Catholicism"

Where?

 

[Buff Scott Jr.]

Under Theology Questions. Or click on...

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/my-extensive-research-on-roman-catholicism.890/

Buff

 

[Illuminator]

Considering iconoclasm itself, there ain’t much. The Muslims picked up their iconoclasm from Monophysites and other heretics who had adopted that false notion. Calvinists later picked up the same motifs and revived them.

1) Muslims smash statues and crosses because they don’t believe an image can represent God or bring His actions to mind.
2) Calvinists smashed statues and crosses (and don’t have statues in their churches or crucifixes) because they don’t believe an image can represent God or bring His actions to mind.

Not much difference there that I can see. The immediate rationale is the same. I have talked to Calvinists today who think that crosses are idols. I wrote a paper about it: “Calvin, Zwingli, and Bullinger Regarded Statues of Christ and Crucifixes as Idols (Calvin Also Rejected Bare Crosses)”.

Calvin also thought musical instruments in church were idols (this is why Calvinists smashed organs; fortunately Bach was a Lutheran).

Destroying Christ’s reputation was not the Protestant agenda.

Correct. They only went after statues or stained glass that portrayed our Lord, who is the “icon of the invisible God”, and crucifixes that recall to mind what He did for all of us, so that we can be saved. For these guys, those were bad things, and that is wickedness: calling good evil.

Not as wicked as killing people who differed from you.

No kidding. No one is saying it was. That was never the topic of this thread (which is iconoclasm).

Dialogue on Jihadist & 16th Century Calvinist Iconoclasm (vs. David Scott)

The early Calvinist lovers of iconoclasm smashed stained glass, statues (including of Jesus), crucifixes, even organs, ridiculously whitewashed walls . . .

www.patheos.com

 

[Buff Scott Jr.]

Where?

Illuminator:

Remove your sun glasses. They might be interfering with your ability to "read between the lines!"

 

[Buff Scott Jr.]

Sorry, I'm getting my responders mixed up, as in this case.