The Unchangeableness of God and the Will of God

[Kermos]

No Word of God states man was imparted a free-will to choose toward God, but here is the Word of God which clearly states man does not choose God to any degree!

The gracious Benefactor of us Christians exclusively produces

1. divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19)
   AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Ephesians “Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love” (Ephesians 1:3-4)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God
2. beneficiaries’ faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστις pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
   “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians “by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work” (Ephesians 2:8-10)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for Peter declared “God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith” (Acts 15:8-9)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God
3. beneficiaries’ fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Philippians “being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God” (Philippians 1:11)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God
4. beneficiaries’ birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) as well as “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:5-8)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God
5. beneficiaries’ repent by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25)
   AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus’ words with thier saying, “Well then, God has given to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (Acts 11:18)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward)
6. beneficiaries’ love by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34)
   AND John is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7, see the phrase “love is from God” meaning God is the source of true love)
   AND John expands with his writing of “God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 John 4:16, see the phrase “one who abides in Love” is equivocated with “one who abides” “in God” which extends from God’s exclusivity with “God is Love”)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God

And here we have the Truth (John 14:6), the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14)!

 

[Josheb]

I addressed your question in post #3.

You believe God has a "free will",

To say otherwise would mean God does not have an uncontrolled volition.

and you believe God created man with a free-will like God's "free will"

I do not, and never said any such thing. You are wrong. repeatedly wrong, bearing false witness, and refusing to correct your mistake.

, and the antithesis of "free" is "captive",

No, not quite, but if we use that definition then to deny God having free will is to say God's will is captive. You've contradicted yourself if there is only thesis and antithesis and those two options are the only ones that can be applied to God.

so, by extension of your use of "free", you believe there is some other god that can take God captive.

Quote me doing so.

And here we have the Truth (John 14:6), the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14), His vessels of mercy (Romans 9:21-23)!

Nice abuse of scripture.

 

[LeviR]

@Kermos
As I understand it, free will refers to the ability to choose whatsoever one desires.

However, the word “free” requires an opposite like “bondage”.

For someone to be in bondage implies that something is restraining them.

In the Bible, the bondage people are under is the law. So the law is the restraining agent that restricts free will or limits the desires to consequences.

 

[Arial]

In the Bible, the bondage people are under is the law. So the law is the restraining agent that restricts free will or limits the desires to consequences.

In the Bible and out here in the real world too, the bondage people are under is sin, slaves of the kingdom of darkness.

Col 1:13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

 

[LeviR]

In the Bible and out here in the real world too, the bondage people are under is sin, slaves of the kingdom of darkness.

Col 1:13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Sin is the transgression of the law. 1 John 3:4
In the Bible and in the real world.
The Jews are in bondage to the law. Freedom from that bondage comes by faith and not by works of the law.

 

[LeviR]

God has also ordained that the Gentiles also have laws. No law no order.
The law is meant to restrain man from doing whatsoever he wills.
So man is not free to do whatever he desires without consequences.
Consequences are meant as a deterrent to control man.
Man must learn to control himself. If not he will bring upon himself and others great misery.
The world of man brings enough misery upon us all that adding more is to be a part of the problem.
Without faith it is impossible to please God. We first must believe that He exists and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

 

[LeviR]

Free will does not apply to God-fearing servants.

 

[David Lamb]

In the Bible and out here in the real world too, the bondage people are under is sin, slaves of the kingdom of darkness.

Col 1:13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Isn't the bible part of the real world, in your view?

 

[Mr GLee]

Isn't the bible part of the real world, in your view?

I would think the light of the real world .Hidden from children of darkness.

 

[Arial]

Isn't the bible part of the real world, in your view?

Of course it is. I was making a point. But the Bible itself is a book and we see everything it declares about mankind played out in the world and ourselves.

 

[Kermos]

Shirely U. Jest by quoting Rom 8:20, which reads:

Rom 8:20
20 For the creation (nature) was subjected to frailty (to futility, condemned to frustration), not because of some intentional fault on its part, but by the will of Him Who so subjected it — [yet] with the hope [Eccl 1:2.]
AMP

Or

Rom 8:20-21
20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
NIV

Or

Rom 8:20-22
20 Against its will, everything on earth was subjected to God's curse. 21 All creation anticipates the day when it will join God's children in glorious freedom from death and decay. 22 For we know that all creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
NLT

And you think Paul here is talking strictly about Adam's will!? Talk about desperate grasping of straws! Clearly Paul is personalizing the entire created order -- in fact to be more precise -- the entire created order that was cursed by God after Adam freely chose to disobey God. The context makes this abundantly clear. This cursed world (which did not will itself be cursed) is eagerly awaiting to be restored, which will happen at the Parousia when all God's saints will be resurrected.

You ask "And you think Paul here is talking strictly about Adam's will!?", and I answer "no" because Adam's will is one aspect of more than one aspect addressed by Paul in Romans 8:20-22.

God exposed Adam to God's command "Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying" (Genesis 2:16-17), then about 4 millennia later, the Apostle Paul wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, NASB); therefore, Adam did not make a choice, not a willing choice, to eat which the eating directly resulted in the futility of dying.

And you still haven't explained your "host" theory. And you haven't answered my question about God's free moral agency. If God's will is not free then this must mean it's contingent on someone or something. And just who or what would that be exactly?

You, Rufus, are the host of your self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10). Your self-will is not free fom you, so you do not have a free-will

God is the host of God's will. The will of God is not free from God, so God does not have a free-will, but your application of "the free-will of God" means that you believe someone or something is mightier than Almighty God. So, Rufus, just who or what would you believe is mightier than Almighty God that your heart's treasure (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21) free-will of God is free from?

And here we have the Truth (John 14:6), the love of Christ controls the will of us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14, Philippians 2:13), His vessels of mercy (Romans 9:21-23)!